im building an n scale layout that is 30 x 96. i dont have enough room for a turntable in my frieght yard. what other ways are there to turn a train around?
thanks
A Wye Track, a Balloon(also known as a reverse loop) Track or the 0-5-0, also known as the Big Hand of God method. Be aware that anything that will change the direction of the train(except the turntable, that you don't have room for) will also cause a short circuit, if using DCC, you can use a reverse loop circuit module. In DC a simple DPDT(Double Pole Double Throw) toggle switch will work, but the reversing section has to be an isolated block, with the DPDT switch controling it's polarity, and must be switched while the train is(any powered units) completely in the isolated reversing section. a reverse loop in DC sounds more confusing at first than it really is, and after a while you become used to using it.
Doug
May your flanges always stay BETWEEN the rails
The only choices are a truntable or a wye track - both will take up space - or picking the loco up and turning it around. Why not just run the locos forwards and backwards in the same orientation? I see this happening all the time in freight yards. You would then perhaps want to have a parallel passing track for the loco to run around the rolling stock. This also happens all the time on passenger trains when they reach their terminus.
Alan
i think ill just leave them running in the same orentation. i think thats my best bet. thanks for all the help
sal
spassalaqua i think ill just leave them running in the same orentation. i think thats my best bet. thanks for all the help sal
If you are running diesels, run two or more together with the end units facing opposite directions, then to "Turn" your locomotives you only need a run around track to get past the train that it came in with.
hardcoalcaseAnother option is the use of a cassette, which is a section of track mounted on a block where a loco or an entire train can enter the cassette and be manually turned or stored off-layout for staging.
In a fiddle yard, a British expression for a staging yard where the operator actually moves the engines and cars around without using a switcher locomotive or otherwise pretending to be what you'd see on the prototype, an engine runs off the end of a track onto a cassette or piece of track mounted on a board, and simply turned around. Some fiddle yards feature a shiny 'white board" surface and the board has felt mounted on the bottom, like a black board eraser, so it skates around with ease. This also means the engine can be both turned and placed on a differen track. Electrical contacts power the cassette or board when it is mated to the tracks.
Dave Nelson
A turntable only needs to take up as much space as the turntable itself. One track leading to it, engine on, turn it, engine off going the other direction. Doesn't have to have a roundhouse or other tracks. Actually it would take much less space than either a wye or reverse loop. You do need a passing siding of some sort to get the engine back to the other end of the train.
Have fun,
challenger3980n DC a simple DPDT(Double Pole Double Throw) toggle switch will work, but the reversing section has to be an isolated block, with the DPDT switch controling it's polarity, and must be switched while the train is(any powered units) completely in the isolated reversing section.
That won't work as stated. The reverse loop is certainly isolated, but you need to add two DPDT switches. One for the mainline, and one for the reverse loop. The reversing switch on the power pack is NOT used. The reverse loop track polarity is aligned with the mainline using the reverse loop DPDT switch. Once the train has entered the loop, the mainline DPDT is thrown. Then the train can exit the reverse loop with the track polarity properly aligned.
Once you get used to it, it's an easy procedure.
The OP should be aware, however, that reverse loops and wyes are land-hogs. His best bet, I would think, would be the "fiddle yard" suggested above.
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Gary M. Collins gmcrailgNOSPAM@gmail.com
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"Common Sense, Ain't!" -- G. M. Collins
http://fhn.site90.net
gmcrail The reverse loop is certainly isolated, but you need to add two DPDT switches. One for the mainline, and one for the reverse loop. The reversing switch on the power pack is NOT used. The reverse loop track polarity is aligned with the mainline using the reverse loop DPDT switch. Once the train has entered the loop, the mainline DPDT is thrown. Then the train can exit the reverse loop with the track polarity properly aligned.
The reverse loop is certainly isolated, but you need to add two DPDT switches. One for the mainline, and one for the reverse loop. The reversing switch on the power pack is NOT used. The reverse loop track polarity is aligned with the mainline using the reverse loop DPDT switch. Once the train has entered the loop, the mainline DPDT is thrown. Then the train can exit the reverse loop with the track polarity properly aligned.
That method will work if there is only one block controlling the non-reverse-loop remainder of the railroad and if only one train/locomotive is operated at a time. On the typical DC layout with multiple trains and multiple blocks, the reversing section needs a polarity-reversing switch (DPDT switch works well) and the direction switch on the tran's throttle needs to be reversed too. One doesn't reverse the remainder of the layout if one expects to operate multiple trains at the same time.
Mark
With DCC, you get an auto reverse circuit, put in a reversing section (isolating enough track to accommodated your longest locomotive lash up and then some) then you wire it up and forget about it. It works on a reversing loop, or a wye track.
Here's a look at my wye junction which can serve the purpose you speak of...
The whole area (n scale) occupies about 4 square feet...
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
With the dimensions you've listed, I assume that you're going for a loop.
So, add a few staging tracks (use the fiddle yard method) behind a hill or backdrop for through traffic. Occasionally, the through trains can set out cars for a local at the yard. The local's locomotive has no real need to be oriented if it is a small turn, so send it out with the train and have it run backwards into the yard on the return trip.
The Narrow Gauge Man
In passenger operations, a turntable was sometimes used to turn a diner, observation, or any car that needed to be facing a particular way.
While a turntable uses the smallest amount of real estate (compared to a wye or a loop), it imposes limits on the length of cars or locos than can be turned. Turntables tended to be too short for newer generations of equipment, which can create interesting operating problems.
markpiercegmcrail The reverse loop is certainly isolated, but you need to add two DPDT switches. One for the mainline, and one for the reverse loop. The reversing switch on the power pack is NOT used. The reverse loop track polarity is aligned with the mainline using the reverse loop DPDT switch. Once the train has entered the loop, the mainline DPDT is thrown. Then the train can exit the reverse loop with the track polarity properly aligned. That method will work if there is only one block controlling the non-reverse-loop remainder of the railroad and if only one train/locomotive is operated at a time. On the typical DC layout with multiple trains and multiple blocks, the reversing section needs a polarity-reversing switch (DPDT switch works well) and the direction switch on the tran's throttle needs to be reversed too. One doesn't reverse the remainder of the layout if one expects to operate multiple trains at the same time. Mark
I'm sorry Mark - I may not have been clear on that. I was thinking of a situation where you were running off a power pack. If you are running multiple trains at one time, there would be one DPDT control switch on the panel for the reversing loop/block, and a DPDT in each cab for normal train direction. The biggest factor is that the reversing section cannot be powered through the DPDT switch for the non-reversing block(s) in each cab. Directional switching within the reversing sec/block/loop must be handled by the independent DPDT for the reverse loop/block/section. If each cab is using a normal power pack, you must add another DPDT switch for reversing train travel direction in the non-reverse part of the layout, and NOT use the built-in direction switch on the power pack.
And obviously only the approach (or exit) block to the reverse "area" (easier than typing "loop/block/section" every time ) need be reversed (or polarity-pmatched) while the train is in the reverse area.
It's a lot more complicated to describe than to do, believe me. If I can find it, I'll be happy to post a circuit diagram...
If all you need to do is send a freight train back the way it came, you only need a run-around track in the freight yard. The train comes in and pulls onto the arrival track, the loco cuts off and pulls ahead, backs around the train on a siding with turnouts at both ends, rejoins the arrival track at the other end (the arrival track is now the departure track) and re-couples to the train. It is facing the other way, but we assume it can run in reverse as easily as forward. If you are in the modern era, no need to move a caboose; if you use a caboose, a few extra moves and the caboose can be on the other end, too.
Another idea -
Orient the yard as a stub yard with the tracks leading up to the edge. Make a wood plank with track on it as a form of staging (able to be attatched to the yard tracks). Run the train on it, unplug the track bus, turn the board around, and plug the track bus back in on the other side. Automatic polarity reversing, not so automatic turning, and cheap!
Atlas makes a switch just for that purpose. Check out Atlas part #150210, Twin Connector. I installed a loop in my layout and used it. Directions are included, it has two buttons to be moved, in my case it was a bit confusing at first, but with a little practice, no problem. Try it, you'll like it!
SFBill
There is another way to turn an engine and several cars...used mainly on micro layouts. Basically one uses a long sector plate with a slotted pivoting point. You don't know what a 'sector plate' or 'pivoting point' is? Check out Carl Arendt's fantastic micro layout website...the answer to your question just might be hiding somewhere there: http://www.carendt.com/index.html To be accurate this method of rotation would probably only work for an engine and, maybe, two cars. We also make great use of cassettes as mentioned above.
BTW: I am a micro layout affectionado and refer to Carl's website frequently. There is surely something on the site for everyone.
Cheers,
Ray
"Keeping my hand on the throttle...and my eyes on rail."
I can't believe that nobody has mentioned the runaround method.
Although the entire train is not turned around, the locomotive is placed at the head of the train so that it can move out of town.
the track consists of a left turnout, a right turnout, and a length of track.
It is essencially a siding that has turnouts on both ends.
Careful planning must be made, Knowing the length of the longest train you plan to run is a must.
That length, plus 5 cars is the length of the siding.
the track looks like this:
-------\--------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------/---------
the left slash - RH turnout
the right slash - LH turnout
distance between the verticle lines - length of train
the train is run on the top set of tracks and is parked. the locomotives pass through the turnout, the turnout is thrown, and the locomotive passes the entire train. the locomotive moves through the turnout on the left, backs up and couples with the rear of the train.
anthonykaz I can't believe that nobody has mentioned the runaround method. Although the entire train is not turned around, the locomotive is placed at the head of the train so that it can move out of town. the track consists of a left turnout, a right turnout, and a length of track. It is essencially a siding that has turnouts on both ends. Careful planning must be made, Knowing the length of the longest train you plan to run is a must. That length, plus 5 cars is the length of the siding. the track looks like this: -------\--------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------/--------- the left slash - RH turnout the right slash - LH turnout distance between the verticle lines - length of train the train is run on the top set of tracks and is parked. the locomotives pass through the turnout, the turnout is thrown, and the locomotive passes the entire train. the locomotive moves through the turnout on the left, backs up and couples with the rear of the train.
Umm, at least three of us did mention run around tracks, Alanproctor in the second reply, myself in the fifth reply and robt livingston near the bottom of the first page all mentioned using a runaround track.