Again, good point.
Another way to do this depends on the pulling ability of your locos. A switcher may only be able to pull 10 cars. some GP's only pull about a dozen cars. A pair of GP's may be able to pull more.
The best haulers tend to be first generation cab units. A set of ABBA EMD F's or Alco FA's pull a lot.A pair of PA's or E's will pull a bunch of passenger cars or a nice set of reefers. Having that extra weight in the carbody makes a difference compared to the lighter GP or SD type units. I'd have to compare the wheelbase to see if a GP40 would outpull a GP7.
Having Bullfrog Snot on one axle may be the magic stuff that allows better adhesion of model locos to the rail. The trick is to have something holding the rail & still allows plenty of electrical contact. Having a bit of the metal frame removed to put in a DCC chip appears to cut pulling ability of newer locos.
My train lengths were determined by two somewhat complementary considerations - complementary since the second drove the first:
The practical train length is two locomotives and twenty four-wheel cars, including brake van. If the train includes bogie stock, the length remains the same but the car count goes down accordingly.
Everything on the railroad is sized to accept this standard, from yard lead to classification tracks to lengths of the high platforms used by passengers. If somebody who has visited the Upper Kiso Valley ever sees my (to be) completed layout, he'll feel right at home.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
kcole4001 ... one should design the layout with desired train length and operation style in mind from the outset to get maximum enjoyment out of it. All of these factors affect each other to varying degrees.
... one should design the layout with desired train length and operation style in mind from the outset to get maximum enjoyment out of it. All of these factors affect each other to varying degrees.
Agreed. One must compromise the desire for longer train length with all the other competing factors such as space available, number of towns, radius of curves, steepness of grades, ad nauseum. If these factors are not properly weighed for the individual, the resulting layout will not optimize the owner's enjoyment.
Looks like my next layout will be bedroom sized. It will be around the walls with a "dreaded" crawl under and viewed/operated from inside so no more than half of the layout will be viewable at a given moment (an advantage). I wanted most mainline trains at least 20 cars long and others about half that to satisfy my train-length "need." For various reasons, the layout is to consist of a continuous mainline and a point-to-point branchline, with the minimum radius of 30-inches-plus to enable operation of locomotives and rolling stock on hand (up to Yellowstone-sized locomotives and full-length passenger cars).
Here is the current schematic of the track plan:
Accomplishing this required some severe but acceptable compromises. The most serious limitation/compromise was to limit the number of towns to two: one on the mainline, plus the branchline terminus.
The only visible mainline is the town. It is 360-degrees "long" (about 30 feet), with the passing siding about 200-degrees (about 17 feet). The remainder of the mainline consists of hidden staging staging track. Thus, there is no problem of long trains on the mainline occupying more than one town because there is only one. It accommodates trains longer than the operator's view. Staging tracks are each long enough to accommodate one full-length mainline train or two short-length/branchline trains.
The branchline terminus is at the end of a long track (perhaps 40 feet). It is on a separate upper deck, and it is rather elongated at about 20 feet long. I like long/linear towns a lot! I'd rather have two "manly" towns than a larger number of "girlie" towns (thank you, Governor). The planned 8-to-10-car-length branchline trains were in mind when planning the grades (up to 3+ percent), switchback tail lengths, and capacity of the terminus.
Mainline trains will largely consist of through trains, with an occasional cut of cars to be dropped off for local switching by other trains. An occasional local freight will be a "turn": arriving from staging, doing local switching at the town, and then reversing itself to return from where it came.
Operations focus on the branchline trains. They too originate and eventually terminate at mainline staging, thus they travel a great distance. The two towns are far apart, and with the two switchbacks, the run is a long one.
That's my story, anyway.
Mark
Alex
tomikawaTT If somebody who has visited the Upper Kiso Valley ever sees my (to be) completed layout, he'll feel right at home.
If somebody who has visited the Upper Kiso Valley ever sees my (to be) completed layout, he'll feel right at home.
Chuck, when do we get to see some pictures of the layout or close-ups of your custom trackwork? Please don't wait for it to be completed.
I model a modern shortline, with a pair of units on every road freight...and my sidings can fit 8 cars and two engines!
cmrproducts This begs another question - With these long trains - how many towns is the train in at one time (is the engine chasing the caboose)? Like what was stated above the layout must be really large to get 2 or 3 train lengths between towns. And doing switching (block drops or individual cars) must be real fun if it is in more than one town at a time (you could do your whole train switching at one time ;-) Bob H - Clarion, PA You lost me on the towns at one time, my concept was : Smithville at one point and 26 miles away is Jonesville (these are real actual miles) now to put that distance on a layout is far too big, so on the layout the towns are closer together so you could not make a consist of 40 cars as the train is longer than the scale distance, It seems by a lot of the other replies the length of trains is governed by the length of the pull-off sidings, true???
This begs another question -
With these long trains - how many towns is the train in at one time (is the engine chasing the caboose)?
Like what was stated above the layout must be really large to get 2 or 3 train lengths between towns.
And doing switching (block drops or individual cars) must be real fun if it is in more than one town at a time (you could do your whole train switching at one time ;-)
Bob H - Clarion, PA
You lost me on the towns at one time, my concept was : Smithville at one point and 26 miles away is Jonesville (these are real actual miles) now to put that distance on a layout is far too big, so on the layout the towns are closer together so you could not make a consist of 40 cars as the train is longer than the scale distance, It seems by a lot of the other replies the length of trains is governed by the length of the pull-off sidings, true???
Redesigning my N scale layout. It will have 12 25 foot staging tracks at 26". Main line will be on 2 levels with a length of over 200 feet. Passing sidings will be 10 feet which will dictate the number of cars on the train. I will also run extra long trains that will hold the main as it moves just to make things interesting.
It really depends on your operating preferences.
In my case I'm the sole operator, I'm planning on a meet between a continous run passenger train and a branchline freight turn, so the freight needs to fit into the sidings, as the passenger train obviously has right of way.
I can run longer freights, from staging, through on the main and drop off cuts for the branchline, then continue on into staging, since I don't plan on having a meet scheduled there.
If you'll have two trains meet at any time, ONE of them better be able to fit into a siding somewhere, obviously.
On my last layout I had a continuous run main line , and I wanted to try a fifty car train. THe engine could pull the train, nothing came off the track, but the caboose ended up just ahead of the locomotive. Boy, did that look stupid.
my layout is 30 x 20 320 ft mainline i have run 100 car trains...HOWEVER.... i find it is a little foolish to do so i find that with a 10 car train there is a chance of a derailment with a 20 car train the chance doubles etc so running very long trains can result in failure i like to keep my trains to only 30 cars and maybe around 15 when others are operating
the type of cars are important too i have a auto train 8x articulated cars and 17 x 89 foot cars they run very good together HOWEVER if i was to mix short cars with long cars the chance of a problem increased.... HAZARD X RISK = OUTCOME
My layout is so small.(HO,6ft x 9ft) Only 3 or 4 cars available.
However it has one reverse and one wye.
So, continuous opeation is possible. It is very fun!
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I do not have a permanent layout but rather one that can be set up in about 45 mins to an hour. I have 18" radius curves and about 60 feet of track which makes up my one and only mainline. I usually will run two full trains on that main line.
My first train is an intermodal train with two Norfolk Southern Diesels out front (C44-9W and SD 70M) pulling about 20 cars (9 53' wells and 9 to 12 48' well cars)
My other train is around 25 cars which is a mixed freight pulled again by two locos AC4400 CSX and a B23 Sanfa Fe.
Could you guys clarify what you mean by passing sidings, I am little hazy as what this means.
Thanks
Will
A passing siding is a siding off of the mainline to accomodate an entire train. One train enters the siding and parks there while waiting another train to pass by. The dispatch center controls the movements of this operation.
Hope this helps.
Scale and layout size are important considerations. Not only does it affect the number and size of towns or passing sidings, it also affects how large a train actually looks "right". A 20 car train on an HO 4x8 layout would end up taking up half the layout by itself and would look pretty dumb, but on a larger full basement or club layout, a 20 car train looks right at home. At my club layout, which is quite large with long sidings, a large yard and long distances between sidings, our locals run anywhere from 1 or 2 to 20 cars, and mainline trains anywhere from 20-45 cars. The layout is large enough that a 40 car train does not overwhelm the scene and looks "right" in proportion to the layout. Mainline sidings are designed around a 45-50 car train to fit all mainline trains. We're hoping that we will be able to squeeze 50 cars out of our shortest (mainline) siding, which hasn't been built yet, but will be soon. The two sidings on our branchline will hold a train of about 20 normal sized cars. (+ caboose and 2 engines)
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
My last layout was a dogbone built in a "J" shape. The lower level staging was at the top left of the upper cross piece of the "J" it emerged to run along the 25 foot wall on the right and then across the opposite wall to a penninsula rising gradually as it went and interweaving with the lower level to look like it was two railroads competing for the same space. It ended back on top of the starting staging yards with a ballon and a huge pasenger terminal over 12 feet long. It appeared to be a double track road all the way but actually it was one continous loop of track over 280 feet of mainline running divided into 7 40 foot blocks for signalling purposes,
I kept freight trains to 50 cars pulled by ABBA diesel lashups so that a train stopped at a red board wouild not tie up the following block as well. I had a short stopping block preceding each signal to prevent real end collisions. I was able to easily run 5 trains at once, hands off. Minimum radius was 30 inches so running long trains was not a problem,
As I have modeled the Spiral Tunnels and squeezed them into a 12' X 18' room in HO scale and to get the desired effect of the train passing over itself, I typically run 15 to 20 cars but I have run as many as 38 using 3 - AC4400's to haul the load up the 4.25% grade. I will try more cars once I add a couple more Loco's and have time to speed match them to the other AC4400's.
I only run a 3x6 continuous loop in N scale, but I can go up to 22 regular sized cars before its too long, that is having the engines almost at the rear of the train.I also have an intermodal train that is just as long but with less cars, still looks convincing.