Hello.
I have some old Tyco boxcars and gondolas. Can these be upgraded to NMRA standards?
Change couplers? Change trucks etc.? I know, embarrassing, I just hate not to use them.
-Ron
Sure. I have a lot of old Tyco / Mantua equipment.
I guess these are probably equipped with old horn-hook couplers, mounted on the trucks. If they're like most of mine, the trucks are pretty solid, and it would be hard to remove the axles to replace the wheels. I usually take a Dremel with a cutting disk, and carefully cut off the coupler mount, taking care not to cut the wheels while doing this.
Then I use a Kadee #5 or #58 coupler and a Kadee draft gear box. I position the box on the car, and mark the center point of the mounting hole. I drill a small hole, and tap it for a 2-56 screw. Then I screw the whole thing together, repeat at the other end, and replace the trucks.
Alternately, you could glue the draft gear box on the car. I've done that on some where a screw would not be practical. So far, so good with those.
You can upgrade the trucks, too, if you'd like. If you want metal wheelsets, as many do, that will probably be necessary because the old Tyco trucks were very stiff, and they would be hard to twist enough to remove the old wheelsets and replace them. I'm still using the old wheels with mine.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
rcato Hello. I have some old Tyco boxcars and gondolas. Can these be upgraded to NMRA standards? Change couplers? Change trucks etc.? I know, embarrassing, I just hate not to use them. -Ron
The problem is there are many eras of Tyco cars. Do they have metal or plastic underframes? Do they have metal or plastic frame trucks? If plastic frame trucks, do the wheelsets have metal axles or are the wheels and axles a one piece plastic casting? How are the trucks mounted, screw or plastic pin? All these will determine what is necessary to convert them. Some of them were good models and tracked well. The decision "are they worth it" is really yours in the end.
Whether to convert them from talgo to body mount couplers has more to do with your minimum radius and how you intend to operate them. The one misleading thing is that there is no NMRA standard coupler, most modellers go with the Kadee brand as an ad-hoc standard.
Every one I have seen is all PLASTIC PLASTIC PLASTIC
If you want to change to metal wheels, you can pry the trucks out with a screwdriver. Drill out the hole, glue a piece of styrene tubing into the hole. When the glue sets, drill and tap the hole in the styrene for a screw; then install the new trucks. Check the height with a Kadee coupler height gage, glue in a styrene shim and install a Kadee coupler box for your body mounted coupler.
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
In my experience it is often easier to convert a Tyco freight car -- thinking specifically of their rather nice flat car with the wood deck plastic casting separate from the car casting -- to proper standards by discarding the "talgo" (coupler attached to truck) trucks entirely, plugging the bolster hole with plastic, drilling a new hole for a new truck, and slicing away some plastic on the frame to install a Kadee #5 coupler draft gear box. I think that flat car is one of the nicer Tyco offerings.
The Mantua kits from from the late 1950s and early 1960s by contrast used a proprietary truck and bolster arrangement that is considerably more intricate to change over. For a brief while it was possible to buy wheel/axle combinations with RP25 flanges that fit OK into the unusual Mantua truck bearings so that the Mantua truck could be used, with the talgo coupler part being snipped away. For box cars and reefers I used small screws to secure the Kadee #5 coupler draft gear box.
If I recall correctly when I could no longer get the wheel axle combinations that actually fit into the Mantua trucks, I ended up slicing the original bolster* away entirely and started fresh.
Dave Nelson
*Addendum to post: the Mantua kits of which I speak had cast metal underframes.
G Paine Every one I have seen is all PLASTIC PLASTIC PLASTIC If you want to change to metal wheels, you can pry the trucks out with a screwdriver. Drill out the hole, glue a piece of styrene tubing into the hole. When the glue sets, drill and tap the hole in the styrene for a screw; then install the new trucks. Check the height with a Kadee coupler height gage, glue in a styrene shim and install a Kadee coupler box for your body mounted coupler.
Then you've only seen the ones made since the mid 70's. The Tyco and Mantua names have been around since the late 40's or early 50's.
I have a couple I upgraded , I keep them more for the memories than anything although I do have a strange tradition involving one tyco car in particular . Anytime I put down new track or build a new layout I use a Tyco 50ft Santa Fe box car to test the track . I hook it to an engine and push it and pull it on the new track . I am not sure why I do this but it has been a tradition for nearly 20 years now.
I have quite a few I've converted. Cut the truck mounted coupler box off the trucks and mount Kadee #5's to the frame of the car. Replace the plastic wheels with 33" P2K's or Inter Mountains. It's easier to just use the Tyco trucks because of the way they mount to the car. They work and look OK. (IMHO)
rcato Hello. I have some old Tyco boxcars and gondolas. Can these be upgraded to NMRA standards? Change couplers? Change trucks etc.? I know, embarrassing, I just hate not to use them.
R:
Yes, you can! Don't be embarassed. You've got the cars already; upgrades will help you get going quickly and cheaply. A lot of us have done this at some point.
Here's one of mine - it's a Life-Like car, actually, like most of my fleet o' doom:
It's ugly as sin, and not even painted. I'm planning to use these cars as painting/lettering practice, testing schemes for my freelanced road, and experimental weathering. In the meantime, I run 'em with my slowly growing numbers of better-quality cars, to fill out the roster.
There are many things you can do. If you want couplers, the easiest way is to drop them in. I think Walthers Scenemaster knuckle couplers snap into the Tyco boxes as well as the Lifelike ones..if they're finally off backorder. Kadee makes couplers just for these cars, too. Early metal Tyco trucks take a number 9 coupler. Later plastic ones take a number 27 medium underset and their "Talgo Truck Adapter". Kadee has all sorts of great info on their site.
I don't use either of these. I bodymount no. 4's, or no. 5's in boxes, as seen in Fig. 4. No. 5's use a single no. 2 screw. No. 4's use two small screws or pins, or else CA.
Fig. 3 shows how this was varied for the hoppers, which have very little structure there - the box top is glued to the underframe. Cheesy, sure, but close enough for gummint work. You could fill this area with styrene. Scrape and shave the mounting area to flatten it. You may need to install styrene shims to make the height come out right.
The boxcar keeps its original trucks, but I filed down the bolsters to lower the car. This makes the trucks a bit floppy, but gravity makes it (sort of) work. Wheelsets are Tichy one-piece plastic, which are quite nice for what they are, very cheap, and snap right in. They roll well.
Other cars, like the hopper, are fitted with new trucks. The hopper is using Tichy archbars. These are a little fiddly to assemble, and you can see that I got a bit lazy with flash removal on this one, and left off the brake shoes and box lid because I lost my Round Tuit. They do roll well, and the parts fit well, and the cost is about $1.50 a pair if you buy the ten-packs. They also have one-piece trucks. I'm going to try these soon.
To mount the trucks, I snap out the old ones, then take a piece of sprue and heat the end over a candle, rolling slowly, until it droops, then cram it into the bolster hole, filling it with softened plastic. When this is hardened, I cut off the sprue, and file the bolster to flatten it and lower the car. Then I drill the plastic slug and mount the new trucks with no. 2 screws. It's a lot quicker than it sounds, but it's a lot easier to use the original trucks if you have enough good ones to go around. (See Fig. 2.)
You don't really need to change the trucks - the couplers and wheels are more important, and easier. I figured it was good for practice, and I had a bunch of truckless junkbox cars that I wanted to use.
Finally, get a bunch of pennies and use them to weight the cars to NMRA standards. Tell everybody you're using "Lincoln weights." Adjust your coupler height and trip pin, and send your ugly but usable beast out onto the pike.
rcatoHello. I have some old Tyco boxcars and gondolas. Can these be upgraded to NMRA standards? Change couplers? Change trucks etc.? I know, embarrassing, I just hate not to use them. -Ron
Any car that stays on the track meets NMRA standards. To run with your trains, the couplers have to match what ever you are using. The older Tyco stuff came with "NMRA" horn-hook couplers, mounted to the trucks. If you are running those couplers then you are home free. More likely, you are running Kadee or Kadee clone couplers and then you need to equip the Tyco rolling stock with them. Kadee makes hundreds of different couplers to fit nearly anything manufactured over the last 50 years. There is a conversion list on the Kadee website.
Or, you can convert to body mount Kadee couplers. You snip or file or saw off the truck mounted couplers and fasten a standard Kadee coupler box (with coupler) to the end sills of the car. I usually glue the coupler box in place and it stays stuck. Or you can drill and fasten the coupler box with screws.
The Tyco line was aimed at the children's toy market and the cars were often painted in bright colors with glossy paint. You can make them look better with some simple fixups. Spray the cars with Dull Cote to give them a flat finish. Or repaint and decal them. Red auto primer in a rattle can from the auto parts store gives an excellent boxcar red. Decal sheets for every railroad that ever ran in North America can be mail ordered, or if you are lucky enough to have a local hobby shop, purchased. If you are going to repaint, you can chisel off the molded on grab irons and install better looking ones made of wire. All you need is a pin vise and a set of small drills. Hopper cars look better with a coal load inplace.
I have a number of train set cars with improvements running in trains with much fancier cars and they look just fine.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
dstarrAny car that stays on the track meets NMRA standards.
Any car that stays on the track meets NMRA standards.
Well, that's clearly not accurate.
Here they are: http://www.nmra.org/standards/sandrp/consist.html
I too have a lot of old tyco cars in my fleet. Some have mentioned how to change over to Kadee couplers. I also change my wheel sets. What i do is remove the old talgo trucks then drill out the bolster hole with a 3/8" drill as straight as posible. then i'll glue a 3/8" styrene tube in the hole and let it dry. Once it's dry, i'll cut it off at the same height as the original bolster hole and then glue in a 1/4" styrene tubing inside the 3/8" tubing and cut it off to the original bolster hole height. Next, i'll tap a 2-56 screw in the 1/4" tubing and then mount the truck with a 2-56 screw. If the coupler is too high then it needs shimming between the car body and draft gear with styrene. If it's too low then a shim can be added between the car body and the wheelset. Please visit my web site. it has step by step documentation with pictures about mounting couplers and wheel sets to tyco rolling stock.
www.webshots.com/user/bayouman1 Look on page 7 of TRAINS1 starting with picture #3078
when you click the picture there is an explanation under the picture of what i'm doing to the Tyco boxcar....chuck
What I do with my TYCO,Bachmann,and LifeLike is cut the hornhooks off clean,pop out the wheelsets and grab my REBOXX Exxact Socket Tool. I put the tool in place and give it a few turns then do the other end followed up by doing the other truck.I then put the car on the rails and give it a little push.The cars will roll quite freely for upwards of 10 ',if they don't I will repeat the process.
Once I am satisfied with the rollability I body mount the coupler of choice.Oh while I'm thinking about it, I usually use metal wheels on cars where the wheels are in plain site,other wise I usually keep the plastic wheels as long as they are running true.
All plastic.
All great information from everyone. This novice appreciates all the help he can get. Yes, all plastic. I now can upgrade these cars. I think I am going to go with metal wheels. I like the Kadee trucks and couplers. Probably use shims and gearbox mounted on the frame/body.
The
I appreciate all the photos and instructions. On to the next project.
-RC
I personally, (and this is just me) would think twice about the Kadee trucks. I have a few pair and have had problems with the sprung trucks derailing. Other people love em. Inter Mountain makes some really nice trucks. Even good ole Athearn trucks work well. I'd say at least just try a couple pair before buying a couple dozen and finding out you don't like them. They aren't cheap!