I think I saw a discussion on this topic some time ago, but I can't find it now. I would appreciate any opinions on the subject. Are there any particular drawbacks to the Rivarossi's, which I believe are out of production now?
- Harry
Never mind. I found the discussion I was looking for. If anyone else is interested, here's the thread:
HarryHotspur I think I saw a discussion on this topic some time ago, but I can't find it now. I would appreciate any opinions on the subject.
Are there any particular drawbacks to the Rivarossi's,
Thanks TZ. The Walthers cars sound like what I'm looking for. I asked about Rivarossi because I had a good deal available, but I think I'd be better off with the Walthers.
The Walther's cars are NOT completely accurate for a 1951 and beyond Super Chief. Walther's never released the ACF and P/S "Regal" 4-4-2 sleepers (instead they went with the P/S "Hotevilla" 4-4-2s that are appropriate for the pre-'51 train), and did not produce the ACF "Palm" 10-6 sleepers. Walther's really botched up the Super Chief pretty bad. At least they got the 600 series diners and the 500 series domes out though.
For the Super Chief section of the Super Chief/El Capitan that I modeled, I used a mix of Walther's cars, and cars that I constructed using brass car sides from the Santa Fe Historical Society. Other than that, you will be stuck going with brass cars, and that can get pricey quick.
The Walthers cars are excellent overall. I have sold my Coach Yard train since the plastic cars can be pulled much more easy and they look very nice and cost much less. However, the Walthers do need tinted glass to look the part. The web site below shows the car with tinted glazing.
http://forums.railfan.net/forums.cgi?board=HOScale;action=displayphoto;num=1221580761;photo=HOScale/IMG_5573_3_841x294.jpg
"BEST" ATSFPssenger cars - hands down, are the Walters' 'Budd Cars - but not for 4X8's..(Their detailed underframemes are forr 24" radius curves +)...Beginners should stick to Athearn to avoid unwanted problems.
PASSENGER CARS were mostly 80' - 85'in length which have to be compromised to fit on 22 curves. your choice: ( 1). shorten cars) ( 2). lengthen distance between cars (3). 'Talgo' cuoplers & truucks ( 4.) eliminate or modify underframes , and (5.) all of the afore-mentioned.
i recommend #1 - #5 ' as''pecking order''..
PASSENGER CARS were either 'Heavyweigts' or Lightweaghts,( depending on the period),, and Cororegated or Smooth Sided (among among postwar 'lightweights) - the latter being painted..in iidentifying 'RR' colors..
SOME 'model makers tried to emulate the prototypes, others produced GENERIC cars to incraease their 'yield (and profitability).Not everyone wans a 10 car train of $50 ATSF Sleepers'
Affter many years of 'collecting' passenger cars foe the Santa Fe, I have acquired cars from 10 different makers, and conlude:: (Best to worst)
80 footers[
Walthers, BLI.,InterMountain (Hi-Level), Rivarossi (corregared ) Mantua (metal - discontinued)
ConCor, 'OK',(aliminum). Athearn
60 footers - only as Baggage & RPO's
Walthers'cars are supposed to be based on 'BUDD designs while ConCor's 85 footers are supposed to be based on ACF designes - accordinnig to them..
I only know of ONE car produced by ConCor that the Santa Fe actually used (Coach).,.
Side by siide the ConCor's LOSE with Talgo trucks & couplers,, and some were shipped with plastic wheels.that would handle 22" curves..
Don Gibson Walthers'cars are supposed to be based on 'BUDD designs while ConCor's 85 footers are supposed to be based on ACF designes - accordinnig to them.. I only know of ONE car produced by ConCor that the Santa Fe actually used (Coach).,. Side by siide the ConCor's LOSE with Talgo trucks & couplers,, and some were shipped with plastic wheels.that would handle 22" curves..
Walther's cars were based on Pullman Standard cars and Budd cars. The Budd cars were the RPO, baggage, and "Pine" 10-6 sleepers. The balance of the cars released as a part of that set were Pullman Standard cars.
As far as the Con Cor cars go, the diner is based on the Pullman Standard built 600 series floorplan, and the dome was based on the Pullman Standard built 500 series floorplan ("Pleasure Dome"). Those cars were it in plastic until Walther's released theirs. As Don pointed out, the Con Cor cars left a lot to be desired with the trucks, no interior, lack of underbody detail, poor window placement/dimensions, etc.
The only cars that ACF built (speaking strictly of sleepers) that was used on the 1951+ Super Chief were 10-6 "Palm" sleepers, and some of the 4-4-2 "Regal" sleepers (the other 4-4-2s were PS). On occasion you may have seen an ACF RPO or baggage car, though.
csmith9474 Don Gibson Walthers'cars are supposed to be based on 'BUDD designs while ConCor's 85 footers are supposed to be based on ACF designes - accordinnig to them.. I only know of ONE car produced by ConCor that the Santa Fe actually used (Coach).,. Side by siide the ConCor's LOSE with Talgo trucks & couplers,, and some were shipped with plastic wheels.that would handle 22" curves.. Walther's cars were based on Pullman Standard cars and Budd cars. The Budd cars were the RPO, baggage, and "Pine" 10-6 sleepers. The balance of the cars released as a part of that set were Pullman Standard cars. As far as the Con Cor cars go, the diner is based on the Pullman Standard built 600 series floorplan, and the dome was based on the Pullman Standard built 500 series floorplan ("Pleasure Dome"). Those cars were it in plastic until Walther's released theirs. As Don pointed out, the Con Cor cars left a lot to be desired with the trucks, no interior, lack of underbody detail, poor window placement/dimensions, etc. The only cars that ACF built (speaking strictly of sleepers) that was used on the 1951+ Super Chief were 10-6 "Palm" sleepers, and some of the 4-4-2 "Regal" sleepers (the other 4-4-2s were PS). On occasion you may have seen an ACF RPO or baggage car, though.
The 51 Super was a mixture of ACF (RPO, baggage and 10-6 Palm Series and 4-4-2 Regal series and one 4-1 Vista series Obs), PS (1339 series lounge dorm, 500 series Pleasure dome, 600 series diner, 4-4-2 Regal series and 4-1 Vista Series obs) and Budd (10-6 Pine series) but, the Budds were built prior to 51 were as the remaining cars were built for the 51 Super. For the Average modeler, to really model the Super would require a mixture of Walthers and ATSFHMS car sides or the older Soho brass cars. Remember the Santa Fe didn't tint the window on their low level cars with the exception of the 2816 series 48 seat chair car produced by Budd which Walthers did. The dome windows on all of Santa Fe's domes were tinted. The windows on all of the Hi-levels were tinted. To get the best model of the 51 Super would require the latest release of brass cars . Personally, I would get Coach Yards Pleasure dome and use Walthes for the rest of the train as the Pleasure dome was "The" car of the train.
Charlie
MP 53 on the BNSF Topeka Sub
Lots of great info! Thanks guys.
Charlie csmith9474 Don Gibson Walthers'cars are supposed to be based on 'BUDD designs while ConCor's 85 footers are supposed to be based on ACF designes - accordinnig to them.. I only know of ONE car produced by ConCor that the Santa Fe actually used (Coach).,. Side by siide the ConCor's LOSE with Talgo trucks & couplers,, and some were shipped with plastic wheels.that would handle 22" curves.. Walther's cars were based on Pullman Standard cars and Budd cars. The Budd cars were the RPO, baggage, and "Pine" 10-6 sleepers. The balance of the cars released as a part of that set were Pullman Standard cars. As far as the Con Cor cars go, the diner is based on the Pullman Standard built 600 series floorplan, and the dome was based on the Pullman Standard built 500 series floorplan ("Pleasure Dome"). Those cars were it in plastic until Walther's released theirs. As Don pointed out, the Con Cor cars left a lot to be desired with the trucks, no interior, lack of underbody detail, poor window placement/dimensions, etc. The only cars that ACF built (speaking strictly of sleepers) that was used on the 1951+ Super Chief were 10-6 "Palm" sleepers, and some of the 4-4-2 "Regal" sleepers (the other 4-4-2s were PS). On occasion you may have seen an ACF RPO or baggage car, though. The 51 Super was a mixture of ACF (RPO, baggage and 10-6 Palm Series and 4-4-2 Regal series and one 4-1 Vista series Obs), PS (1339 series lounge dorm, 500 series Pleasure dome, 600 series diner, 4-4-2 Regal series and 4-1 Vista Series obs) and Budd (10-6 Pine series) but, the Budds were built prior to 51 were as the remaining cars were built for the 51 Super. For the Average modeler, to really model the Super would require a mixture of Walthers and ATSFHMS car sides or the older Soho brass cars. Remember the Santa Fe didn't tint the window on their low level cars with the exception of the 2816 series 48 seat chair car produced by Budd which Walthers did. The dome windows on all of Santa Fe's domes were tinted. The windows on all of the Hi-levels were tinted. To get the best model of the 51 Super would require the latest release of brass cars . Personally, I would get Coach Yards Pleasure dome and use Walthes for the rest of the train as the Pleasure dome was "The" car of the train. Charlie
Yikes! I forgot (and will continue to forget) about "Vista Club". I am sure ACF hit the Santa Fe for a pretty penny with that car.
One thing to keep in mind here...apparently the SFRHMS is no longer going to carry the sides...they are apparently clearing them out at this time. http://atsfrr.net/store/carsides.htm
One other option is available for some of the cars that Walthers didn't produce...Union Station Products makes styrene car sides based on several Budd and PS cars used by the Santa Fe, including the "Blue" series sleepers and "Regal" sleepers, as well as several of the dorm/lounge, baggage/dorms, etc. They do require a bit of care when assembling, but they make some nice cars when completed!
Robert Beaty
The Laughing Hippie
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The CF-7...a waste of a perfectly good F-unit!
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the
end of your tunnel, Was just a freight train coming
your way. -Metallica, No Leaf Clover