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Best HO scale Santa Fe Super Chief passenger cars?

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  • Member since
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Best HO scale Santa Fe Super Chief passenger cars?
Posted by HarryHotspur on Sunday, October 19, 2008 11:00 PM

 I think I saw a discussion on this topic some time ago, but I can't find it now. I would appreciate any opinions on the subject. Are there any particular drawbacks to the Rivarossi's, which I believe are out of production now?

- Harry

Never mind. I found the discussion I was looking for. If anyone else is interested, here's the thread:

http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/129042/1451962.aspx#1451962

- Harry

  • Member since
    October, 2004
  • From: Colorful Colorado
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Posted by Texas Zepher on Monday, October 20, 2008 7:53 PM

HarryHotspur
I think I saw a discussion on this topic some time ago, but I can't find it now. I would appreciate any opinions on the subject.

I read the other thread and saw you were only interested in Rivarossi vs IHC cars.   Normally I am the one trying to keep people answering only the question that the person ask.  But, Walther's ran an actual Super Chief set a few years ago.  The cars were quite close to the real ones.  They have the appropriate skirts and window configurations for cars that were really used on the 1951 Super Chief.  I saw some of them in the clearance bin at my local hobby store a couple months ago.

Are there any particular drawbacks to the Rivarossi's,

They don't weigh enough. They are not really Super Chief cars, but general passenger cars painted in Santa Fe.

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Posted by HarryHotspur on Tuesday, October 21, 2008 1:20 AM

 Thanks TZ. The Walthers cars sound like what I'm looking for. I asked about Rivarossi because I had a good deal available, but I think I'd be better off with the Walthers.

- Harry

  • Member since
    April, 2005
  • From: Colorado Springs, CO
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Posted by csmith9474 on Tuesday, October 21, 2008 9:35 AM

The Walther's cars are NOT completely accurate for a 1951 and beyond Super Chief. Walther's never released the ACF and P/S "Regal" 4-4-2 sleepers (instead they went with the P/S "Hotevilla" 4-4-2s that are appropriate for the pre-'51 train), and did not produce the ACF "Palm" 10-6 sleepers. Walther's really botched up the Super Chief pretty bad. At least they got the 600 series diners and the 500 series domes out though.

For the Super Chief section of the Super Chief/El Capitan that I modeled, I used a mix of Walther's cars, and cars that I constructed using brass car sides from the Santa Fe Historical Society. Other than that, you will be stuck going with brass cars, and that can get pricey quick.

Smitty
  • Member since
    July, 2006
  • 3,142 posts
Posted by CAZEPHYR on Tuesday, October 21, 2008 1:36 PM

 The Walthers cars are excellent overall.  I have sold my Coach Yard train since the plastic cars can be pulled much more easy and they look very nice and cost much less.    However, the Walthers do need tinted glass to look the part.  The web site below shows the car with tinted glazing.

 

 http://forums.railfan.net/forums.cgi?board=HOScale;action=displayphoto;num=1221580761;photo=HOScale/IMG_5573_3_841x294.jpg

 

 

  • Member since
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  • From: Pacific Northwest
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Posted by Don Gibson on Tuesday, October 21, 2008 2:00 PM

"BEST" ATSFPssenger cars - hands down, are the Walters' 'Budd Cars - but not for 4X8's..(Their detailed underframemes are forr 24" radius curves +)...Beginners should stick to Athearn to avoid unwanted problems.

PASSENGER CARS  were mostly 80' - 85'in length which have to be compromised  to fit on 22  curves. your choice:  ( 1). shorten cars)  ( 2). lengthen distance between cars (3). 'Talgo' cuoplers & truucks ( 4.) eliminate or modify underframes , and (5.) all of the afore-mentioned.   

i recommend #1 - #5 ' as''pecking order''..

PASSENGER CARS  were either  'Heavyweigts' or Lightweaghts,( depending on the period),, and Cororegated or  Smooth Sided (among among postwar 'lightweights) - the latter being painted..in  iidentifying 'RR' colors..

SOME 'model makers tried to emulate the prototypes, others produced GENERIC cars to incraease their 'yield (and profitability).Not everyone wans a 10 car train of  $50 ATSF Sleepers'

Affter many years of 'collecting' passenger cars foe the Santa Fe, I have acquired cars from 10 different makers, and conlude:: (Best to worst)

80 footers[

Walthers, BLI.,InterMountain (Hi-Level), Rivarossi (corregared ) Mantua (metal - discontinued)

ConCor, 'OK',(aliminum). Athearn

60 footers - only as Baggage & RPO's

Don Gibson .............. ________ _______ I I__()____||__| ||||| I / I ((|__|----------| | |||||||||| I ______ I // o--O O O O-----o o OO-------OO ###########################
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  • From: Pacific Northwest
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Posted by Don Gibson on Tuesday, October 21, 2008 3:29 PM

Walthers'cars are supposed to be based on 'BUDD designs while ConCor's 85 footers are supposed to be based on ACF designes - accordinnig to them..

I  only know of ONE car produced by ConCor  that the Santa Fe actually used  (Coach).,.   

Side by siide the ConCor's LOSE with Talgo trucks & couplers,, and some were shipped with plastic wheels.that would handle 22" curves..

Don Gibson .............. ________ _______ I I__()____||__| ||||| I / I ((|__|----------| | |||||||||| I ______ I // o--O O O O-----o o OO-------OO ###########################
  • Member since
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  • From: Colorado Springs, CO
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Posted by csmith9474 on Tuesday, October 21, 2008 4:03 PM

Don Gibson

Walthers'cars are supposed to be based on 'BUDD designs while ConCor's 85 footers are supposed to be based on ACF designes - accordinnig to them..

I  only know of ONE car produced by ConCor  that the Santa Fe actually used  (Coach).,.   

Side by siide the ConCor's LOSE with Talgo trucks & couplers,, and some were shipped with plastic wheels.that would handle 22" curves..

Walther's cars were based on Pullman Standard cars and Budd cars. The Budd cars were the RPO, baggage, and "Pine" 10-6 sleepers. The balance of the cars released as a part of that set were Pullman Standard cars.

As far as the Con Cor cars go, the diner is based on the Pullman Standard built 600 series floorplan, and the dome was based on the Pullman Standard built 500 series floorplan ("Pleasure Dome"). Those cars were it in plastic until Walther's released theirs. As Don pointed out, the Con Cor cars left a lot to be desired with the trucks, no interior, lack of underbody detail, poor window placement/dimensions, etc.

 The only cars that ACF built (speaking strictly of sleepers) that was used on the 1951+ Super Chief were 10-6 "Palm" sleepers, and some of the 4-4-2 "Regal" sleepers (the other 4-4-2s were PS). On occasion you may have seen an ACF RPO or baggage car, though.

 

Smitty
  • Member since
    July, 2006
  • From: Topeka, KS
  • 329 posts
Posted by Charlie on Tuesday, October 21, 2008 9:17 PM

csmith9474

Don Gibson

Walthers'cars are supposed to be based on 'BUDD designs while ConCor's 85 footers are supposed to be based on ACF designes - accordinnig to them..

I  only know of ONE car produced by ConCor  that the Santa Fe actually used  (Coach).,.   

Side by siide the ConCor's LOSE with Talgo trucks & couplers,, and some were shipped with plastic wheels.that would handle 22" curves..

Walther's cars were based on Pullman Standard cars and Budd cars. The Budd cars were the RPO, baggage, and "Pine" 10-6 sleepers. The balance of the cars released as a part of that set were Pullman Standard cars.

As far as the Con Cor cars go, the diner is based on the Pullman Standard built 600 series floorplan, and the dome was based on the Pullman Standard built 500 series floorplan ("Pleasure Dome"). Those cars were it in plastic until Walther's released theirs. As Don pointed out, the Con Cor cars left a lot to be desired with the trucks, no interior, lack of underbody detail, poor window placement/dimensions, etc.

 The only cars that ACF built (speaking strictly of sleepers) that was used on the 1951+ Super Chief were 10-6 "Palm" sleepers, and some of the 4-4-2 "Regal" sleepers (the other 4-4-2s were PS). On occasion you may have seen an ACF RPO or baggage car, though.

 

The 51 Super was a mixture of ACF (RPO, baggage and 10-6 Palm Series and 4-4-2 Regal series and one 4-1 Vista series Obs), PS (1339 series lounge dorm, 500 series Pleasure dome, 600 series diner, 4-4-2 Regal series and 4-1 Vista Series obs) and Budd (10-6 Pine series) but, the Budds  were built prior to 51 were as the remaining cars were built for the 51 Super. For the Average modeler, to really model the Super would require a mixture of Walthers and ATSFHMS car sides or the older Soho brass cars. Remember the Santa Fe didn't tint the window on their low level cars with the exception of the 2816 series 48 seat chair car produced by Budd which Walthers did. The dome windows on all of Santa Fe's domes were tinted. The windows on all of the Hi-levels were tinted. To get the best model of the 51 Super would require the latest release of brass cars . Personally, I would get Coach Yards Pleasure dome and use Walthes for the rest of the train as the Pleasure dome was "The" car of the train.

Charlie

MP 53 on the BNSF Topeka Sub

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Posted by HarryHotspur on Tuesday, October 21, 2008 11:27 PM

 Lots of great info! Thanks guys.

- Harry

  • Member since
    April, 2005
  • From: Colorado Springs, CO
  • 3,561 posts
Posted by csmith9474 on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 12:13 AM

Charlie

csmith9474

Don Gibson

Walthers'cars are supposed to be based on 'BUDD designs while ConCor's 85 footers are supposed to be based on ACF designes - accordinnig to them..

I  only know of ONE car produced by ConCor  that the Santa Fe actually used  (Coach).,.   

Side by siide the ConCor's LOSE with Talgo trucks & couplers,, and some were shipped with plastic wheels.that would handle 22" curves..

Walther's cars were based on Pullman Standard cars and Budd cars. The Budd cars were the RPO, baggage, and "Pine" 10-6 sleepers. The balance of the cars released as a part of that set were Pullman Standard cars.

As far as the Con Cor cars go, the diner is based on the Pullman Standard built 600 series floorplan, and the dome was based on the Pullman Standard built 500 series floorplan ("Pleasure Dome"). Those cars were it in plastic until Walther's released theirs. As Don pointed out, the Con Cor cars left a lot to be desired with the trucks, no interior, lack of underbody detail, poor window placement/dimensions, etc.

 The only cars that ACF built (speaking strictly of sleepers) that was used on the 1951+ Super Chief were 10-6 "Palm" sleepers, and some of the 4-4-2 "Regal" sleepers (the other 4-4-2s were PS). On occasion you may have seen an ACF RPO or baggage car, though.

 

The 51 Super was a mixture of ACF (RPO, baggage and 10-6 Palm Series and 4-4-2 Regal series and one 4-1 Vista series Obs), PS (1339 series lounge dorm, 500 series Pleasure dome, 600 series diner, 4-4-2 Regal series and 4-1 Vista Series obs) and Budd (10-6 Pine series) but, the Budds  were built prior to 51 were as the remaining cars were built for the 51 Super. For the Average modeler, to really model the Super would require a mixture of Walthers and ATSFHMS car sides or the older Soho brass cars. Remember the Santa Fe didn't tint the window on their low level cars with the exception of the 2816 series 48 seat chair car produced by Budd which Walthers did. The dome windows on all of Santa Fe's domes were tinted. The windows on all of the Hi-levels were tinted. To get the best model of the 51 Super would require the latest release of brass cars . Personally, I would get Coach Yards Pleasure dome and use Walthes for the rest of the train as the Pleasure dome was "The" car of the train.

Charlie

Yikes! I forgot (and will continue to forget) about "Vista Club". I am sure ACF hit the Santa Fe for a pretty penny with that car.

Smitty
  • Member since
    March, 2007
  • From: College Station, TX
  • 636 posts
Posted by Arjay1969 on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 8:35 AM

 One thing to keep in mind here...apparently the SFRHMS is no longer going to carry the sides...they are apparently clearing them out at this time.  http://atsfrr.net/store/carsides.htm

One other option is available for some of the cars that Walthers didn't produce...Union Station Products makes styrene car sides based on several Budd and PS cars used by the Santa Fe, including the "Blue" series sleepers and "Regal" sleepers, as well as several of the dorm/lounge, baggage/dorms, etc.  They do require a bit of care when assembling, but they make some nice cars when completed! Smile

Robert Beaty

The Laughing Hippie

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The CF-7...a waste of a perfectly good F-unit!

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Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the

end of your tunnel, Was just a freight train coming

your way.          -Metallica, No Leaf Clover

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