Tips for soldering track

[liquidcross]

I've got strong soldering skills, but since I've never soldered track before, I was wondering if you guys could offer any pointers. Specifially, where on the rail should I solder? The inside or the outside? I'll be using a 15-watt finepoint grounded iron, with thin silver or medium solder.

[Anonymous]

If you are adding feeders, always put them on the outside of the track to avoid interfering with the wheel flanges. Actually that goes for joining rails together. Solder everything formthe outside.


Andrew

[Anonymous]

I agree with masonjar's points. I use solid #22 wire for feeders. I drill a hole slightly larger than the wire with it's insulation between the outside portions of two ties, outside the rail. With the wire in the feeder hole, I clean about 1/4th inch of insulation off the wire. Then I make two bends, one about 1/8th inch from the tip of the wire. This bend is a 90 degree bend, and in line with the rail. The next bend is perpendicular to the rail and bent towards the rail to approximately 45 degrees. The wire is pulled through the hole down to the level of the rail. The 90 bend lays up against the rail and the 45 bend towards the rail springs the wire and holds it against the rail. This way no clamps or other means of holding the joint together are needed. Once I am satisfied the wire will remain in place, I solder the two together.

[Anonymous]

Here are some tips.

1. Move the first two or three ties back from the end of the rail. You have to cut a litle bit of plastic that spaces the ties from the underside of the track. Be carful not to break the tie plates.

2. Shine up the metal that are to be soldered with emory cloth or fine wire bush. That's necessary for brass but nickel silver is usually doesn't need it unless it's dull or dirty. Use a Q-Tip to clean oils off the surfaces with rubbing alcohol.

3. Use a soldering gun (140 / 100 watt). The higher the wattage the faster the metal will heat up in a small area. Anything less will only melt the ties.

4. Use very small diameter (32 AWG) rosin core wire solder. The same stuff you use to solder electrical wire. Smaller diameter solder makes it eaiser to control the amount of solder on the joint. Don't use acid core solder or acid flux.That will only cause corrosion no matter how well you clean it off. If you do want to use a flux, use a rosin flux. I only use flux on rally big things like plumbing or metal that will not need to make electrical contact.

5. Use hemostats for a heat sink. You can find them at tool supply stores. Buy a large enough one so it won't damage the rail. There shouldn't be a lot of pressure to close the clamp. Clamp it between the joint area and the ties to protect the ties fom melting. If you are fast enough at solidering, you might not even need it.

6. Keep the gun tip clean. Wipe excess solider off the tip by swiping it quickly with a damp (not wet) sponge. There only needs to be a thin film of solder on the tip and it must be shinny when hot. If not, the heat will not tranfer well at the point of contact but will cause the parts to heat up enough to melt plastic, not the solder.

7. Tin the parts separately. Tinning means to prepare the part for soldering by applying just a thin coat of solider on the parts. Doing this assures that each part has taken the solder. Only solder the outside of the rail and joiner.
First heat up the soldering gun then touch the tip to the area where you want solder. Touch the solder close to the tip but NOT on it. The instant the solder melts, back off. The important point here is to heat the part to melt the solder, not the tip of the gun. Solider flows towards the heat sorce. That's the trick in solidering.
If you apply too much solider, wipe the melted solider with a damp sponge. Electronic supply stores sell de-solidering wicks and other devices that remove excess molten solider. They are handy but are used mainly for de-solidering PC boards.
Next, connect all the parts. If you can't slip the joiner on the rail, apply heat to rail just long enough to melt the solder as you are slipping the joiner on. Once the two sections are connected (be sure there's no bump), heat the joint in the middle and from the bottom. Add just a DAB of solder. The important thing here is not to move the parts untill they are cooled. I use two pieces of 2"x4" wood to raise the track off the workbench and weights to hold the track down.

Bottom line is clean the parts and the tip of the gun, use high heat and be fast, tin the parts first with as little amount of solder as possible, assemble the parts carefully and use only a dab of solider. If the solder on the joint doesn't melt within a few seconds, stop. Something isn't right. Either the tip of the gun is dirty or it's not getting hot enough. Be sure the nuts that hold the tip on are tight and making good clean contact. Replace the tip when it looks worn down.
Another thing that I use is magnifying goggles and lots of light. It really helps to see what your doing.

G.

[Anonymous]

gsetter's process sounds like a good one. However, when soldering feeders to track or making general wiring connections, I don't use flux, don't tin or shine the parts to be joined and I don't pay particular attention to the soldering gun's tip, I only make sure it is tinned. If I was soldering old brass track I would likely need to shine the parts, however I use N.S. rail. I've found that when you remove the insulation from wire, the wire is clean enough to be soldered. I don't do anything to the ties, either, as I find I am in and out so quick that damage to the ties is minimal. I read that you feel you have strong soldering capibilities so I don't feel I need explain any further. I do use a gun. I like the fact that the tip cools down when not in use.

You will find that people have many methods of achieving the same end. I don't espouse my method over Gary's. In fact, I would use a more methodical approach, if I started having trouble.

[lupo]

gsetter, you seem to know a lot about soldering, I once was told that when the parts you soldered the tin looks dull after cooling that joint is not good, it should look shiny after cooling.
do you know anything about that?
thanks
LUPO

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by lupo

gsetter, you seem to know a lot about soldering, I once was told that when the parts you soldered the tin looks dull after cooling that joint is not good, it should look shiny after cooling.
do you know anything about that?
thanks
LUPO

I've had plenty of practice.
A dull solder joint is sometimes called a cold joint or bond. What happend was not enough heat was applied and the metal / solder cooled too fast and / or the parts moved while cooling down. Always let the joint cool down compleatly before moving it. Reheating the joint and securing the parts (clamp of some sort) to prevent movement will fix the bond.
However, if the solder doesn't look as shiny as polished aluminum it doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad bond. It should at least look somewhat shiny but not like flat aluminum or dull gray. Allways test you work before puting it into service.

G.

[locomcf]

On my N scale layout I've soldered all my feeders to the underside of the rail. My feeders are made from 6" - 9" lengths of figure-8 speaker wire (typically 14 strands x 0.020" in each lead). I strip and tin both ends for about half and inch. Then I bend the wires at one end 90 degrees to the length of the wire, so they point out from each other.

First I cut and test fit the flex-track, and when I'm happy with it I lay it down with the ties 'up'. Then I cut the plastic at a convenient place and slide the ties along to give me a gap of about one inch. Next, I use a narrow flat file to clean the bottom of the rail, and I then apply a small blob of resin core solder with a 40W soldering iron. Finally, I solder the bent ends of the lead onto the rail (on the blob of solder). When the rail cools I slide the ties back into place

I then drill an 8mm hole on the plywood track bed, corresponding with where the lead is connected to the rail and drop the wire through before refitting the length of flex track. Once the wire is through the ply, I attach a screw terminal, and hot-glue it to the underside of the plywood.

Once ballasted, you can't see the solder joint at all.

[Anonymous]

Hey there, Dave here, the old codger!!! I solder n scale track and ho track for a friend. I also taught soldering to Mil-Spec for the air force for 5 years.
1. Use an iron, not a gun. I recommend a weller princess 60 watt with a 1/16" flat tip. The iron is thermostatically controlled for a tip temp of 700 degrees.
2. Use eutectic solder (Sn63/Pb37) It will melt at the lowest temperature and has no plastic state, it is either liquid or solid, period.
3. I use a liquid rosin flux, comes in a bottle, and helps the solder flow better, and at a lower temperature.
4. If you use this setup, you shouldn't have to remove ties, etc. because you will be applying heat for a very short time.

Of course the ideal mathod would be to use a conductive tweezer setup, but they cost over 200 bucks. They only heat the work that the tweezers are actuallt grabbing at the time. DO NOT try to solder track with a 15 watt iron, by the time the rail is hot enough to solder, you will have damaged ties. You iron should be 60 watts. I don,t like soldering guns because the heat on them is not real consistent. Make sure your iron tip is well tinned, (has shiny solder on it) for optimum heat transfer. Hope this helps, Dave

[ClinchValleySD40]

QUOTE: Originally posted by liquidcross

I've got strong soldering skills, but since I've never soldered track before, I was wondering if you guys could offer any pointers. Specifially, where on the rail should I solder? The inside or the outside? I'll be using a 15-watt finepoint grounded iron, with thin silver or medium solder.

Do NOT use a small solder iron. Best (as stated earlier) is a 100/140 gun. It not only allows you to work fast, it is actually easier on melting ties than the smaller gun (because you work so fast). Small irons (less than 100 watts) take so long to heat the rail/wire that they cause problems. Use a large gun.

[Anonymous]

Potato/Patato, Tomato/Tamato. Do what works best for you! Nobody above is right or wrong and nobody should make empirical statements about how to do this process! I have lots of experiance talking here, doing all types of iron and torch soldering, brazing, torch welding, stick welding and wire feed welding. I was actually paid to do this! I can tell you there are many, many ways to skin a cat! The most important thing you need to do is come up with a system that works and work that system!

[ClinchValleySD40]

Understand deschane, but we're talking working around plastic attached to the metal. If you hold a small wattage iron on the track, it will take forever to heat the rail AND wire to get a good solder joint. That heat transfers to the ties which then melt. It is much better (IMHO) to hit it quick with a high wattage gun and get off before the melting starts. Just trying to save some frustration for some others (I've been down this road) before they do it. After doing litteraly thousands of feeders attached to track, I do have opinions on the best way to do it.

[Anonymous]

Clinchvalley,
Actually you and I use the same process, a gun. However, I don't think these guys would be recommending a small iron if they weren't successful with it. Hey, if they want to slide ties around, use heatsinks, 67/33 solder and all that stuff, let'm have at'er! I think you and me are K.I.S.S. folks!

I really don't worry about melting the end of a tie. I think it adds some irregularity, which I like. Also, I like to be able to find where the soldered lead is, so I can visually inspect for a loose connection. The rail and ties get painted Floquil Roof Brown and the solder joint really becomes difficult to find, with it on the outside of the rail.

Cottonbelt819,
Your handle is one of my favorite locos!

See yas.

[Anonymous]

Hey, fellows, I wasn't talking about using a small wattage iron. I was talking about using a 60 watt iron with a small tip!! Not the same thing! I have never had a plastic tie melt yet. The key is eutectic solder and a good quality rosin flux(like they use in electronics). That is the method that works for me. If you feel more comfortable with a gun, OK, but do use the 63/37 solder, It is nearly impossible to get a cold joint with it. Also, if you are doing a long curve with a joint in the middle, best to solder the joint first, then put it in the middle of the curve, then flex your track to the curve. Good luck and happy soldering. I am on and off the connection so fast I have never had to use a heatsink. Just make sure the wire feeder is well tinned. Another trick I have seen is soldering a wire to the bottom of a rail joiner BEFORE the track is installed. The disadvantage to this is that you can't subsequently solder that joint, or you'll unsolder thre feeder.

[Anonymous]

I like to tug on my feeders after soldering to make sure they aren't cold joints. Every once in a while.......

[dstaley]

I've had very good luck with a Weller 40W soldering pencil. It's hot enough to solder code 100 (HO) rail without melting ties. I cannot get a good quality 25W iron to heat the rail fast enough, but the 40W does fine. I use a paste rosin flux applied with a toothpick and rosin core wire (already had on hand).

[nslakediv]

I too use weller 60 watt, no problems, key is a fine point, use a grinder to sharpen point every so often, then just retin the end. I'm supprised no one solders the rail joints and feeders to hidden side of rail, i do then you just file slightly with small file. to each his own.

[Anonymous]

I have both a 100 watt gun and a dual mode 15/30 watt solder iron. I have had better luck with the 30 watt iron then with the gun. After practicing on track for a while I found that my joints were better at the lower watt then with the hotter gun. I did for a while have a problem with melting ties until I learned to place wet rags ontop of the ties closest to the solder point. I have not melted a tie since.

Just another example of there's really no right way to solder. i say experiment as much as you can and figure out what workes for you.
Andrew Miller

[philnrunt]

The only thing I can add is if you don't have a heat sink, try wet paper towels across the rails a few inches back from the joint. They also come in handy to wipe the sweat off when things get ....i n t e r e s t i n g .

[jfugate]

I agree with all that has been said on here except I do one thing slightly differently ... I solder *both* feeders on the back side of the rail. That means one feeder is on the inside of the rail -- which is not a problem if you are careful and use the technique below.

I used 18 guage wire stranded (I prefer less chance of breakage since stranded wire flexes more). I strip the wire, twist the strands tightly, then using a pair of needlenose pliers, I bend just the tip of the wire in an "L". I press the lower leg of the "L" flat, which splays out the strands to be flat and wide.

Then I solder this flat splayed out "L" of the feeder to just the BASE of the rail using just a bit of solder. Once in a while I need to use a file on the joint, but most of the time the joint is so low on the rail that it never interferes with the flanges.

Being one who is very picky with how my layout looks scenickly and who likes to take realistic photos for my web site, this technique of soldering the feeders to the *backside* of the rails makes them invisible for all practical purposes.


Recent photo of the HO Siskiyou Line

[AntonioFP45]

I was concerned about soldering feeders on track, especially for DCC applications. As mentioned by another poster the voltage from the power pack drops at rail joints.

These tips are very helpful.

Thanks! [:D][8D][:)][:D][8D][tup]

[tatans]

I'm planning to print this page, then I can hunt you all down when I make mistakes (I keed I keed!) there are some great tips here, especially to a guy who didn't know the both pieces of metal being joined have to be heated too! I thought the solder just melted and they were joined, also, heat sinks, when soldering a detail on a brass engine when all the other soldered parts begin to fall off, it's time for heat sinks. I won't be using oxy-acetylene
on my brass engine either-----thanks for the tips.