UPDATE
I have taken off the paint and went to all rust like this
im going to add more rust
Better!
One thing about rust... it darkens as it gets older. New rust is bright orange like that, but older rust is more of a reddish-brown.
Still, that's looking much better. You're on your way!
Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.
put some more reddish rust on....
Oooo.... Now that's too much. You can't really read the lettering anymore.
The best way to do rust is to start with the darker, older rust and then go lighter from there.
We know the process is reversable... are you will to start again? If not, you're still in a much better place than the first time.
I use brown (i.e., Burnt Umber) for old rust, sometimes with a little black mixed in. New rust gets a more orangy-brown (i.e., Burnt Sienna), but I never use that so-called Rust color you get from PolyScale anymore.
Hey Dave,
Is this Better? The paint is still wet so i could remove most of it, Its getting where I'm looking it to be so I'm not going to strip to the orginal paint, just remove layers of wet paint when I Need too. I'm going to darken the rust VERY carefully now.
Tjsingle
Yes, that's better... It still looks very "fresh" to me, but that may be an artifact of the flash you're using. It may be darker under normal lighting.
Look at the second car behind the GP9 in this picture. It's a brighter rust than I'd usually use, but I was working from a photograph. This one did actually use PolyScale Rust as one of the wash colors, but only after I'd used Grimy Black and Railroad Tie Brown washes.
I think if you can tone it down to about that level you'll be in great shape.
Ok this is what I have so far in the long line of attempts.
better or worse?
The color looks great. But the paint looks really, really thick. Are you using washes, or straight paint? Washes would be mostly water with some color. Looks like you're using mostly color with some water. You've obscured not only the rivet detail but even the ribs.
Again, the color is much closer to what you're looking for. Very believable.
But because it's so thick, you may need to strip it again (I know, I'm sorry, I know this is turning into a much bigger project than you expected). But try to remember what colors you used and in what mixtures... only this time add them one thin layer at a time.
Best of luck! Take 3 is already worlds and worlds better than take 1!
Here are two slide I took in the 1980's of 2 CB&Q Gons
Thank you so much for the pictures, they are my new protoype, the paint that I used sordof well, Dried way to thick and can barely see the detailing, so im starting over again...
Dave Vollmer wrote: The color looks great. But the paint looks really, really thick. Are you using washes, or straight paint? Washes would be mostly water with some color. Looks like you're using mostly color with some water. You've obscured not only the rivet detail but even the ribs.Again, the color is much closer to what you're looking for. Very believable.But because it's so thick, you may need to strip it again (I know, I'm sorry, I know this is turning into a much bigger project than you expected). But try to remember what colors you used and in what mixtures... only this time add them one thin layer at a time.Best of luck! Take 3 is already worlds and worlds better than take 1!
Well Dave, you have a good eye, I didn't use wash's, now I'm new to the art of weathering. Now a Wash is a mixture of paint and water right? Also how do i make washs that are effective in coloring, I did make a wash on my tunnel portals which turned out great, as seen on my other forums. If you can help me out that will help alot :D
You're on your way TJ... In a week you're learning what it took me 25 years to learn! I really like how eager you are to learn, and how well you handle setbacks. You're a very mature young man. You'll do very, very well in this hobby and in life.
I would say for a pure wash, it's almost 10:1 water to color... Thicker washes are probably more 5:1 or 3:1. I like it really thin for more control. The trucks get a 1:1 wash, and the rust dots are straight paint, no water. But I don't mix them in cups or anything, I just soak the brush well and then dip it in the paint; how deep I dip it determines the strength of the wash.
The trucks get straight Burnt Umber... while the body usually gets a mix, to include some black. Again, the trucks get a much thicker wash. I leave the trucks on the body as I work.I apply the washes with a wide, flat brush for broad areas, but I always apply it "with the grain," either by following the roof panels or the body rivet lines. Usually the wash doesn't leave any brush marks, but just in case, I always follow the route that water would in the presence of gravity (i.e., vertical on the sides).
Hope this helps. These are N scale, but you get the idea. Very thin washes. Add in layers.
Tj,
If you have a bottle of windshield washer fluid in the garage, use that to make your washes. It'll dry a lot faster and not have as much surface tension as water.
If you look at the door on this car, you can see how the wash pools up in the details. By tipping the car up a bit (from laying flat on its side) the pool will accumulate to the bottom of each area, and on top of things like ribs and rivets. When you have the puddle almost running down the side of the car, take a dry, soft brush, and just hold the tip of it at the lowest edge of the pool. This will draw the water off of the car, and leave behind a residue of the paint. You can also use a bit of paper towel, but a dry brush will give you more control.
At first, it won't look like you left much there, but by repeating the process, you get a very natural looking build up of grime and grunge.
I always do this step first, then go back with the dark browns to build up any rust I want to add. You want to do this step very sparingly, too.
Don't be in a big hurry, either... Once you get the hang of it you can go a little faster, but invest some time in learning the process and experimenting, and you'll end up getting great results.
And like Dave, I appreciate your tenacity, and your willingness not to settle for a few "attaboys".
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
TJ
I wanted to hop back in here. Dave V. has given you some excellent advice. I firgured it was better to let one person provide the lesson instead of you getting it from all directions.
Now is the time to give an "Attaboy" not because of the way the gondola looks (or doesn't look), but because you shown a willingness to take the advice given, start over (more than once) and try again with a desire to improve and learn.
There is one thing that stands out in one of the pics of the gondola. The 'Burlington' letter ing the side of the car stands out, it doesn't have the same weathered look as the other panels on the side of the car. I believe this was a factory paint job on the car, but the way the weathering washes look it looks like there's a decal there. On your next project you should try to dullcoat the car first, before applying any weathering effects. This will seal the factory paint, provide a uniform surface and provide a surface with a little 'tooth' for the washes and powders to adhere to.
Kepp up the studying and practice. You've already shown improvement and more will follow.
TJ,
What's your era again? The reason I ask is that I know you're doing Conrail... Early Conrail had a whole treasture trove of repaints, paint-outs, patch-jobs, etc. My favorite CR freight cars are the Penn Central green ones that just have the CR stenciled on them.
But, for true "Conrail Hotness" you can't beat this guy from Fallen Flags:
Check out that PC(A) paint job coming through on this former Penn Central X71! I plan to do this in N too. Just too cool not to.
jktrains wrote:C'mon Dave, let's get TJ through basic weathering 101 before moving onto the a PhD level project.
He's a good student, though!
To do that CR box, I'd start w/ an Atlas 50' Precision Design boxcar painted for PC (like the one in my weathering thread) and brush paint on the mineral red. Then it's just a matter of decals and dust!
Dave Vollmer wrote: TJ,What's your era again? The reason I ask is that I know you're doing Conrail... Early Conrail had a whole treasture trove of repaints, paint-outs, patch-jobs, etc. My favorite CR freight cars are the Penn Central green ones that just have the CR stenciled on them.But, for true "Conrail Hotness" you can't beat this guy from Fallen Flags:Check out that PC(A) paint job coming through on this former Penn Central X71! I plan to do this in N too. Just too cool not to.
I model Conrail in the 1990's I have alot of late conrail stuff like bethgons, and a SD70mac. But anyways I had this old conrail flat car that i was the prefect for some weathering. (this camera is different then what i use) But here are some pictures of what i have so far. Now about that burlington gondola, i stripped the paint and cleaned it up to its orginal paint, i just put some rust on it nothing exciting so no pictures.
But heres gondola.
Well, you're in luck! That CR boxcar photo was taken in 1989! I don't care that it's 9 years past my era... It's too good to pass up. Even if it's very unlikely to have weathered that much in 4 years... Modeler's license and all that!
The CR flat... The sides look good! I assume you drybrushed it with rust. I've done the same many times myself and find it effective.
My suggestion is to paint the deck with an earth or light gray color to simulate wood. Then weather the heck out of the wood.
Here are a pair of PRR flats where I painted the decks with Poly Scale Earth and then weathered the decks with chalk powders:
Dave Vollmer wrote: jktrains wrote:C'mon Dave, let's get TJ through basic weathering 101 before moving onto the a PhD level project.He's a good student, though!To do that CR box, I'd start w/ an Atlas 50' Precision Design boxcar painted for PC (like the one in my weathering thread) and brush paint on the mineral red. Then it's just a matter of decals and dust!
Should we make this car the subject of a weathering challenge? Give us something fun to work on?
jktrains wrote: Dave Vollmer wrote: jktrains wrote:C'mon Dave, let's get TJ through basic weathering 101 before moving onto the a PhD level project.He's a good student, though!To do that CR box, I'd start w/ an Atlas 50' Precision Design boxcar painted for PC (like the one in my weathering thread) and brush paint on the mineral red. Then it's just a matter of decals and dust! Should we make this car the subject of a weathering challenge? Give us something fun to work on?
Hmmm.... I'd be in for it!
I'd ask for a delay, though... I'm less than a month out from my PhD dissertation defense, and two months from a 1500-mile move. By this fall though I'd be in a position to jump on this!
jktrains wrote:OK, waiting a few motnhs is fine. I figure if we can have all these 'stupid' layout design contests why not have a little weathering 'contest'. Keep your eyes open for various prototype pics with a eye towards a car type and paint job that is readily available, like that CR car. Towards the end of summer we'll pick one and go with it. I thinking along the lines of the 3ft rule, the model should be a close match, but doesn;t have to be an exact match for the prototype style car. Sounds like fun.
Good deal... I need to fudge the test/repaint date anyway to fit into my era.
I have this problem whereby I actually believe people read build and test dates on N scale models. Even my fellow PRR and CR modelers tell me that's too retentive...
Oooh! I have one of those PCA cars.... How much weathering would be appropriate to run that car on a layout set 6 years before the formation of Conrail!?!
You find that over time with practice & looking at prototype photographs you can with the combination of ink & paint washes plus some chalk you can get some nice cars. I'm still learning even more on this forum on more ways to make my cars look like the real thing!
Dave Vollmer wrote:TJ,What's your era again? The reason I ask is that I know you're doing Conrail... Early Conrail had a whole treasture trove of repaints, paint-outs, patch-jobs, etc. My favorite CR freight cars are the Penn Central green ones that just have the CR stenciled on them.But, for true "Conrail Hotness" you can't beat this guy from Fallen Flags:Check out that PC(A) paint job coming through on this former Penn Central X71! I plan to do this in N too. Just too cool not to.
Dave-I actually did this very car in HO a little over a year ago-sold it on Ebay to a fellow in Texas.
It was not one of my better jobs-I got a little hurried on the car, a mistake I've learned to not do in the ongoing weathering classes on MTW.
Actually it was done as a re-do. At the time I acquired an Atlas PCA car to replicate a proto CSX car, (strip & repaint) but my 20/100 proto "eye" didn't catch those dreadnaught ends which signify the X71 until after the fact-yikes! (I'm much more careful now I hope )
Anyways, that was the coolest proto example I could find. Something I wish I could redo now upon hindsight. But looking forward as to seeing your version as you can learn from seeing mine (my mistakes mind you!
Sorry for the late post-missed it earlier & then my comp died-going off my other half's comp right now.
Mitch,
Very nice! I know there's another guy who did this car in N too. It's just to hot not to do!
Right now I'm leaving my X71 in Penn Central paint. But if I come across another one cheap, I'm on it!