I want to build a shelf layout and I can't decide if I want to go N or HO. I want a lot of operational action and hidden staging. And I want to be able to switch from NS to Conrail and sometimes Penn Central. There aren't too many buildings so it shouldn't be too rough. I just have to change out automobiles. Big Scenery would be a plus so maybe N-scale.
I thought for the prototype, I go with this. I'm aware I have to use selective compression. How would you do it? Stein, Chad, Dog, you out there?
Mods--There were instructions on how to link so there is your permission.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
I have a 2 x 8 shelf layout in n-scale, and --- it ain't gonna fit.
You ready to start working in z?
heh heh heh ... it DOES have the potential for a lot of operations.
Oh, no...you don't want to go with anything as large as N.
You REALLY want T-gauge.
Robert Beaty
The Laughing Hippie
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The CF-7...a waste of a perfectly good F-unit!
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the
end of your tunnel, Was just a freight train coming
your way. -Metallica, No Leaf Clover
Take a hard look at Z scale for something that size in that space. I have a friend who does Z, and he says they run good for their size. You don't have to worry much about super detailing; who would see it? There is more North American prototype stuff coming on the market all the time.
Hey Chip, you always like a challenge, don't you??
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
Chip-"N" sounds like the way to go.The only real suggestion I can make is to use one of the available layout programs and see what you can come up with.I use XTrakCad.My layout is also 2'x8' but I'm in HO.It's an industrial switching layout.
Your idea is very ambitious and I wish you luck with it.Using a program like I mentioned will enable you to see what you can and can't do.I went through many changes before I got one that worked.Bob
Mouse - Are you serious?
Because that's one heck of a challenge for "Selective Compression"
This space reserved for SpaceMouse's future presidential candidacy advertisements
Well, I'd vote for N scale, though obviously you are not building that!
With N, you could get turned around, and get your stagin underneath. The curves would be awful looking, but you could hide them, for the most part, and run down the back to get to the staging below, I think.
What the heck! Draw something out!
Jeff But it's a dry heat!
A scale small enough to fit on a 2x8 would be microscopic. Just think how perfect your trackwork would need to be...
Seriously, I would pic only a small chunk of that yard. You can see from the pic that there are many different things going on. There is an engine terminal, container yard, that are with an overhead crane (rip track?), and what looks to be a running repair shop. It may be possible to fit one of these on a 2x8, even in HO.
Chuckle not, oh intergalactic cheese eater...
This here yard occupies a space no wider than 2' and about 8' long. It's got enough working space to push about 20 trains of 20 carlengths through in a typical 4 hour session. It also sports a good size working engine terminal capable of housing almost 30 locomotives at any given moment.
Remember, it's not how big it is... it's how you use it!
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
SpaceMouse wrote: I want to build a shelf layout and I can't decide if I want to go N or HO. I want a lot of operational action and hidden staging. And I want to be able to switch from NS to Conrail and sometimes Penn Central. There aren't too many buildings so it shouldn't be too rough. I just have to change out automobiles. Big Scenery would be a plus so maybe N-scale. I thought for the prototype, I go with this. I'm aware I have to use selective compression. How would you do it? Stein, Chad, Dog, you out there?Mods--There were instructions on how to link so there is your permission.
From what I see its one NS yard and a CSX yard, where is it. I like the prototype idea, I think you should use HO, more detail, but for long train N
Hmmm - I realize that you are almost certainly joking, but would it be possible to get a nice big yard "look and feel" in 2x8 feet ?
What be the druthers and givens, sir AstroRodent ?
In particular, the biggest question would be whether this could be a section of a bigger layout (so e.g. the yard lead can extend off the layout) or whether it needs to be capable of functioning as a standalone layout ?
If part of a bigger layout, N scale probably would make most sense, as Lee has illustrated very well in his post. You should be able can get a very nice big yard "feel" of long parallell (single ended) tracks in 2x8 feet in N-scale - the equivalent of 1.83 (160/87.1) x 8 feet (or 2 feet) = 14.6 feet by 3.6 feet in H0 scale.
The center set of tracks pictured looks like a hump yard (in principle single track spreading out to groups of tracks, tower on the left) ? Humping would probably be extremely hard to model in this space in N scale or bigger, and I suspect even Z scale would be very hard pressed there.
Anyways - how serious are you ? And what would be the druthers and givens ?
Grin, Stein
I'm totally serious.
I'm as serious as I am about modeling the tube from England to France. I'm planning on using pneumatics.
Phhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhht!
Though you could make a nice yard in 2x8 N scale!
Vail and Southwestern RR wrote: Phhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhht!Though you could make a nice yard in 2x8 N scale!
True, but I already have this one in HO. (and three other layout projects)
I've almost got two Normal trains for my office layout. I have a B&P Coal Drag with 10 90-ton hoppers so far. pulled by a GP-9 and a GP-38 (ordered today). And I have a NS mixed freight with about 10 cars, pulled by an SD60M & a Dash 8-40B. All I need to get that layout running is space to build the cabinet (which is a pretty major obstacle because I have a bunch of stuff from old office/store clogging the garage and layout room. But it keeps getting closer.
To tell the truth, I'm concerned the SD60M will make the 11.5 inch curves. It's a lot bigger than I expected.
I'll bet it will. Look like hell though.
What the heck are you doing up?
Hi SpaceMouse
I don't know the prototype not hard to work out why.
My first thought was "N" given what you want but then I thought an HO based on layout.
This is because the space is small and acuracy to the point of recognitian might be hard, but the potential for a realy good super detailed well sceniced layout that runs like a swiss watch is definatly there.
But concideration of your dream layout and the scale you already work in should also be given.
As a small laoyout like this can be incorperated into a much larger layout later shades of John Allen using the existing as part of a larger layout.
regards John Busby
SpaceMouse wrote: I'm totally serious.I'm as serious as I am about modeling the tube from England to France. I'm planning on using pneumatics.
LOL, well - I guess I won't need this plan then:
I did totally cheat - since I don't have all the necessary libraries ready for N and I am not used to thinking in N scale, I just took the 2x8 space, multiplied by 1.83 and made the rough assumtion that what I could fit in 3.5 x 14.5 foot layout in H0 should be possible to fit in a 2x8 in N scale.
It is pretty rough - but it should in principle be possible to have up to 4 trains (each consisting of a road engine + 10 40-foot cars) arriving at the yard, classification to happen, and up to 4 trains departing the yard, with one extra train starting the session on the A/D track "having just arrived" and one extra train ending the session on the A/D track ("waiting for the road engine"), for a total of 10 trains being broken down or built up during an operating session.
Arriving engines is staged with engine to the right, departing engines will end up in staging with engine on the left. So staging would have to be reset between each session - probably on the yard lead.
Backdrop would need to be low enough to peer over and reach over, using a step stool or some such thing.
Whether this plan would work in actual practice is anyone's guess.
Stein leave it to you to actaully selectively compress that yard into a 2 x 8. I don't feel bad putting you through it. I get the feeling you love design puzzles.
Vail and Southwestern RR wrote: I'll bet it will. Look like hell though.
My take too. I can't even test them at this point. I could sell them on eBay and get a couple Geeps. Trouble is the Geeps for sale seem to be high-noses and the one's here have the low noses. I'd rather have the larger engines like the one's my son and I see when we go out rail-fanning.
It's a railfan layout for my office that will be built into a bookcase.
Here's the room view.
I could try to squeeze an inch or two larger radius out of the area, but the larger the radius the more I encroach the window. Tight now I can still operate it. But the latches and crank would disappear should the radius grow.
Stein - That's one heck of a plan.
You've got room for some low-relief structures for an engine servicing area, and could even use the "switchback" on the opposite side to model the container yard and intermodal facility while keeping a couple of the storage tracks.
SpaceMouse wrote: Vail and Southwestern RR wrote: Phhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhht!Though you could make a nice yard in 2x8 N scale!True, but I already have this one in HO. (and three other layout projects)
First, the Old Flea Bag would suggest that unless you just won the lottery, that you choose one and only one scale and go with it. Otherwise, your financial resources will be spead to thin to accomplish any of them.
Second, if you have "good" eye sight and expect continue to have "good" vision, the Old Dog would suggest going with N-Scale to save space.
Third, the Old Mutt would suggest a N-Scale version of something like "The Schuylkill Iron Works" layout on page 40 of March 2008 MR. That would allow some staging along the back. And you could substitute your industries of choice or yard along the front.
Fourth, if possible, the Dog would suggest adding a right and left hand cutoff so in effect you have a loop to loop schmatic combined with a oval. The would allow any train to enter from the staging yard from either direction. It would also allow the staging to be run as "one-way" track.
Have fun
Edit
Maybe something like this