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2 x 8 Shelf Layout--HO or N?

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Posted by exPalaceDog on Monday, April 28, 2008 8:35 AM
 SpaceMouse wrote:
 Vail and Southwestern RR wrote:

Phhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhht!

Though you could make a nice yard in 2x8 N scale!

True, but I already have this one in HO. (and three other layout projects)

First, the Old Flea Bag would suggest that unless you just won the lottery, that you choose one and only one scale and go with it. Otherwise, your financial resources will be spead to thin to accomplish any of them.

Second, if you have "good" eye sight and expect continue to have "good" vision, the Old Dog would suggest going with N-Scale to save space.

Third, the Old Mutt would suggest a N-Scale version of something like "The Schuylkill Iron Works" layout on page 40 of March 2008 MR. That would allow some staging along the back. And you could substitute your industries of choice or yard along the front.

Fourth, if possible, the Dog would suggest adding a right and left hand cutoff so in effect you have a loop to loop schmatic combined with a oval. The would allow any train to enter from the staging yard from either direction. It would also allow the staging to be run as "one-way" track.

Have fun

Edit

Maybe something like this

 

 

 

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, April 27, 2008 12:49 PM
Sounds like N scale in your ticket
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Posted by GraniteRailroader on Sunday, April 27, 2008 9:54 AM

Stein - That's one heck of a plan.

You've got room for some low-relief structures for an engine servicing area, and could even use the "switchback" on the opposite side to model the container yard and intermodal facility while keeping a couple of the storage tracks. 

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Sunday, April 27, 2008 8:14 AM
 Vail and Southwestern RR wrote:

I'll bet it will.  Look like hell though.

My take too. I can't even test them at this point. I could sell them on eBay and get a couple Geeps. Trouble is the Geeps for sale seem to be high-noses and the one's here have the low noses. I'd rather have the larger engines like the one's my son and I see when we go out rail-fanning.

What the heck are you doing up?

It's a railfan layout for my office that will be built into a bookcase.

Here's the room view.

I could try to squeeze an inch or two larger radius out of the area, but the larger the radius the more I encroach the window. Tight now I can still operate it. But the latches and crank would disappear should the radius grow.

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Sunday, April 27, 2008 8:01 AM

Stein leave it to you to actaully selectively compress that yard into a 2 x 8. I don't feel bad putting you through it. I get the feeling you love design puzzles.

 

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by steinjr on Sunday, April 27, 2008 2:51 AM
 SpaceMouse wrote:

I'm totally serious.

I'm as serious as I am about modeling the tube from England to France. I'm planning on using pneumatics.  

LOL, well - I guess I won't need this plan then:

 

 I did totally cheat - since I don't have all the necessary libraries ready for N and I am not used to thinking in N scale, I just took the 2x8 space, multiplied by 1.83 and made the rough assumtion that what I could fit in 3.5 x 14.5 foot layout in H0 should be possible to fit in a 2x8 in N scale.

 It is pretty rough - but it should in principle be possible to have up to 4 trains (each consisting of a road engine + 10 40-foot cars) arriving at the yard, classification to happen, and up to 4 trains departing the yard, with one extra train starting the session on the A/D track "having just arrived" and one extra train ending the session on the A/D track ("waiting for the road engine"), for a total of 10 trains being broken down or built up during an operating session.

 Arriving engines is staged with engine to the right, departing engines will end up in staging with engine on the left. So staging would have to be reset between each session - probably on the yard lead.

 Backdrop would need to be low enough to peer over and reach over, using a step stool or some such thing.

 Whether this plan would work in actual practice is anyone's guess.

 Grin,
 Stein

 

 

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Posted by John Busby on Sunday, April 27, 2008 1:58 AM
 SpaceMouse wrote:

I want to build a shelf layout and I can't decide if I want to go N or HO. I want a lot of operational action and hidden staging. And I want to be able to switch from NS to Conrail and sometimes Penn Central. There aren't too many buildings so it shouldn't be too rough. I just have to change out automobiles. Big Scenery would be a plus so maybe N-scale.   

I thought for the prototype, I go with this. I'm aware I have to use selective compression. How would you do it? Stein, Chad, Dog, you out there?

Mods--There were instructions on how to link so there is your permission.

Hi SpaceMouse

I don't know the prototype not hard to work out why.

My first thought was "N" given what you want but then I thought an HO based on layout.

This is because the space is small and acuracy to the point of recognitian might be hard, but the potential for a realy good super detailed well sceniced layout that runs like a swiss watch is definatly there.

But concideration of your dream layout and the scale you already work in should also be given.

As a small laoyout like this can be incorperated into a much larger layout later shades of John Allen using the existing as part of a larger layout.

regards John Busby

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Posted by Vail and Southwestern RR on Sunday, April 27, 2008 1:46 AM

I'll bet it will.  Look like hell though.

What the heck are you doing up?

Jeff But it's a dry heat!

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Sunday, April 27, 2008 1:26 AM

I've almost got two Normal trains for my office layout. I have a B&P Coal Drag with 10 90-ton hoppers so far. pulled by a GP-9 and a GP-38 (ordered today). And I have a NS mixed freight with about 10 cars, pulled by an SD60M & a Dash 8-40B. All I need to get that layout running is space to build the cabinet (which is a pretty major obstacle because I have a bunch of stuff from old office/store clogging the garage and layout room. But it keeps getting closer.

To tell the truth, I'm concerned the SD60M will make the 11.5 inch curves. It's a lot bigger than I expected.

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by Vail and Southwestern RR on Sunday, April 27, 2008 1:13 AM
Rip that up and get some Normal track, Chip!  Think what you could do!

Jeff But it's a dry heat!

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Sunday, April 27, 2008 12:57 AM
 Vail and Southwestern RR wrote:

Phhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhht!

Though you could make a nice yard in 2x8 N scale!

True, but I already have this one in HO. (and three other layout projects)

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by Vail and Southwestern RR on Sunday, April 27, 2008 12:30 AM

Phhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhht!

Though you could make a nice yard in 2x8 N scale!

Jeff But it's a dry heat!

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Sunday, April 27, 2008 12:10 AM

I'm totally serious.

I'm as serious as I am about modeling the tube from England to France. I'm planning on using pneumatics.  

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by steinjr on Saturday, April 26, 2008 11:53 PM

 Hmmm - I realize that you are almost certainly joking, but would it be possible to get a nice big yard "look and feel" in 2x8 feet ?

 What be the druthers and givens, sir AstroRodent ?

 In particular, the biggest question would be whether this could be a section of a bigger layout (so e.g. the yard lead can extend off the layout) or whether it needs to be capable of functioning as a standalone layout ? 

 If part of a bigger layout, N scale probably would make most sense, as Lee has illustrated very well in his post. You should be able can get a very nice big yard "feel" of long parallell (single ended) tracks in 2x8 feet in N-scale - the equivalent of 1.83 (160/87.1) x 8 feet (or 2 feet) = 14.6 feet by 3.6 feet in H0 scale.

 The center set of tracks pictured looks like a hump yard (in principle single track spreading out to groups of tracks, tower on the left) ? Humping would probably be extremely hard to model in this space in N scale or bigger, and I suspect even Z scale would be very hard pressed there.

 Anyways - how serious are you ? And what would be the druthers and givens ?

 Grin,
 Stein

 

 

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Posted by Tjsingle on Saturday, April 26, 2008 9:48 PM
 SpaceMouse wrote:

I want to build a shelf layout and I can't decide if I want to go N or HO. I want a lot of operational action and hidden staging. And I want to be able to switch from NS to Conrail and sometimes Penn Central. There aren't too many buildings so it shouldn't be too rough. I just have to change out automobiles. Big Scenery would be a plus so maybe N-scale.   

I thought for the prototype, I go with this. I'm aware I have to use selective compression. How would you do it? Stein, Chad, Dog, you out there?

Mods--There were instructions on how to link so there is your permission.

From what I see its one NS yard and a CSX yard, where is it. I like the prototype idea, I think you should use HO, more detail, but for long train N

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Posted by wm3798 on Saturday, April 26, 2008 9:21 PM

Chuckle not, oh intergalactic cheese eater...

This here yard occupies a space no wider than 2' and about 8' long.  It's got enough working space to push about 20 trains of 20 carlengths through in a typical 4 hour session.  It also sports a good size working engine terminal capable of housing almost 30 locomotives at any given moment.

 

 

Remember, it's not how big it is... it's how you use it!Big Smile [:D]

Lee 

Route of the Alpha Jets  www.wmrywesternlines.net

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Posted by chadw on Saturday, April 26, 2008 8:42 PM

A scale small enough to fit on a 2x8 would be microscopic.  Just think how perfect your trackwork would need to be...Shock [:O]

Seriously, I would pic only a small chunk of that yard.  You can see from the pic that there are many different things going on.  There is an engine terminal, container yard, that are with an overhead crane (rip track?), and what looks to be a running repair shop.  It may be possible to fit one of these on a 2x8, even in HO.

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Posted by trainfan1221 on Saturday, April 26, 2008 8:32 PM
Dream big I guess.   Or model in G scale and take over your whole block.
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Posted by selector on Saturday, April 26, 2008 6:58 PM
To me it's a no-brainer.  With your givens already, and with the small space, you really have little practical choice.  Nano-technology.  Otherwise, the next biggest market is N.
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Posted by Vail and Southwestern RR on Saturday, April 26, 2008 6:51 PM

Well, I'd vote for N scale, though obviously you are not building that!

With N, you could get turned around, and get your stagin underneath.  The curves would be awful looking, but you could hide them, for the most part, and run down the back to get to the staging below, I think.

What the heck!  Draw something out!

Jeff But it's a dry heat!

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Posted by GraniteRailroader on Saturday, April 26, 2008 6:03 PM

Mouse - Are you serious?

Because that's one heck of a challenge for "Selective Compression" Whistling [:-^]

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 26, 2008 6:01 PM

Chip-"N" sounds like the way to go.The only real suggestion I can make is to use one of the available layout programs and see what you can come up with.I use XTrakCad.My layout is also 2'x8' but I'm in HO.It's an industrial switching layout.

Your idea is very ambitious and I wish you luck with it.Using a program like I mentioned will enable you to see what you can and can't do.I went through many changes before I got one that worked.Bob 

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Posted by G Paine on Saturday, April 26, 2008 6:00 PM

Take a hard look at Z scale for something that size in that space. I have a friend who does Z, and he says they run good for their size. You don't have to worry much about super detailing; who would see it? There is more North American prototype stuff coming on the market all the time. Tongue [:P]

Hey Chip, you always like a challenge, don't you?? Big Smile [:D]

George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch 

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Posted by Arjay1969 on Saturday, April 26, 2008 5:59 PM

Oh, no...you don't want to go with anything as large as N.

You REALLY want T-gauge. Big Smile [:D]

Robert Beaty

The Laughing Hippie

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The CF-7...a waste of a perfectly good F-unit!

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Posted by Kenfolk on Saturday, April 26, 2008 5:47 PM

I have a 2 x 8 shelf layout in n-scale, and --- it ain't gonna fit.

You ready to start working in z? 

heh  heh heh ... it DOES have the potential for a lot of operations. Big Smile [:D]

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Posted by SaltRiverRy on Saturday, April 26, 2008 5:45 PM
lol
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2 x 8 Shelf Layout--HO or N?
Posted by SpaceMouse on Saturday, April 26, 2008 5:40 PM

I want to build a shelf layout and I can't decide if I want to go N or HO. I want a lot of operational action and hidden staging. And I want to be able to switch from NS to Conrail and sometimes Penn Central. There aren't too many buildings so it shouldn't be too rough. I just have to change out automobiles. Big Scenery would be a plus so maybe N-scale.   

I thought for the prototype, I go with this. I'm aware I have to use selective compression. How would you do it? Stein, Chad, Dog, you out there?

Mods--There were instructions on how to link so there is your permission.

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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