When did the Soo Line first appear, where did it run and what became of it?.
Thanks in advance.
Tracklayer
http://kohlin.com/soo/soo-hist.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soo_Line_Railroad
http://www.pchswi.org/RRWEB/index.htm
Dave Nelson
Well without having access to my books right at the moment...the Minneapolis St.Paul and Sault Ste. Marie ("Sault" is pronounced like the name "Sue", hence "Soo Line") began around 1880, largely as a way for Minneapolis-based millers to ship flour and grain east. It ran in Upper Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota and North Dakota primarily, although it reached as far west as Montana and southeast to Chicago. It took over the Wisconsin Central in the 1800's, which remained on paper as a separate railroad until the early 1960's when the MStP&SSM and WC merged into the new "Soo Line Railroad". (WC equipment had their own numbering system, and had a small "wc" on them, otherwise they were painted in standard Soo colors.) The Soo also acquired the Duluth South Shore and Atlantic about the same time, and later got the Minneapolis Northfield and Southern and in the eighties the Milwaukee Road.
Early on the Soo was partly owned by the Canadian Pacific, in fact James J. Hill (when he was on the CP board) wanted to use the Soo as part of the CP mainline...run east thru Canada to Sault Ste. Marie Ontario, cross to Sault Ste. Marie Michigan, then over to Mpls/St.Paul, then back up to Winnepeg...but CP decided on an all Canada route. Oddly enough, many CP trains today going from coast to coast follow a similar route.
After NAFTA allowed Canadian companies to own US companies outright (instead of limiting them to 49% of the stock) the SOO was merged into CP, although it technically still exists on paper and CP has been pretty relaxed about re-painting equipment. I see Soo engines a lot here in St.Paul, 15 years after the merger.
BTW when the Soo took over WC, WC's passenger cars were primarily made up of unpainted varnished redwood cars. The Soo painted it's passenger cars maroon to match them, and in time CP liked the color and did the same. Both the Soo and CP used maroon as their primary passenger car / diesel color until the 1960's, when Soo went for white and red and CP created the red white and black "Action Red" CP Rail scheme.
dknelson wrote: http://kohlin.com/soo/soo-hist.htmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soo_Line_Railroadhttp://www.pchswi.org/RRWEB/index.htmDave Nelson
Thanks a lot Dave. I greatly appreciate the quick response.
wjstix wrote: Well without having access to my books right at the moment...the Minneapolis St.Paul and Sault Ste. Marie ("Sault" is pronounced like the name "Sue", hence "Soo Line") began around 1880, largely as a way for Minneapolis-based millers to ship flour and grain east. It ran in Upper Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota and North Dakota primarily, although it reached as far west as Montana and southeast to Chicago. It took over the Wisconsin Central in the 1800's, which remained on paper as a separate railroad until the early 1960's when the MStP&SSM and WC merged into the new "Soo Line Railroad". (WC equipment had their own numbering system, and had a small "wc" on them, otherwise they were painted in standard Soo colors.) The Soo also acquired the Duluth South Shore and Atlantic about the same time, and later got the Minneapolis Northfield and Southern and in the eighties the Milwaukee Road.Early on the Soo was partly owned by the Canadian Pacific, in fact James J. Hill (when he was on the CP board) wanted to use the Soo as part of the CP mainline...run east thru Canada to Sault Ste. Marie Ontario, cross to Sault Ste. Marie Michigan, then over to Mpls/St.Paul, then back up to Winnepeg...but CP decided on an all Canada route. Oddly enough, many CP trains today going from coast to coast follow a similar route.After NAFTA allowed Canadian companies to own US companies outright (instead of limiting them to 49% of the stock) the SOO was merged into CP, although it technically still exists on paper and CP has been pretty relaxed about re-painting equipment. I see Soo engines a lot here in St.Paul, 15 years after the merger.BTW when the Soo took over WC, WC's passenger cars were primarily made up of unpainted varnished redwood cars. The Soo painted it's passenger cars maroon to match them, and in time CP liked the color and did the same. Both the Soo and CP used maroon as their primary passenger car / diesel color until the 1960's, when Soo went for white and red and CP created the red white and black "Action Red" CP Rail scheme.
Once in a great while I see a Soo car come through down here in south Texas, but that's a very rare thing...
Thanks a lot for the info wjstix.
The original or old SOO was formed in 1883 and was finished by 1917. Minneapolis grain dealers created the railroad. The purpose of the railroad was to escape the Chicago grain tariffs. This was to be accomplished by a connection with the CP railroad at Sault Saint Marie Michigan / Sault Saint Marie Ontario, traveling across Michigan's Upper Peninsula. The nickname for this area is the SOO and it is also the location of the SOO Locks.
The modern SOO Line was formed by a merger of 3 railroads: The Minneapolis, St. Paul and Sault Saint Marie (old SOO), the Duluth, South Shore and Atlantic (DSS&A) and the original Wisconsin Central. Other than a small WC stenciled on the locos and 4 digit road numbers, a WC engine was undistinguishable from its MSP&SSM counterpart. The merger of the three railroads occurred late in 1960.
During the 80s the SOO purchased the Minneapolis, Northfield and Southern and then the Milwaukee Road.
The Milwaukee purchase happened in a strange way. The SOO purposely bid a lower price then the CNW for the Milwaukee Road, with the intent being to merely gain track age rights to Kansas City. A judge awarded the MILW to the SOO on the basis than less track age would be abandoned along with other issues.
After the acquisition on the MILW, much of the SOO was deemed surplus and sold to the new Wisconsin Central.
During the 90s, the SOO was merged into the CP but still exists on paper, as does the DH.
Jim
Here are some others
http://www.mountainrailway.com/SOO%20Line%20Roster%20Archive/Soo%20Line%20Motive%20Power.htm
http://sooline.dieselrosters.com/
http://www.sooline.org/home.html
Soo / CP still use a couple of cabooses (one white, one brown, both rusty) on runs from Pig's Eye (former Milwaukee Road) yard down to the Marathon refinery by 70th and Hwy 10/61.
BTW Soo bought the Minneapolis Northfield & Southern in 1982 because it gave them a connection between Minneapolis and Northfield (south of the Twin Cities) - they were trying to buy the ex-Rock Island "spine line" which ran down to Kansas City. The Rock only made it up to Northfield, then used trackage rights to gain access to the Twin Cities, so the Soo needed a connection between Northfield and their own trackage which was primarily north of downtown Minneapolis. The MN&S already ran to Soo's Shoreham yards/shops, even rented out four stalls in the Shoreham roundhouse.
That's a very interesting discussion for me - and a lot of information.
Thank you!
Wolfgang
Pueblo & Salt Lake RR
Come to us http://www.westportterminal.de my videos my blog
wjstix wrote:Soo / CP still use a couple of cabooses (one white, one brown, both rusty) on runs from Pig's Eye (former Milwaukee Road) yard down to the Marathon refinery by 70th and Hwy 10/61. BTW Soo bought the Minneapolis Northfield & Southern in 1982 because it gave them a connection between Minneapolis and Northfield (south of the Twin Cities) - they were trying to buy the ex-Rock Island "spine line" which ran down to Kansas City. The Rock only made it up to Northfield, then used trackage rights to gain access to the Twin Cities, so the Soo needed a connection between Northfield and their own trackage which was primarily north of downtown Minneapolis. The MN&S already ran to Soo's Shoreham yards/shops, even rented out four stalls in the Shoreham roundhouse.
Some good links provided so far. Here's one more, where you can find help, info, and advice from a variety of Soo Line experts:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SooLineHistory/
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Plenty of old Soo and Milwaukee Road locos and rolling stock come through here (Thief River Falls) every day :)
Bunch always parked in the yard here too.
Here is some more information before this thread falls into the forum achieves.
Prior to the MSP&SSM, WC and DSS&A, merger, it was decided a new paint scheme would be designed for the old SOO / WC. This scheme was a very plain paint job based on the old SOO maroon but minus all the gold on the sides and nose.
An employee, Wallace W Abbey decided this was not the best image for the new company. Mr. Abbey would later author a book based on the SOOs diesels called The Little Jewel, a very good book.
After acquiring some plaster of paris models from EMD, Abbey had this scheme applied to the models and presented them to new SOO president Leonard Murray. Murray, who was not pleased with this new image, assigned Abbey the task of designing a new scheme.
The CN hired a professional firm to help design its scheme and was publishing the results within the railroad industry. Abbey used this information and started to paint more plaster models in various potential schemes.
It was decided that the white (light gray) and red was the winner. The first loco painted was finished with a thinner incorrect font and was revised to the larger SOO logo. The first new locos delivered were the 2 Alco RS 27s.
Later a parallelogram SOO font was applied to a few U30Cs, SD 40s and some SWs in house. The separation line between white / red was also straightened out.
The parallelogram was dropped and a return to the prior black SOO font was used.
The first GP 38-2s were delivered in a red SOO font for a short time. This was also dropped in favor of the black font.
After the Milwaukee purchase, the SOO changed its scheme to a candy apple red. A parallelogram was once again used, this time in white lettering.
SD 60s were the first new units delivered in the red scheme. The red candy apple was used for subsequent repaints on the rest of the fleet.
I always liked the old $ sign logo.
Ok another question:
When was the Wisconsin Central line from Plover to Portage abandon?
The P-Line (as the Stevens Point-Portage branch was called) was abandoned in 1945- the last train ran over the line in November of that year, and the branch was dismantled the following year.
Pieces of the P-Line still exist though in small parts- Between Point and Plover a combination of the old P-Line and the GBW Point branch are used by the CN, and in Portage itself the CP still uses a small stub of the line to reach a fuel dealer just north of Portage Jct.
In reference to the original WC- the Soo line took over the Wisconsin Central in 1909 and did not fully merge the WC until January 1, 1961.
The Parallelogram Logo came about in 1974.
The SOO GP38-2 units were delivered in 1977 with SOO in Red 3M Scotchlite. Scotchlite is retroreflective and was previously applied as just stripes on the locomotives. The SOO GP38-2s were delivered in numbers at the end of the 700 series. In 1978-1979 it was decided to renumber them into the 4400 number series when the next group of SOO GP38-2s were delivered because the U30Cs occupied the 800 number series. The Red 3M Scotchlite remained on the first GP38-2s except for the completely repainted units.
Soo Line freight cars used to frequently roll through Michigan on the GTW-CN in the 1990's. In the 2000's with the ICE spin-off, retirement of aluminium hoppers, closing of paper plants, the lease change of the SOO SD60's, and CN traffic changes the Soo Line equipment is quickly becoming rare. Good thing I got photos when I could.
Andrew
Watch my videos on-line at https://www.youtube.com/user/AndrewNeilFalconer
During the late ‘80s SOO purchased 3 SD 45s to use as parts sources for a deal rebuilding engines for Helm Leasing. They were supposed to rebuild 45 ex Conrail SDP 45s that were originally from Erie Lackawanna.
Anyway, the deal with Helm fell through as whoever needed to lease these engines changed their mind.
SOO ended up using parts from the 3rd SD 45 to get the other 2 running. This was done to tide them over till SD 60s arrived.
The 2 SD 45s were used in mainline service but unreliability caused them to be used in transfer service.
The 2 engines were numbered 6491 and 6492.
http://sooline.dieselrosters.com/photo.aspx?lineageId=481&photoId=988
http://sooline.dieselrosters.com/photo.aspx?lineageId=482&photoId=1453
WC fan has some interesting information regarding the 6491 and hopefully he will be along to share.
Does anyone know about the disposition of the 6492?
By the way, Soo Line fans, this is the weekend (December 14 and 15, 2007) to see a Soo Line 2-8-2, No. 1003, in full steam and in deep snow in Plymouth Wisconsin for a Santa train event. It will be going from Hartford WI to Plymouth on Friday, then will be on display Friday night and Saturday morning, and steam back to Hartford WI. I believe for this run they will be using a Milwaukee Road caboose (they are running on former Milwaukee Road tracks) rather than their old wood Soo Line caboose which they often use for photo freights.
When not in steam, the 1003 is housed at the auto museum in Hartford WI (north and west of Milwaukee and not a far drive). The auto museum is worth a visit in its own right.
This will cap off another good 2007 steam season in this part of the midwest. We have seen Milwaukee Road 4-8-4 261, CP's 4-6-4 2816 (in a double header!), and the ex Soo Line 1003. Now if only we could encourage the UP to bring back one or both of its steam locomotives.
Yep Jim and others, I found out some surprising facts about SOO 6491. Ran across this when I was looking at a few sites at the same time. Here's what I got
SOO 6491 had originally started out as Saint Louis and San Francisco (Frisco[SLSF]) SD45 number 909. She was built in Setember 1969. After the BN merger she got renumbered to 6658. Some time after it got renumbered again to BN 6491. Soo Line wound up with her in 1987, right when WC was getting started. As you can see by the pictures Jim posted, it got patched like the MILW units did. In 1992 she got retired and got sold to MKCX (Morrision Knudeson) Well when she got on MKCX she got renumbered to 9528(Sorry Jim I gave you the wrong number in the PM.). This is where it starts getting interesting, well for me anyway. MKCX sold it to Wisconsin Central (WC) some time in the mid 90s.
WC renumber her to 6638, close to her original BN number. In between the time from 1997 and 1998 WC 6638 got rebuilt by WC. She got new control systems, either the EM 2000 system, or the Q-Tron system. Electrical Cabinet upgrades, main generator replacement and other high Voltage upgrades went along with this. By the end of the rebuilding her current weight was 374,000 Pounds. Lighter then most WC SD45 where in the range or close to 382,000 pound and 391,000 pounds. After this she got her new number, 7638, and a Shiny new paint scheme, the WC OLS.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=163406
After the CN merger she got sent all over the system, until sadly some time in late 2006 she got retired.
EDIT: Ran across this site on a Google search. http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr2073.htm Basicaly sums up what I said. (Although I didn't use this site for the info I posted above.)
(I'm pretty sure most, if not all of this info was accurate. I got this from internet resource. )
My Youtube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/JR7582 My Flickr Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/wcfan/
To fill in the gaps, It was Q Tron (the only units that got the EM 2000 were the 74XXs) (7495,7496,7498,and 7499). You can tell by the tubing that goes to the truck axles. Q trons had them like this on the conductors side: (look at it like a truck frame, if it has Q its where the wires went, and if its an O its without the wires)
(Q)--(Q)--(O) [FUEL TANK] (Q)--(O)--(O)
On EM 2000s, there was only one tube that went to an axle, and it was on the middle axle on the first truck on the conductors side, which I believe didnt even have anything to do with the new system, just the speed meter.
Hopefully that helps (yes, I was bored...)
She also had her trucks rebuilt just like most all WC SD45s did, which made them ride like glass right up until they were retired in 2006/2007.
Alec