Tortoise and 2" foam

[Blind Bruce]

I have just tried out my first Tortoise on my HO curved code 83 turnout (Walthers/Shinohara, DCC friendly). It is located under cork roadbed and 2" foam plus 7/8" plywood (about 3"). I have increased the diameter of the spring wire to .032" and it is still jerky. The wire is vertical when the Tortoise is centered. The dimeter if the hole under the turnout is 3/8" and doesn't appear to be touching the wire. I have filed the cork directly under the throwhar and the points seem to be as free as they are when not mounted. The wire is through the end of the throwbar. Should I try a larger wire? What if I ran the wire through one of the holes in the points to more or less center the force of the wire?

[Milwhiawatha]

i ran what Circuitron used but made it of course longer. I adjusted the slider that comes with the tortoise. I'm going through 1/2'" ply 2" foam and woodland scenics foam roadbed and I dont have an issue. However in the recent yr I believe MR did an article on mounting tortoises into foam . You would take and cut out the top of the foam the size of the body of the tortoise (not the mounting area. The n you would lay the tack over that. I'm using this method on the top portion of the railroad. I hated trying to get the tortoises and switces to work right from under ther table.

[larak]

Hi Bruce,

If the throw is jerky then the wire could still be hanging up somewhere. This happened to me on a similar setup. The plywood had a small splinter blocking part of the hole. I use 1/2" holes and .039" wire. I also now ream the bottom of the hole a bit to clean out any rough edges. With a 3/8" hole you need to be pretty careful with centering too.  Maybe you can get a better idea of what is happening from beneath the layout.

Also I have most of mine hooked up to a drilled hole in the center of the throwbar. Your observation about the end hole might be valid.

I hope that this helps.

Karl 

[Blind Bruce]

Karl gave me a hint that I followed up on about a splinter. Well, they don't call me Blind Bruce fer nuttin. My 3/8" hole was not vertical! It was off in both directions causing binding of the wire as it ran through its motion. I am now trying to straighten it up to be plumb. Very necessary when going through 3" of stuff.

Thanks guys,

[electrolove]

Blind Bruce,

This is a better solution.

[NevinW]

Do you cut the square area in the foam that the board fits into with the exacto blade? It looks really flat and a perfect fit. Where do you buy the pc board, Radio Shack? - Nevin

[electrolove]

The pictures you see is not me doing it, just something I found on the net. But I have tried it myself and you can use 1/4" plywood instead (glued with latex caulk) of the pc board. I used a woodland scenic foam knife to cut the hole. I don't know what the guys in the pictures used to make it perfect. I don't use foam anymore. This is my attempt, you can see the plywood under the turnouts. Worked really good.

Do you cut the square area in the foam that the board fits into with the exacto blade? It looks really flat and a perfect fit. Where do you buy the pc board, Radio Shack? - Nevin

[johncolley]

'Lectro, great set of pic's worth 10, 000 words! I do very similar with 1/4" plywood 3x3"set in flush with the top surface, then I mount the tortoise flush with one edge and offset the through hole 2 1/4 square ( I can change out the Tortoise if needed) so that the wire is clear of the ply. I use a 1/8x1/2" slot in the cork. Using .032 wire on CV turnouts with the wire centered between the points. Happy railroading! jc5729 John Colley, Port Townsend, WA

[Anonymous]

Will that work with plywood underneath the foam? Or will I have to cut that too?

[johncolley]

Ty, there are two problems with bottom mounting: first, because of the distance you have to use a really strong wire, and second, you have to brace the plywood in place 24 hours while the glue cures. I prefer the top mount as I can just silicone it in place after test fitting. To lay it out put your turnout in position and mark the tangent (straight) track centerline and the centerline of the throwbar at right angles. jc5729 John Colley, Port Townsend, WA

[Anonymous]

Oh, I meant the top mount. The issue with the plywood was that the bottom of the Tortoise would rest on the plywood, making the top higher than track leval.

[jxtrrx]

This issue is one of many reasons that on my second layout I ditched the foam and went back to good 'ol 5/8" plywood.  Life is better now.

[DigitalGriffin]

Circuitron states that the tortoise should NOT be more than 1" below the throw bar.  You're magnifying the movement the further you move it from the throwbar.  This is most likely the jerkiness you are observing.

You can easily mount a tortoise below the foam board.  Just grab a dremel and carve out the offendning foam and mount it to a circuit board as someone above already kindly posted.

If you don't want to carve up your track and foam, you might want to try this remote adapter plate which makes the motion linear.

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/800-6100

 

[TheK4Kid]

It is my guess that they used a router to cut the square hole which is also nice and flat.

Looks like a good idea.I would also say, you cold probably go as deep as 1 inch into the foam, or do the same thing from the underside of the table,then mount your tortoise on a piece of circuit board, or even lite aircraft plywood( available from LHS), then just epoxy the plywood to the foam.

 

TheK4Kid 

[Blind Bruce]

I thout about top mounting but how on earth do you service it if a wire breaks or something? You would have to remove the turnout, ballast and roadbed causing a lot of additional problems.

[DigitalGriffin]

I thout about top mounting but how on earth do you service it if a wire breaks or something? You would have to remove the turnout, ballast and roadbed causing a lot of additional problems.

Cut a hole in the bottom of the layout and use an edge connector.  It would pull/push off and on without moving the tortoise.

Drill two holes; one on the far left side, and one on the far right side.  Take a hand jigsaw and cut between the two holes to make room for pushing the connector through.

I don't have the instructions with me on how to mount a tortoise.  But on that sheet they list the spacing specs, and where you can find an edge connector.

 

 

 

[grayfox1119]

For many modelers who already have their tracks glued/nailed in place on their choice of roadbed, you cannot easily surface mount the tortoises imbeded into the foam ( assuming you are using 2" foam as Bruce and some others are ).  I am mounting mine under the table so that I can get at the motors easily for adjustments or repairs in the future. ( Nothing lasts forever except death and taxes ) Again, this is all personal choice, but I sure don't like to have anything that I may need to get at in the future, buried under my tracks where I would have to pull up track to effect repairs........no way Jose !!!

[Gazoo]

> Cut a hole in the bottom of the layout and use an edge connector.  It would pull/push off and
>  on without moving the tortoise.

For those of us a little slower on the uptake, could you try that explanation again?  This is of great interest to me and I'd like to make sure I understand.

Is this how you do it, or a hypothetical way to do it?

[electrolove]

I have done this myself so I know that it works.

When you mount a tortoise on a bit a plywood, you can take the tortoise away for service whenever you need. Just use a long screwdriver and you will be able to reach the 4 screws that are holding it to the plywood. First you cut a hole for the plywood from the top. Then you cut a hole in the middle of that for the tortoise. Cut that hole larger then the tortoise so you can use a screwdriver from underneath the foam. You will position the screwdriver between the tortoise and the foam. No problem at all.

[Gazoo]

Sorry, I can't say that I follow you completely.  But let me try to repeat it and see how close I get.

1.  Cut a hole in the foam
2.  Then cut a hole in the plywood base that is smaller than the hole I cut into the foam but larger than the tortoise. 
3.  Screw the tortoise into a piece of plywood that is larger than the hole cut into the plywood base from #2, but smaller than the hole cut into the foam from #1.
4.  Glue / screw the plywood piece that's attached to the tortoise into the plywood base.
5.  At this point, you are closer to the track by the thickness of the plywood attached to the tortoise. And all you have to do is unscrew the tortoise and take it away when necessary. 
6.  Alternatively you say "Gazoo you're completely lost."

Total newbie question alert: Is it very difficult to fish the wire back up through the hole in the switch?

How about this solution: cut a hole in the foam / plywood base about the size of the tortoise, then glue miniature L brackets to the bottom of the tortoise.  Would that allow you to move the tortoise within an inch of the roadbed?  Screw the L brackets into the plywood base, and whenever you need to service it just unscrew the L brackets. 

[DigitalGriffin]

6.  Alternatively you say "Gazoo you're completely lost."

I'll take option 6 please.

If you wish to mount from the top (And not use the adapter plate which makes this whole discussion moot)

See electro's post.

Like this...

^^^^^^^^^^Mounted to "Bread board" commonly found at radio shack.  It's real easy to cut/score & snap with a knife or dremmel.

This foam sits on top the plywood.  Cut a hole in the plywood just big enough to pass an edge connector through from the bottom side.  (This is where your wiring connections go.)  The edge connector is removeable.  That way if a wire ever breaks, or you need to wire up leads, or switches you can easily add them.

The likelihood of ever having to replace your tortoise is small.  They are tough lil motors.  I have yet to hear of an actual tortoise failure!  I have heard of terminals 2/3 and 6/7 being on at the same time.  A quick one time fix before installation should take care of this.