coborn35 wrote: riogrande5761 wrote:and this relates to model trains how?Are you serious dude?Get a heart, I think they are on sale.
riogrande5761 wrote:and this relates to model trains how?
Are you serious dude?
Get a heart, I think they are on sale.
Easy now. You totally misunderstand me. I have a heart. I'll have to check the rules here but at Atlas, they have a rule that if you post there, it has to be related to trains. The reason is there are many general forums available for talking about your dog that died or the bridge that collapsed or the terrible Tsunami etc. The reason for those rules isn't to be hard hearted, but to keep forums with specific topics from becoming flooded with all manner of discussion. I hope this clarifies that I do have a heart, and I care about those who were hurt in the disaster. I also prefer to talk about those things on forums which are for that purpose.
The reason I come here is to destress. Model Railroading is a hobby where I can forget world disasters, that divorce that I am going through, stress of work, etc etc. Then to be confronted with non-model train world disasters kind of defeats that for me and probably many others. Anyway, I will check the rules just to make sure I am not out of line in suggesting we keep things model train related here. After all, that is what the title is to this section.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Wayzata Modeler wrote: - there is no "dam" upstream but rather St. Anthony Falls which over the years has been transformed to a concrete spillway. Locks handle barge traffic around the concrete spillway. The main river channel is blocked from any boat traffic. It may be rail traffic may be called into service to deliver goods north of the site.<>
- there is no "dam" upstream but rather St. Anthony Falls which over the years has been transformed to a concrete spillway. Locks handle barge traffic around the concrete spillway. The main river channel is blocked from any boat traffic. It may be rail traffic may be called into service to deliver goods north of the site.
Between the bridge and St.Anthony Falls is a lock and dam, I thought I heard one news report call it "Lock and Dam no. 3" but I could be mistaken. Anyway, if you go to Google Maps and use the satellite or hybrid image it's very easy to see, it's maybe 100 yards upstream from the bridge; the falls are maybe 500 yards farther west.
Yes, the word dam is used, but I don't believe in the traditional sense - only in association with the lock system. Rather then blocking river flow, the "dams" create controlled/stepped elevation changes in lieu of the natural waterfalls and block any watercraft from not using the lock system. But I am CFO, not an engineer!
There is a low level dam upstream of the bridge site. This is a strange failure to me, especially after looking at the video. Reminds me of the Silver Bridge that collapsed in Point Pleasant, but this was a totally different design, and briges like this one are not supposed to "all fall down" just because one span fails. They are not supposed to be interdependent. But, on the video the main span drops and then seconds later, the next span goes down. Not good. And, it is my understanding that the main span was not even the first one to fail.
Something was wrong, that's for sure. Now it's time for "the blame game", and the sure fire governmental solution to everything - throw money at it. Unfortunately, it will be our money.
There was a program on the History Channel last night about bridge collapses. They basically did individual stories about bridge failures in Oakland, CA (earthquake,) Connecticut (weather and stress deterioration,) upstate New York (underwater pier failure from rushing water,) Tampa, FL (tanker collision) and a couple more after I had to go to sleep.
There were really only two causes, though. Either the bridge was under-designed and didn't account for the range of calamities that could befall it, or it wasn't properly inspected and maintained. The good news is that bridges being built now are much more able to withstand all the stresses frome both normal and unusual events, and known weak points (like the hanger straps in Connecticut) have been recognized and retrofitted with better solutions.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
riogrande5761 wrote: coborn35 wrote: riogrande5761 wrote:and this relates to model trains how?Are you serious dude?Get a heart, I think they are on sale.Easy now. You totally misunderstand me. I have a heart. I'll have to check the rules here but at Atlas, they have a rule that if you post there, it has to be related to trains. The reason is there are many general forums available for talking about your dog that died or the bridge that collapsed or the terrible Tsunami etc. The reason for those rules isn't to be hard hearted, but to keep forums with specific topics from becoming flooded with all manner of discussion. I hope this clarifies that I do have a heart, and I care about those who were hurt in the disaster. I also prefer to talk about those things on forums which are for that purpose. The reason I come here is to destress. Model Railroading is a hobby where I can forget world disasters, that divorce that I am going through, stress of work, etc etc. Then to be confronted with non-model train world disasters kind of defeats that for me and probably many others. Anyway, I will check the rules just to make sure I am not out of line in suggesting we keep things model train related here. After all, that is what the title is to this section.
I misunderstood you too.
In the future, perhaps instead of making one line comments that can be misconstrued, click on the ‘Report Abuse' button and send a message to the moderators. Let them make the call without having to make it a public issue (which tends to get people riled up).
Also, if you don't want to read through topics like this, then perhaps you ought to simply pass them over. No one is forcing you to read through every topic on this forum.
Yes, a major disaster!
This is / was a VERY busy artery in the system and I pray the numbers (not taking into account the autos and trucks in the river, yet to be searched) are correct.
My father went over that bridge early that morning and a life long friend crossed it five times during his work shift. Thank God all of my friends and family are fine...
On the other hand, a co-worker's aunt is hospitalized in critical condition with at least a shattered knee and hip, after being caught on the bridge during it's collapse.
I pray for all the injured, still missing, and the rescue maintenance and recovery workers.
Here's a pic that helps get some perspective on the layout of the area:
http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/events/us/080107minnbridge&curPhoto=120
The view is looking generally west. The arch in the foreground is the Cedar Ave. bridge. Just beyond that is the wreckage of the 35W bridge. After that is a lock and dam. Farther in the distance you can see the arches of the old Great Northern stone arch bridge, the other side of that is St.Anthony Falls.
MAbruce wrote: riogrande5761 wrote: coborn35 wrote: riogrande5761 wrote:and this relates to model trains how?Are you serious dude?Get a heart, I think they are on sale.Easy now. You totally misunderstand me. I have a heart. I'll have to check the rules here but at Atlas, they have a rule that if you post there, it has to be related to trains. The reason is there are many general forums available for talking about your dog that died or the bridge that collapsed or the terrible Tsunami etc. The reason for those rules isn't to be hard hearted, but to keep forums with specific topics from becoming flooded with all manner of discussion. I hope this clarifies that I do have a heart, and I care about those who were hurt in the disaster. I also prefer to talk about those things on forums which are for that purpose. The reason I come here is to destress. Model Railroading is a hobby where I can forget world disasters, that divorce that I am going through, stress of work, etc etc. Then to be confronted with non-model train world disasters kind of defeats that for me and probably many others. Anyway, I will check the rules just to make sure I am not out of line in suggesting we keep things model train related here. After all, that is what the title is to this section.I misunderstood you too. In the future, perhaps instead of making one line comments that can be misconstrued, click on the ‘Report Abuse' button and send a message to the moderators. Let them make the call without having to make it a public issue (which tends to get people riled up). Also, if you don't want to read through topics like this, then perhaps you ought to simply pass them over. No one is forcing you to read through every topic on this forum.
Me too.
Shake?
When you live so close to a tradegy like this, and have traveled the bridge hundreds of times, most recently the night before, it really does hit home. The media pictures and videos don't do justice to the massive mess on our hands. Seeing this in person was gut wrenching.
I'm thankful I have Model Railroading as a diversion when life challenges us.
Thank You arthill for starting this discussion.
An interesting railroad tie in, an Op/Ed piece in the St.Paul Pioneer Press Sunday laid part of the blame on the bridge collapse on AMTRAK!!
The writer's point was that if the government hadn't barged in and wrestled control of US passenger train service from the poor private railroads, the government would have had more money to spend on maintaining road bridges.
wjstix wrote: The writer's point was that if the government hadn't barged in and wrestled control of US passenger train service from the poor private railroads, the government would have had more money to spend on maintaining road bridges.
Well, gee, if the government didn't spend so much money on cancer research, they'd have more to spend on road and bridge maintenance, too. They could also close down half of the fire departments, and forget about educating kids past the eighth grade. Sure, there are plenty of ways to find more money for bridge maintenance.
is the correct catagorization for that letter writer.
It is my understanding that there is 50+ years worth of money accumulated underneath DOT's carpeting.
OR did they spend it all quietly?