Overmod Why doesn't he just get one humongous latching relay for each set of feeders he wants to energize, and then wire as many momentary-contact pushbuttons to it as he wants "power on-off buttons" for that section. Each time you press any button, it toggles the relay -- if it was on, it will turn off; if it is off, it will turn it on. Then just have one big power-on LED per section, perhaps in something like a CTC board that shows the track layout, where you can see it.
Why doesn't he just get one humongous latching relay for each set of feeders he wants to energize, and then wire as many momentary-contact pushbuttons to it as he wants "power on-off buttons" for that section. Each time you press any button, it toggles the relay -- if it was on, it will turn off; if it is off, it will turn it on. Then just have one big power-on LED per section, perhaps in something like a CTC board that shows the track layout, where you can see it.
Regular relays are easily latched and unmatched with simple circuits, but using turnout position automates the process and streamlines the controls.
Sheldon
Hi Overmod,
Sheldon's solution meets my needs perfectly and it doesn't require any additional components, other than perhaps a few more feet of wire. Most importantly, I understand it! I won't have dedicated track power indicators or switches on the control panels, but that will make them considerably less cluttered which is a real bonus.
Cheers!!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
I haven't been following this thread too closely, but I'm not sure why power on/off swithches are needed for these dead end sidings.
If you were to use power routing turnouts would that not solve the on/off issue?
And if you have live turnouts could you not just use the extra Tortoise contact to provide power when the turnout is thrown?
maxman I haven't been following this thread too closely, but I'm not sure why power on/off swithches are needed for these dead end sidings. If you were to use power routing turnouts would that not solve the on/off issue? And if you have live turnouts could you not just use the extra Tortoise contact to provide power when the turnout is thrown?
Clearly you have not been following it. I recently suggested using the switch machines to power the sidings and Dave likes that idea.
how do the dwarf signals get wired? only one should be green, right?
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
Wiring diagram edited:
gregchow do the dwarf signals get wired? only one should be green, right?
Hi Greg,
The dwarf signals have a bi-colour red/green LEDs. I'm going to power them through the Tortoise motor feeds the same as any other LEDs would be wired for signals or track indication.
This is the power shut off wiring diagram. Does it work? I may have to move spur + feed from Tortoise #2 to #3:
gregc how do the dwarf signals get wired? only one should be green, right?
I'm pretty sure Dave just wants them to indicate turnout position, so it depends on where he wants to place them and are they three color or two color?
In any case they should be able to be wired to the directly to the Tortoise machine by one of several wiring schemes.
I want to bump this post up because I have changed the wiring diagram for the power shutoff to the spurs.
Is this correct?
I may have to move the spur + lead from Tortoise contact #2 to #3.
Thanks,
Yes, that should work fine.
Just keep in mind that on turnout #12, it should turn off the whole switch back siding on its straight thru route.
That will make #13 and #15 slaves to #12, leaving nothing on that leg powered when #12 is set to the ladder.
This fixes Gregs's concern that something would be left powered when it should be off.
hon30critterI also want to put dwarf signals indicating the power status.
Sheldon obviously has a better idea of what is desired.
gregc of course you can wire the tortoise switches in series to only provide power to the select ladder track, but then one spur will always powered.
without adding a single additional power switch, isn't one spur always powered?
gregc hon30critter I also want to put dwarf signals indicating the power status. Sheldon obviously has a better idea of what is desired. gregc of course you can wire the tortoise switches in series to only provide power to the select ladder track, but then one spur will always powered. without adding a single additional power switch, isn't one spur always powered?
hon30critter I also want to put dwarf signals indicating the power status.
To you question about one spur always being powered, no, not based on my understanding of the track diagram. Again, turnout 12 needs to isolate that whole leg.
it's not clear to me which tracks are to be powered off. i can understand that there is some switch to the mainline tracks through which power can be routed. wouldn't that be #11?
Here is the diagram again. The spurs coming off of turnouts 16, 14 and 12 will be powered off. The powered off section from #12 includes turnouts 13 and 15. All the spurs are dead ended.
Here is the whole layout again so you can see where the above panel fits in. The view is from the south side. Click on it twice to get a better view:
I was going to ask a question but I actually figured out the answer by myself! Shocking!! (But hopefully not electrically shocking!)
hon30critter The spurs coming off of turnouts 16, 14 and 12 will be powered off. The powered off section from #12 includes turnouts 13 and 15. All the spurs are dead ended.
since both diverging track from #12 need to be unpowered at the same time, it looks like the diverging path thru #11 is the switch to turns all the spurs off
gregc hon30critter The spurs coming off of turnouts 16, 14 and 12 will be powered off. The powered off section from #12 includes turnouts 13 and 15. All the spurs are dead ended. since both diverging track from #12 need to be unpowered at the same time, it looks like the diverging path thru #11 is the switch to turns all the spurs off
No Greg, the route on 12 that connects to 9 does not need to be powered off, only the dead end route from 12 needs to be powered off. 14 and 16 will kill their dead end spurs.
On his original sketch Dave indicated which tracks need to be able to be isolated.
13 and 15 need to isolate their sections, but they need to get their power feed thru 12, so that the whole zone is dead if 12 is aligned to 9.
That will give the same full flexibility shown on Dave's original drawing allowing the stub past 13 to be isolated and both legs at 15 to be isolated.
Dave may not need to isolate 13 and 15 as shown on his original drawing if 12 isolates that whole leg.
He is not running DC, He uses DCC, so he has no control issues with multiple locos on the 12, 13, 15 stub. But I am assuming he wants to park locomotives and not have them idling all the time.
Another feature of DCC that I don't like and just brings us back to conventional wiring to shut them off.
And they said in the beginning DCC would only require two wires.......
ATLANTIC CENTRALI am assuming he wants to park locomotives and not have them idling all the time.
Hi Sheldon,
That is exactly what I am trying to do. I want to have a switching locomotive parked on the spur west of turnout #15. Theoretically I will use that locomotive to move cars throughout the 16, 14, 12, 13 and 15 turnouts instead of bringing other locomotives onto the ladder, although there will be locomotives that pass through the ladder to drop cars off.
I'm still playing with the locations for the uncouplers (the orange circles) by the way.
Dave, thanks for the clarification. And happy I could offer a "streamlined" solution.
ATLANTIC CENTRALNo Greg, the route on 12 that connects to 9 does not need to be powered off,
not suggesting that it is
Hi Sheldon
I should have offered more details in the beginning in terms of what I was trying to do. I'll know better next time.
As far as thanks goes, it is I who should be thanking you!! I tried for several hours to make sense of the situation but i just kept drawing blanks. Your solution is elegant and easy to follow, and it cleans up my control panels considerably.
I laughed at your comment about DCC only requiring two wires! Ya right!!
maxman I haven't been following this thread too closely, but I'm not sure why power on/off swithches are needed for these dead end sidings.
I still haven't seen an answer to this question. For DCC there's no need, especially if the layout will only be powered on while it's actively operated. If sound is an issue, just park the locomtoive and turn the sound off.
And amazingly, all it needs is two wires.
AEP528 maxman I haven't been following this thread too closely, but I'm not sure why power on/off swithches are needed for these dead end sidings. I still haven't seen an answer to this question. For DCC there's no need, especially if the layout will only be powered on while it's actively operated. If sound is an issue, just park the locomtoive and turn the sound off. And amazingly, all it needs is two wires.
Watch out, Mr. AEP. You are allowing youself to be chastised as I was for asking a question, and then beng told that I was not paying attention, because the (non-obvious to me) answer was located 1 page and 9 posts previous.
That said, I believe that there is an even easier method to do what Dave wants to do than what has been proposed.
Get a couple NCE Mk2 switch-its. There would be some additional cost for these.
However, the double-pole/double throw switches can be eliminated, as well as all the interconnecting wire between the panels. That can be replaced by one push button at each panel.
For wiring suggestions see pages 2 and 5 of the following:
https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/article_attachments/200564139
Hi AEP528,
You are absolutely correct. I could simply just shut the sound off for the locomotives that are parked. The reason I want the power off is that I don't want to have to remove a bunch of locomotives from the layout every time I want to do some programming like speed matching where just using a programming track won't work.
In addition to the switcher in the industrial area, there will be several locomotives parked in the service area most of the time. I'd rather leave those engines in place than have to pull them all off and pack them up.
If I leave the power on everywhere I am enough of a klutz that I will mess up the programming on the locomotives that still have power. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it!
Thanks for bringing that option into the discussion.
You don't have to remove all the locos to do speed matching, or any other on the main programming. That only affects the locos you select.
And no, I've looked at your snow plow (plough?) thread and there is no possible way that you could ever be a klutz.
Hi maxman,
Perhaps speed matching was a bad example. I have read of incidents where locomotives were unintentionally reprogrammed because they were left on the layout when other locomotives were being programmed. I don't want to join that club.
maxman AEP528 maxman I haven't been following this thread too closely, but I'm not sure why power on/off swithches are needed for these dead end sidings. I still haven't seen an answer to this question. For DCC there's no need, especially if the layout will only be powered on while it's actively operated. If sound is an issue, just park the locomtoive and turn the sound off. And amazingly, all it needs is two wires. Watch out, Mr. AEP. You are allowing youself to be chastised as I was for asking a question, and then beng told that I was not paying attention, because the (non-obvious to me) answer was located 1 page and 9 posts previous. That said, I believe that there is an even easier method to do what Dave wants to do than what has been proposed. Get a couple NCE Mk2 switch-its. There would be some additional cost for these. However, the double-pole/double throw switches can be eliminated, as well as all the interconnecting wire between the panels. That can be replaced by one push button at each panel. For wiring suggestions see pages 2 and 5 of the following: https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/article_attachments/200564139
Maybe it is just me, but I don't join discussions mid stream without reading what others have wrote. Again maybe it is me who is unusual in that regard, my apologies.
As for using switch-its, or some other circuitry that would eliminate or minimize the amount of wiring, I suggested that but Dave is comfortable with the toggle switch solution.
I use relays and lighted pushbuttons and control all my turnouts at both local tower panels and on the dispatchers panel. With only one wire per "route" for both control and indication. At a cost way below the switch-it.
ATLANTIC CENTRALMaybe it is just me, but I don't join discussions mid stream without reading what others have wrote. Again maybe it is me who is unusual in that regard, my apologies.
No apology necessary. I actually did read all the preceeding posts. I was just confused by all the diagrams and some of the other non-relevent info.
hon30critterI don't want to join that club
I know you are no longer a club enthusiast. However the "program every loco I own to the same number" group is pretty large and we would be in good company
So, sound on or off, if a DCC loco is sitting on a hot track, the decoder is drawing some small amount if current.
How many parked locos is too many.
I have 145 locos/powered units that will be on the new layout all the time. If they draw 5 milliamps a piece, that is 0.725 amps total.
I would bet if the sound is left on, they draw more than that.