Hi Matt,
I spent a few minutes studying the board that you have chosen as well as their other distribution circuits. It all looks very usable so I don't think that you are wasting your money by investing in them.
I would add one caveat for future reference. If you get into coloured LEDs, i.e. for signals, using a standard 3 volts might not give you the best results. What can happen is that some coloured LEDs like red will be extremely bright and hard to look at whereas the yellow LEDs may be very dim. Your circuit board can still be used for those situations but I would set the output at 12 volts and use different valued resistors for each of the colours. For red, a 1K resistor will work. For yellow, you will want to go down to 180 ohms, and for green, 560 ohms is recommended. I believe these values were determined by RR_Mel (Melvin Perry, deceased) but I may be giving credit to the wrong person. Using three different resistors will result in even brightness from all three colours.
Cheers!!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
I ordered their DB05 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/154057237421).
Some very informative illustrations of the board are here: http://www.wehonest.net/index.php?route=information/information&information_id=12
Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.
Dave,
Wehonest has several different distribution boards. On them there is jumper which selects either 3 volts or board input voltage. Depending on the board there may be only one jumper or several.
Peter
If you already have some white LEDs, you can put a thin coat of yellow paint on them and they will become warm white.
Joe
Hi again Matt,
I just looked at the power distribution circuit board from Wehonest, and I have to correct an assumption that I had made. I didn't realize that the outputs were only 3 volts. I had assumed that the outputs were 12 volts. Therefore, there is no need for resistors if you use the board. The board also allows you to dim the LEDs if you so choose.
There are simpler and less expensive ways for you to power your LEDs but I won't distract you now by going into detail. If you want me to explain those options then just ask.
@Dave, this last from you explains everything else that I was still unclear on. Thank you very much. I'm going to order that distro board, I think, and I will go back and read through this entire thread again. People have given very specific recommendations for their favorite sources of resistors and pins and all the rest, and there are images to stare at. It's all here. What a great help you have all been, and I'm extra delighted because I hadn't even intended to make the kit lighted at first, and now it will not only be lighted but it has a working exterior lamp over the upper dock that was not part of the kit, but looks like it should have been. I'm very pleased.
I'll post a photo when I get it wired up, but I gotta plug those light leaks first :)
-Matt
I was using the term 'magnet wire' somewhat generically to refer to very fine wires with a very thin coating of insulation. Many of the pre-wired LEDs come with that type of wire attached, and as you have already noted, they are too thin to be clamped into the screw terminals.
I apologise for not explaining the use of the cut off resistor leads more clearly. In order to get the 'magnet wires' to clamp into the screw terminals, you need to attach a larger piece of wire to the LED leads. The resistors simply provide an easy source for short pieces of suitably sized wire, but any wire will do. Take the piece that you cut off of the resistor and solder it to the end of the LED lead and then clamp the larger wire into the screw terminal. Resistor leads usually get shortened anyhow, so you are just making use of some scrap wire that you already have on hand.
I mentioned that you could also do the same thing with single pin headers. Solder the LED lead into the hole in the pin header and then clamp the male end of the pin leader into the screw terminal. However, that seems like extra work. Soldering a suitably sized piece of wire to the LED lead works just as well.
I just thought of another option. Depending on the spacing of the screw terminals, you could theoretically clamp one of the resistor leads directly into the screw terminal and solder the LED lead to the other end of the resistor. I haven't done this personally, but I don't see why it wouldn't work, and it would keep the wiring very neatly organized.
Thanks again, everyone. Great help here.
As an aside, magnet wire is coated with enamel instead of the traditional plastic insulation, so that magnet cores can be wound tighter with more turns of wire. I use it for wiring small things like signals where lots of wires go up and down through a very small space. It's not necessary for structure wiring because you just don't need to squeeze wires into a tight space.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I gave a link to magnet wire above. My roundhouse lights are hanging on magnet wire.
When putting the structure on the layout I run the magnet wire down through the foam base in a tube of some sort to a terminal strip. Because the wire is so fine I solder it to a bit of wire (maybe 16G) that plugs into the terminal strip. The step-down converter is connected to the terminal strip.
The lengthy wire on your resistors can be cut back, I think that is what Dave is referring to. I like to keep the resistor with the structure, while I use the tiny chip resistors you can usually hide the larger ones inside or under the base.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
crossthedogwhy we'd be clipping off 3/8" from the resistor ends.
Magnet wire is very thin wire it can be as thin as 44 ga. I initially thought your picture was magnet wire but blowing it up, I think it's just traditional small gauge wire. Magnet wire has a polymer enamel insulation. People use it for surface mount LED's but is not relevant to this thread.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
hon30critterHenry told you about pin headers in the previous post. I strongly recommend that you buy some! They would work well for clamping the magnet wire into your WeHonest Distribution boards if you want to go that route (although, the easiest solution is to just nip 3/8" off of the ends of your resistors and solder the cut ends to the magnet wire)
So far I'm tracking with everyone, and these solutions seem like good ones, but I'm confused at your mention of a "magnet wire". What is it and why are we talking about it? I don't remember seeing it on any of the WeHonest illustrations and the LEDs I bought only have two wires each, a black and a red. If I knew what you meant by that I might be able to understand why we'd be clipping off 3/8" from the resistor ends.
Thanks.
Henry told you about pin headers in the previous post. I strongly recommend that you buy some! They would work well for clamping the magnet wire into your WeHonest Distribution boards if you want to go that route (although, the easiest solution is to just nip 3/8" off of the ends of your resistors and solder the cut ends to the magnet wire). Also, in your case, using the pin connectors under your structure will make it easy to remove the building from the layout when necessary.
I use the pin headers to make up connector plugs for all sorts of situations. I have used them to connect locomotives to their tenders and to make easy disconnects for illuminated structures. I put them in line when I am hard wiring decoders so the decoder can be removed without having to unsolder any wires.
The pin headers that are shown in the eBay listing are actually both male and female. The pin(s) on one header section will fit tightly into the hole(s) in the next header section, like this (double click on the pictures to get a close up view):
Unconnected:
Connected:
The female sockets:
Solder the wires from one part of the circuit onto the exposed pins on one half of the connecter, and then solder the wires from the other part of the circuit into the holes on the other half of the connector. You will need a pencil tip soldering iron to solder the wires into the female sockets, and you have to be quick or the plastic will melt. I always tin my wires beforehand and I put a tiny drop of flux on the tinned wire and into the socket hole. You may want to practise soldering the wires into the female sockets a bit before adding the connectors to your project.
Here is a locomotive where I had to replace the original connecter plug with a new section of a pin header:
You can make the connectors whatever size you need simply by cutting or snapping the necessary number of pins off of the long strips.
I recommend using heat shrink tubing if you have it, or, as was suggested, nail polish will work well too. Colour coding the connectors isn't a bad idea too, so you can keep the polarity correct.
I misunderstood Brent's previous post. I was unfamiliar with the resistors he used.
To understand serial vs parallel imagine a simple DC circular layout with a standard Alas terminal piece. Every piece of rail is connected in serial.
If you are collecting Medicare, when you were a kid, Christmas tree lights came as a serial connection. If one light burned out, that was part of the series and none of the lights would light. You had to change every light bulb till you found the one that was burned out.
Parallel connection, big improvement in Christmas lighting. Imagine you ran a two wire buss around your DC circle. And you connected two feeders from each and every rail to the bus. You could take a Dremel cut off wheel and chop through every track joiner and yet every piece of rail would have power. That's parallel
The WeHonest distribution board
They show male pin terminals like RRMel used to use. I don't have a link to his website. There are also female matching pins. They come in a big strip but you can score them to get any number of pins or sockets you need. You solder your wire to the small end of the male terminal.
My link to the terminals is the first one I found on Ebay. It is not a recommendation of the seller.
Matt
Just cut a piece of solid wire of a suitable size and use that as a pin by soldering the light wires to it.
I made this hoodadaddy to test the brightness of the LEDs to determine what resistor I want to use in advance. I can try different resistors and the step down converter will also control brightness to some degree. Ignore the wire bender thingie, I use that to bend the tubing for the lights.
I have kept every wall-wart of every appliance/electronics I have ever thrown out so finding a power source is easy.
With such low voltage, I do not worry about sealing the soldered connections except where a short could possibly occur, then a dab of paint or nail polish will do. When you consider how thin the insulation is on the wire, paint or nail polish is overkill.
To remove the insulation on the wire you can just dip the end into a bead of solder. That removes the insulation and tins the wire at the same time. I use #38 magnet wire from Ngineering.
https://www.ngineering.com/accessories.htm
hon30critterHooking up an LED and a resistor isn't much different than installing an incandescent lightbulb but there are two things that you need to do with an LED vs a regular bulb...
BATMANOn this mock-up I did, I used one resistor for each LED. If you look closely you can see a little square resister where the wire from the light meets the beam...
I think the most difficult part of this will be soldering connections. I used heat shrink tubing once with a soldering iron and it made a gloopy mess. It looks like you've left yours uncovered.
The other thing is, even with that distro board that WeHonest sells, he admits the wires on the LED wires are too small for the screw connectors to grab, so he talks about soldering pin ends to them, but I don't see that he sells the pin ends.
So I have a little homework to do, but I'm very excited because I think these lamps look pretty good.
Thanks again.
BigDaddyThat's a neat but not dainty solution to afix the lamp.
BigDaddyIn the above referenced thread, it looks like Brent wired one resistor in series with the LED's.
HI Matt
I use this LED array wizard to help plan things out.
http://www.hebeiltd.com.cn/calculator/v5/led.php
On this mock-up I did, I used one resistor for each LED. If you look closely you can see a little square resister where the wire from the light meets the beam. These are chip resisters and are perfect for our hobby.
Here you can see the chip resistor above each light. I used copper tape as a power bus, soldering the chip to that on one side and the wire to the chip and the other wire to the tape on the other. I bought copper tape in several widths from China for about $2.20ca a roll.
I ordered these step-down converters from China for $2.00ca each. I order ten at a time as they do fail.
I order my resistor chips from Digi-Key. I got my order from them in 19hrs to rural Canada.
https://www.digikey.ca/?utm_adgroup=Digi-Key&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=EN_Brand_Digi-Key&utm_term=digi%20key&productid=&gclid=Cj0KCQiArsefBhCbARIsAP98hXRFxXbnzZB31-5nJXvfCsUHBdyUgdZGT22PwsIMaqNZqbjJJ1yMQoYaAk_7EALw_wcB
I order lots of stuff from China as well and it takes eleven days to get here on average.
You can use those large resistors, generally, you can hide them somewhere out of sight. I ended up using one resistor for each light as I just ran into issues doing it any other way.
CNR378The instruction page doesn't have instructions for how to physically connect everything but they appear to have a distribution board that would simplify eveything.
That's a neat but not dainty solution to afix the lamp.
It doesn't matter what lead you put the resistor on, but you should pick on or the other to be consistant. I wonder how many resistors are manufactured in China? Probably most of them. You can trust the resistors but I don't know what the Tyco puts out.
In the above referenced thread, it looks like Brent wired one resistor in series with the LED's. I didn't think you could do that without the downstream LED being much dimmer. I'll leave that to the gurus.
Your wires look like decoder gauge wires. It never occured to me to crimp them. I would solder and use heat shrink tubing or liquid heat shrink.
Google We Honest, they have a "Product Instruction" page.
It appears these LEDs run on 3 volts (without resisters) or 9 volts with the resistors that were included. 1k would probably be right for 12 volts.
The instruction page doesn't have instructions for how to physically connect everything but they appear to have a distribution board that would simplify eveything.
BATMANHere is a link to a thread on roundhouse lighting. If you want to take a stab at lighting we can all walk you through it.
As you can see, resistors are included. I can imagine how all this fits together mechanically, the nuts and all, but what do I have to know about the resistors? Where to put them in the wiring? Can I hook them up to the old Tyco power pack, which I think is 12v? Also, how do I know if these resistors are sufficient? Mr. "wehonest" on eBay provided them (which I hadn't even realized was part of the deal, so plus points for thoroughness there), but I don't know how...er... resistant they are.
These are awfully tiny gauge wires, too, can I just crimp them in connectors or do you solder them and tape them? I'm completely new to working with resistors. So many questions.
A diagram is always helpful for me.
Sounds easier than I had imagined. Thanks for the information.
Llenroc fanWhat resistors did you use with the Christmas light LEDs? Did you just cut off individual bulbs and use the original wires to power them?
I have found that 1k (1,000) ohm resistors are a safe bet for most LED's. As far as how to use the LED's for strings of Christmas lights, the individual bulbs are actually seperate pieces that plug into sockets along the string of lights. Simply remove each bulb from its socket, pop the clear or colored plastic dome off the top of the socket, then straighten the wire leads of the LED so that it will slide right out of the socket base.
Hornblower
Hi Matt
Here is a link to a thread on roundhouse lighting. If you want to take a stab at lighting we can all walk you through it.
https://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/p/284690/3284542.aspx#3284542
crossthedogI want to try the LEDs for this Perkins kit and other structures, but in this direction I can only perceive a wilderness without a pathway ahead.
Hooking up an LED and a resistor isn't much different than installing an incandescent lightbulb but there are two things that you need to do with an LED vs a regular bulb. The first is to install a resistor in series between the LED and the power supply. One resistor per LED is the simplest place to start. It doesn't matter which lead the resistor is connected to and the resistors are not polarity sensitive (LEDs are polarity sensitive). The second is to make sure that you have the polarity correct for the LED. If an LED won't light, try reversing the wire connections to see if that works.
The LED/resistor calculation is very simple. In fact, I don't do any math at all. I just guesstimate. Let's assume that you are using a 12 volt DC power supply. Twelve volts is too much power for an LED without a resistor installed in series. The resistor restricts the amount of electricity that can get to the LED. A very common resistor value is 1000 ohms with the resistor rated at 1/4 watt minimum (you can use 1/8 watt resistors but they can get very hot). That generally makes the LED very bright which is how they are shown in the ads but not what you want in this case. The higher the resistor value, the less light the LED will give out. I have used resistors as high as 30,000 ohms to make the LEDs glow like a kerosene lamp or a very early lightbulb. I would suggest starting with something around 3000 ohms and working up from there.
Here are some warm white 0603 LEDs with one 30,000 resistor per LED installed in my McKeen Motor Car:
If you are going to install several LEDs in the same structure, it is often easier to make up a circuit using brass, copper or phosphor bronze wire just like you would wire a real house. I recommend getting some phosphor bronze wire from Tichy Trains. It is stiff enough to hold its shape but it also solders and bends easily, and it can be used for other things like making handrails etc.
https://www.tichytraingroup.com/Shop/tabid/91/c/ho_wire/p/1102-015-phosphor-bronze-wire/Default.aspx
I buy my LEDs from eBay. Recently I have been spending a little extra money to buy the 0402 size ones with wires already attached just to make life easy, but soldering wires to a regular 3mm or 5mm LED is pretty simple. The '0402' indicates the size of a SMD rectangular LED, i.e. 0.040" long by 0.020" wide. The '3mm' or '5mm' indicates the diameter of a round LED. The round LEDs have long leads on them so they are easy to solder to. Hold the LED lead with a pair of needle nose pliers next to the body of the LED to keep the LED from getting too hot. You can buy the rectangular SMD LEDs without leads attached but soldering the wires to them requires some pretty good skills. I used to do it but I got lazy.
Resistors are cheap on eBay or you can buy them cheap from suppliers like Digikey or Mouser Electronics. I would suggest buying a small selection of 4 or 5 values between 1000 ohms and 10,000 ohms incl.
As for connecting wire, I would buy two rolls of 26 gauge stranded wire, one black and the other red or white. I also use a red paint pen to mark the positive wires if there is any doubt about which wire is which.
If you have more questions please don't hesitate to ask. LEDs are easy and reliable.
What resistors did you use with the Christmas light LEDs? Did you just cut off individual bulbs and use the original wires to power them?
Several of you have mentioned LEDs and resistors. This is the division point for me between what I can easily imagine doing and what seems arcane and difficult, but I think I want to go that way if the light is not too harsh.
Here's where my journey has taken me so far: I found an inexpensive INCANDESCENT bulb at my LHS last week (he had "warm" LEDs but I wasn't yet convinced), and stuck it in the building and wired it temporarily to an old Tyco power pack's DC terminals. I turned out the lights in the garage. It looked great (although it showed light leaks around the windows and doors EVEN THOUGH I had insulated their insides with glue and then painted the glue black as instructed above -- still trying to figure out how that light is getting through).
I understand if I use warm white LEDs with resistors, I may not ever have to replace them and I may be able to reduce their bright-whiteness (intensity? luminescence?). But I don't know how to use resistors, where to place them, their care and feeding. They sound grouchy and hard to negotiate with. And I know nothing about ohms. The "warm white" LEDs I see online look awfully bright (which could be great in other applications -- I actually bought a few to replace the headlights in some of my old YB Atlas locos).
I want to try the LEDs for this Perkins kit and other structures, but in this direction I can only perceive a wilderness without a pathway ahead.
In any case, thanks all for these great comments and suggestions.
If you can't find suitable Christmas light strings or don't want to have to pull them apart, the diffused light LEDs (sometimes called 'straw hat' LEDs) are available in bulk from eBay for pretty good prices. Here is just one example:
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/133966209868?hash=item1f3102234c:g:WYYAAOSwJTthu3SJ&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA4Hd25F%2B9NNFM0NlQXjnEGO9asR9vznHm0jXsHs9Jw6q06%2FQL8cg2YWYlUackJ44WHgtMyP6EPsq%2FQLaEHjYkmINzGPVYJKWHi5IVN2nWxC6XOd%2Fgc13RnT3Xupo%2FSSKSj2owbRwslEQEgdUkq2yVRTsM1ID3iQrKzkO6oxZQBgtgairXh8qTtVP%2FwRZyrNb7%2BIv8rPP1vQhmnSiMRBDzuH0%2BF6J7k0K0YT%2FHp7YzYQm3hjqJaBgobwsWrzmntTOcIzDAPhipwO%2Fdm2TpTMICavw8SActvdtxgJsqVhwu33Z4%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR7jHvu3GYQ
Don't forget the resistors!