crossthedogwhy we'd be clipping off 3/8" from the resistor ends.
Magnet wire is very thin wire it can be as thin as 44 ga. I initially thought your picture was magnet wire but blowing it up, I think it's just traditional small gauge wire. Magnet wire has a polymer enamel insulation. People use it for surface mount LED's but is not relevant to this thread.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
I gave a link to magnet wire above. My roundhouse lights are hanging on magnet wire.
When putting the structure on the layout I run the magnet wire down through the foam base in a tube of some sort to a terminal strip. Because the wire is so fine I solder it to a bit of wire (maybe 16G) that plugs into the terminal strip. The step-down converter is connected to the terminal strip.
The lengthy wire on your resistors can be cut back, I think that is what Dave is referring to. I like to keep the resistor with the structure, while I use the tiny chip resistors you can usually hide the larger ones inside or under the base.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
As an aside, magnet wire is coated with enamel instead of the traditional plastic insulation, so that magnet cores can be wound tighter with more turns of wire. I use it for wiring small things like signals where lots of wires go up and down through a very small space. It's not necessary for structure wiring because you just don't need to squeeze wires into a tight space.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Thanks again, everyone. Great help here.
Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.
Hi Matt,
I was using the term 'magnet wire' somewhat generically to refer to very fine wires with a very thin coating of insulation. Many of the pre-wired LEDs come with that type of wire attached, and as you have already noted, they are too thin to be clamped into the screw terminals.
I apologise for not explaining the use of the cut off resistor leads more clearly. In order to get the 'magnet wires' to clamp into the screw terminals, you need to attach a larger piece of wire to the LED leads. The resistors simply provide an easy source for short pieces of suitably sized wire, but any wire will do. Take the piece that you cut off of the resistor and solder it to the end of the LED lead and then clamp the larger wire into the screw terminal. Resistor leads usually get shortened anyhow, so you are just making use of some scrap wire that you already have on hand.
I mentioned that you could also do the same thing with single pin headers. Solder the LED lead into the hole in the pin header and then clamp the male end of the pin leader into the screw terminal. However, that seems like extra work. Soldering a suitably sized piece of wire to the LED lead works just as well.
I just thought of another option. Depending on the spacing of the screw terminals, you could theoretically clamp one of the resistor leads directly into the screw terminal and solder the LED lead to the other end of the resistor. I haven't done this personally, but I don't see why it wouldn't work, and it would keep the wiring very neatly organized.
Cheers!!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
@Dave, this last from you explains everything else that I was still unclear on. Thank you very much. I'm going to order that distro board, I think, and I will go back and read through this entire thread again. People have given very specific recommendations for their favorite sources of resistors and pins and all the rest, and there are images to stare at. It's all here. What a great help you have all been, and I'm extra delighted because I hadn't even intended to make the kit lighted at first, and now it will not only be lighted but it has a working exterior lamp over the upper dock that was not part of the kit, but looks like it should have been. I'm very pleased.
I'll post a photo when I get it wired up, but I gotta plug those light leaks first :)
-Matt
Hi again Matt,
I just looked at the power distribution circuit board from Wehonest, and I have to correct an assumption that I had made. I didn't realize that the outputs were only 3 volts. I had assumed that the outputs were 12 volts. Therefore, there is no need for resistors if you use the board. The board also allows you to dim the LEDs if you so choose.
There are simpler and less expensive ways for you to power your LEDs but I won't distract you now by going into detail. If you want me to explain those options then just ask.
If you already have some white LEDs, you can put a thin coat of yellow paint on them and they will become warm white.
Joe
Dave,
Wehonest has several different distribution boards. On them there is jumper which selects either 3 volts or board input voltage. Depending on the board there may be only one jumper or several.
Peter
I ordered their DB05 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/154057237421).
Some very informative illustrations of the board are here: http://www.wehonest.net/index.php?route=information/information&information_id=12
I spent a few minutes studying the board that you have chosen as well as their other distribution circuits. It all looks very usable so I don't think that you are wasting your money by investing in them.
I would add one caveat for future reference. If you get into coloured LEDs, i.e. for signals, using a standard 3 volts might not give you the best results. What can happen is that some coloured LEDs like red will be extremely bright and hard to look at whereas the yellow LEDs may be very dim. Your circuit board can still be used for those situations but I would set the output at 12 volts and use different valued resistors for each of the colours. For red, a 1K resistor will work. For yellow, you will want to go down to 180 ohms, and for green, 560 ohms is recommended. I believe these values were determined by RR_Mel (Melvin Perry, deceased) but I may be giving credit to the wrong person. Using three different resistors will result in even brightness from all three colours.
hon30critterI spent a few minutes studying the board that you have chosen as well as their other distribution circuits. It all looks very usable so I don't think that you are wasting your money by investing in them. I would add one caveat for future reference. If you get into coloured LEDs, i.e. for signals, using a standard 3 volts might not give you the best results. What can happen is that some coloured LEDs like red will be extremely bright and hard to look at whereas the yellow LEDs may be very dim. Your circuit board can still be used for those situations but I would set the output at 12 volts and use different valued resistors for each of the colours.
Thanks for the note about controling the various colors.
I remember RRMel. I think he was one of those who helped me figure out how to wire my blocks.
-matt
I tried a 1K resistor and got no light. With a 100 Ohm resistor the light was about correct but after a couple of seconds the resistor was too hot to touch. Obviously not a viable situation.
Any idea what I'm doing wrong?
Llenroc fan I tried a 1K resistor and got no light. With a 100 Ohm resistor the light was about correct but after a couple of seconds the resistor was too hot to touch. Obviously not a viable situation. Any idea what I'm doing wrong?
You just need to try something in between, maybe a 470 or 680. A 100 ohm resistor will allow for ten times the current of the 1000 ohm resistor, os I'm not surprised it went fron no light to too hot.
Thanks for the advice. I'll see what happens.
Llenroc fanI tried a 1K resistor and got no light. With a 100 Ohm resistor the light was about correct but after a couple of seconds the resistor was too hot to touch.
Hi Llenroc fan,
If you are using 12 volts and a 1K resistor, the LED should be quite bright. Are you sure that it was 1K (1000 ohms)?
Just to clarify, can you remind us of what voltage you are using? Also, what wattage are the resistors?
Most resistors that you will use in the hobby have four colour bands. The first two bands represent digits 1 - 9. The third band is a multiplier. It tells you how many 0s (zeros) to add to the first two digits. A 1K resistor will have the following colour bands: brown (first digit = 1), black (second digit = 0), red (multiplier = add two 0s) and gold. The gold is not part of the resistance calculation. It shows the tolerance or range of resistance the resistor may have, i.e. gold = +- 5%.
This resistance calculator may help you verify resistance values:
https://www.calculator.net/resistor-calculator.html
Wattage (W) shows how much current can flow through the resistor. For our applications, a 1/4W resistor is usually fine. There is rarely a need to use 1/2W resistors. You can get away with 1/8W resistors but I have found personally that they can get very hot.
If space is at a premium or you don't want the resistors to be visible, then you can use Surface Mount Device (SMD) resistors which are tiny and can easily be disguised. SMD resistors should have the resistance stamped onto them. The size is shown in thousanths of an inch. For example, a 1206 SMD resistor is 0.12" x 0.06".
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/373990514276?hash=item5713925e64:g:ugIAAOSwlmhjpWlP&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA8PdBB0tM29x2XvbGOiMfdHfpeK9mtvN4VLWUPRDylr1Y2QQaQbLDVWuLT4xNI2JV0ZDE%2FA2Iiy4CerucAwo1aQEt3kkrBB3g7XZEzGFLdz%2F0MjZ6cFKmbDZgttYE6K%2BvWxPfalrmEN7S3fPVOvSSLSB5qc6qSe%2FEWhkMctX8ryN4dBGmzFnk9F20O3rh3P94CjPawFf70qLfsFjXAqGVvBXbAel%2BMmJehoP6y2896NCcFjENc%2FWyS0ocu%2BFSYpUd7zpu0UEfNnoX0WgSw58VaL3XFE%2F%2BBK8%2Fm1n2udzCwwFxvzLbYTf22g1HFk98MCyHJQ%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABFBMgoCRmdBh
There are smaller SMD resistors available. I usually use 0603s.
Hope that's not too much information.
hon30critter ... The pin headers that are shown in the eBay listing are actually both male and female. The pin(s) on one header section will fit tightly into the hole(s) in the next header section, like this (double click on the pictures to get a close up view): Unconnected: Connected: The female sockets: Solder the wires from one part of the circuit onto the exposed pins on one half of the connecter, and then solder the wires from the other part of the circuit into the holes on the other half of the connector. You will need a pencil tip soldering iron to solder the wires into the female sockets, and you have to be quick or the plastic will melt. I always tin my wires beforehand and I put a tiny drop of flux on the tinned wire and into the socket hole. You may want to practise soldering the wires into the female sockets a bit before adding the connectors to your project. ... Cheers!! Dave
...
The pin headers that are shown in the eBay listing are actually both male and female. The pin(s) on one header section will fit tightly into the hole(s) in the next header section, like this (double click on the pictures to get a close up view):
Unconnected:
Connected:
The female sockets:
Solder the wires from one part of the circuit onto the exposed pins on one half of the connecter, and then solder the wires from the other part of the circuit into the holes on the other half of the connector. You will need a pencil tip soldering iron to solder the wires into the female sockets, and you have to be quick or the plastic will melt. I always tin my wires beforehand and I put a tiny drop of flux on the tinned wire and into the socket hole. You may want to practise soldering the wires into the female sockets a bit before adding the connectors to your project.
Thanks,
crossthedog where did you get the pins you show in the post I've copied here
The pin headers are available on eBay:
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/404137406355?hash=item5e18776f93:g:~xwAAOxyhS9TfWBY&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoBvE6cCzjoMuJSmcCbYIE96tCd%2BtYdlujfZyepCWoJIE2gsktdgvY2qJn6mr2k3jOkJONO253UbZDo8J5lCDuuNiR1eJJOthMB%2F9UQRiFStDCa6HOcN29J%2F8mZZW1P91%2FCXWwH11vm%2BEC5K25PBJMzJ%2FLCn36jcduVxYbpzEluwQGbSuN7TnrPf%2FtyszXD5sGF%2BUhvjZuCeIchdBsm5JOzM%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR_jZoajQYQ
The listing is for the Canadian market so your price may be lower.
If you want to make the soldering a little easier, then you can combine one of the header strips like those in the listing above with a strip with male pins on both sides. Soldering wires into the female sockets on the above strips is a bit fussy. If your second strip is like these, the soldering will be much easier:
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/182223757376?hash=item2a6d61e040:g:vB4AAOSwvfZaG-pl&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoBWu7KmW%2FrHnEh6KROeD%2BfEGvjKau0XAM6jGABONUW%2FJF%2BZkmrPZs7gcL%2FRpc9S9j6IohbzBYRrhI5UwLZ3lxd0feiHh8Hg3meKuSWU59f0HxN05oS6j5ij1IjvrSGZCQCqq0QoiIY7%2Bx2Y4jkAbwM2sQYNkrpUa0lVxDUtYKw5Kjnxi4HKFraty7%2BiUp5a3PGCKc34Tf5VUAL14wfokq3M%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR_bZoajQYQ
Please don't hesitate to ask more questions. I really enjoy helping folks with these projects!
I'm frustrated. I managed to wire up an LED to the upper loading dock.
I soldered the wires of this lamp to 22-gauge wire and used heat shrink to cover the joints, and soldered the other ends of the 22-gauge wire to pin connectors that plug into the WeHonest distro board. It worked nicely at first.
But the wires for this lamp are so thin -- I think someone called them decoder wire -- that they couldn't hold the weight of the 22-guage wire hanging down from them under the layout. One of them broke, and it wasn't at the solder joint, it just broke in the middle of the wire.
Another problem I'm facing is that the tiny wires are only about 6 inches long, which makes soldering them to other wires very challenging, with the building tipped over on its chimney. Feeding all the wire down through the hole under the building is where I think I broke the one thin wire. Now it's a lot shorter, which will make connecting it to anything evenb more challenging.
I'm going to bed. Things will look more hopeful after a good night's sleep.
crossthedogI'm frustrated. I managed to wire up an LED to the upper loading dock. I soldered the wires of this lamp to 22-gauge wire and used heat shrink to cover the joints, and soldered the other ends of the 22-gauge wire to pin connectors that plug into the WeHonest distro board. It worked nicely at first.
crossthedogBut the wires for this lamp are so thin -- I think someone called them decoder wire -- that they couldn't hold the weight of the 22-guage wire hanging down from them under the layout. One of them broke, and it wasn't at the solder joint, it just broke in the middle of the wire.
Hi Matt!
Welcome to the world of LED lighting, or should I say "welcome to the often frustrating world of LED lighting!".
I suspect that your LEDs have 'magnet wire' leads as opposed to decoder wire. Decoder wire is usually somewhere between 28 ga. and 36 ga. and it has a comparatively thick coating of insulation on it. It is certainly strong enough to support a heavier gauge wire being soldered to it. Magnet wire is extremely thin, i.e. just a bit bigger than a human hair, and it is coated with some form of varnish for insulation purposes which is extremely thin. Magnet wire is prone to breaking. Often the cause is that the wire has formed a loop which, when the wire is pulled straight, creates a weak point which will break easily.
You can get pre-soldered LEDs with thicker wire, but instead of spending more money on LEDs, let's work with what you have.
The first issue is that the 22 ga. wire that you have used is relatively very heavy and stiff when compared to the magnet wire. Any stresses that you put on the wires will affect the magnet wire and not the heavier wire. I would suggest that you get some wire in the 26 - 28 ga. If you have any old computer cables or phone cables, the wires in those would work perfectly.
Second, you might want to consider feeding the heavier gauge wires through the structure before attaching the LEDs, By doing that, you will be able to avoid pulling on the thin LED leads, and those leads can then be tucked up into the ceiling/roof where they won't be seen. You can hold them in place with some tape.
If you are reading this in the morning then I hope you had a good night's sleep. What you have experienced is a typical part of learning to install LEDs. You will get better at it!
Dave, thanks for the encouragement.
On the issue of whether my wire is decoder or magnet wire, I'm not sure... you said the magnet wire has just a thin coating of varnish, but it looks like regular insulation to me, even though very thin. It's in the picure I posted above of the exterior lamp I bought... wait, I'll post it again here:
There's nothing in the photo that can absolutely show how thin this wire is, but you can sort of tell. In any case...
hon30critterYou can get pre-soldered LEDs with thicker wire, but instead of spending more money on LEDs, let's work with what you have.
...I may end up buying new fixtures for the interior lights anyway, because the interior LED that I was trying to install when I broke the wire for the exterior lamp shown above turned out to be very harsh white, even though it is a "warm white" LED. So I want to buy yellow LEDs, and solder their wires to some wires with pin connectors before I even put them in the building. I would love to find LEDs that already came wired to a pin connector. Here's what I think I need to do:
Very thin wires come out the bottom of the structure from lamp locations A, B and C. These wires don't reach very far. I've only drawn the wires from Lamp A. Point 1 shows the first connection, where those thin wires have to be soldered to something else, which ideally would have a male/male pin connector on the other end of it. This would enable me to disconnect the structure for removal at Point 2. There, the male/male end would meet a female/male pin on 22 gauge wire (this setup suggested by someone above and I now understand why).
At Point 3, the 22 gauge wire is soldered to a short wire that came with the distro board and has one of several easy-plug pins on the end of it. That end is not so difficult. The structure end is challenging, especially now that one of the wires from Lamp A has broken short and I will have to be soldering practically inside the building to reattach it, since I cannot push the lamp through the hole from the inside.
This reminds me of a story an old friend told me about his days working on a dynamite crew in rocky desert country. One day he and his partner went out for a day's work without remembering to load an extra coil of fuse into the truck. When they discovered their mistake they were miles out in the desert from HQ and didn't want to spend time going back. So all day long they had to use shorter fuses than they normally would, to conserve the supply, until they had nearly run completely out. Finally, at days end, one of them would be sitting in the truck a few yards away with the engine revving and the passenger door open, and the other would light a dangerously short fuse and run like all get out to hop into a truck that was already speeding away from the blast zone.
Also, I think having everything from the distro board all the way to Point 2 -- i.e. all the heavier 22 gauge wire -- mounted up securely under the layout benchwork BEFORE connecting the thinner LED wires to them would be smart. I think the fact that I was making a trial run with heavy wires all hanging willi-nilli contributed to my problems. I'd like to be able to drop the thin wires down through the hole under the structure and plug them in at a solidly affixed Point 2.
Does anyone know of a place to buy LED's with a certain color temperature? The warm white description seems to cover a wide range of actual colors. I bought some from Ngineering that are more suitable for a yellow traffic light than for general lighting.
Mark
crossthedogOn the issue of whether my wire is decoder or magnet wire, I'm not sure...
Your wire is not magnet wire, and if it is single stranded, it's not decoder wire either. Decoder wire is multi-stranded. Your wire is just very thin wire with either a poly insulation or a teflon insulation. If it is teflon, it could be a major PITA to deal with.
I'm having trouble making suggestions about how to repair the broken wire because I don't have a clear picture in my mind of the situation inside the building. Would it be possible for you to post a couple of pictures showing where the end of the broken wire is situated?
@Dave, will soon post photos. First, though, I'm posting our offline conversation, as you suggested. As I said, I was becoming embarrassed for such a long and convoluted thread, and for my own inability to understand what seems so intuitive for most of you all here, but you pointed out that the whole conversation may be of value to someone following behind someday, so I'm swallowing my pride. Here's my email to you:
And here's Dave's reply:
...In that regard, you might want to continue our conversation on the Model Railroader forum simply so that others can benefit from the information or add useful information to the topic. Nobody gives a hoot about how long the thread gets. My thread about scratchbuilding an oddball rotary snow plow now has more than 53,000 views and is on its 29th page.
hon30critterI'm having trouble making suggestions about how to repair the broken wire because I don't have a clear picture in my mind of the situation inside the building. Would it be possible for you to post a couple of pictures showing where the end of the broken wire is situated?
Emerging under the layout, the remaining thin black wire meets up with the heavy 22-gauge wire. This is where I would want easy-plug pin connectors, and I intend to not plug them in until the heavier wire, which will not be as heavy as 22-gauge -- more like 26 or 28 -- can be tied up tight under the building. You can see how the weight of the 22-gauge wire hanging loose is pulling the tiny LED wire straight down.Finally, here's a shot of the forlorn broken red wire outside the building.
I always do all my light guage wiring inside the structure and solder them all to a scrap piece of circuit board material glued to either the inside wall or floor. I then attach the heavier wire to that and run the heavier wires down through the benchwork.
Either that or use hot glue, epoxy, etc. to glue the heavier wires to the interior and attach the fine wires directly to the heavier wires. Not advisable to ever run fine wires like that through the benchwork and be exposed underneath. Almost a risk of snagging one and breaking it.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
Mark R.I always do all my light guage wiring inside the structure and solder them all to a scrap piece of circuit board material glued to either the inside wall or floor. I then attach the heavier wire to that and run the heavier wires down through the benchwork.
Good idea, thank you Mark. Show me a picture, seriously.
I think that there is plenty of the broken red wire left to work with. All you need to do is strip a half inch or so of insulation off of it and then attach another wire to extend it.
I'm a bit concerned that the red wire has teflon insulation. If it does, it will be difficult to strip. Teflon is tough stuff! A hot soldering iron may remove enough of it to expose the length of wire that you need, or you can try gently scraping the insulation with a #11 X-acto blade. Maybe others will have better solutions. I bought a commercial grade small wire stripper which works beautifully, but it will set you back a bunch.
https://jonard.com/adjustable-wire-strippers-adjustable-wire-stripper?v=511
I don't know if that helps you or not.