Looks cool. But I'm a steam guy. They have a Johnson bar version? ;)
wrench567They have a Johnson bar version?
what do you think the effect of the Johnson bar will be on performance?
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
gregc wrench567 They have a Johnson bar version? what do you think the effect of the Johnson bar will be on performance?
wrench567 They have a Johnson bar version?
If threatened with the Johnson bar performance always improves.
Pretty cool, I guess, if you are really into playing engineer with the time and patience to continually operate the throttle. This guy spends a whole lot of time with his fingers pressing buttons and moving levers. Personally, I have no interest or patience for such minutiae. I fell asleep at the 6:30 mark. There is something for everyone in this hobby, but this one is not for me.
Rich
Alton Junction
I remember when these were first introduced reading about the need to greatly increase momentum settings to all engines to best mimic real movements. While I agree these throttles are extremely prototypical, the momentum settings require You to need to make a major decision, that is, to use this one throttle exclusively or to run your layout with your existing throttles with exaggerated momentum settings. At $600 it's a decision I'll choose to keep my existing Digitrax throttles.
maxman gregc wrench567 They have a Johnson bar version? what do you think the effect of the Johnson bar will be on performance? If threatened with the Johnson bar performance always improves.
Greg.
Before the advent of power reverse. The J bar was used to reverse the motion of the valve gear to change direction and to change the admittance of steam going to the cylinders.
Maxman.
The beatings will continue until moral improves.
Pete
Interesting video. Thank you for sharing.
I have loved that throttle since I first saw it.
If I had to start over again from scratch, I would build an around-the-walls G scale switching layout. My only locomotive would be a GP-7, and I would use that throttle. The sound system would be so massive that my neighbors would swear I had a stationary EMD-567 inside the house.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
wrench567change the admittance of steam going to the cylinders
how do you think that impacts performance?
richhotrain Pretty cool, I guess, if you are really into playing engineer with the time and patience to continually operate the throttle. This guy spends a whole lot of time with his fingers pressing buttons and moving levers. Personally, I have no interest or patience for such minutiae. I fell asleep at the 6:30 mark. There is something for everyone in this hobby, but this one is not for me. Rich
Same here, no interest in that level of playing engineer.
My Aristo throttles use buttons, FASTER - SLOWER - EAST - WEST - EMERGENCY STOP, which I do feel is more realistic than a knob, especially an endless wheel encoder knob.
But even when doing switching operations, I have zero interest in this kind of stuff.
Sheldon
gregc wrench567 change the admittance of steam going to the cylinders how do you think that impacts performance?
wrench567 change the admittance of steam going to the cylinders
With or without a power reverse, the Johnson bar changes the valve cutoff allowing the cylinders to work their hardest, or work "lightly" or coast in "neutral".
Past neutral is reverse....
Someone else can consider the idea of how that is simulated with an electric motor and a DCC throttle.
SeeYou190 Interesting video. Thank you for sharing. I have loved that throttle since I first saw it. If I had to start over again from scratch, I would build an around-the-walls G scale switching layout. My only locomotive would be a GP-7, and I would use that throttle. The sound system would be so massive that my neighbors would swear I had a stationary EMD-567 inside the house. -Kevin
New 2 rail O gauge equipment I've seen lately is very impressive.
BTW, what's stopping you. If that's what you really want.
- Douglas
Some of this stuff is fun, some of it he's going deliberately slow to display the throttle. Personally, I like his layout and how he operates it, and his videos.
The early parts of the video where you see his train move is pretty much how I run my layout. Even the mainline running across 18 feet doesn't go any faster than that. Its why I'm so phinnicky about slow speed movement of the trains. Heck, they all run great when they go faster than 20 mph, LOL.
Most of that running and the sounds can be done with proper CV programming and a normal throttle, IMO.
I think most of the fun for some is simply how the throttle looks.
All of this amounts to a lot of minutia for some. I like most of it, but some of it seem tedious. But its no more minutia to me than another trying to notice the cab contour of an F unit, or the rib detail of the end of a boxcar, or underneath brake rigging, or making up the "correct" train schedules to model how their prototype ran in 1965. As you said, something for everybody.
MR contributor Thomas Klimoski uses the throttle on his layout. He has a website with lots of videos that explain the reasons for the movements and idle time. He builds his switch list, and simulates the movements of the two man crew, so its not just playing engineer. Not that you place figurines around the train, but it shows how much prep work the crew has to perform to switch a few cars. All can be sped up with a crew movement fast clock, like some do with their train schedules.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpeW08CIYvQ
ATLANTIC CENTRALthe Johnson bar changes the valve cutoff allowing the cylinders to work their hardest, or work "lightly" or coast in "neutral".
what do you think the impact of that is on performance?
wouldn't you want the cylinders to always "work their hardest"?
ATLANTIC CENTRAL gregc wrench567 change the admittance of steam going to the cylinders how do you think that impacts performance? With or without a power reverse, the Johnson bar changes the valve cutoff allowing the cylinders to work their hardest, or work "lightly" or coast in "neutral". Past neutral is reverse.... Someone else can consider the idea of how that is simulated with an electric motor and a DCC throttle. Sheldon
Sheldon.
The latest sound decoders I have (TCS WOW and Loksound) have an algorithm in the software that uses BEMF tied into chuff intensity. Chuffs are more intense while starting a heavy train or climbing a grade and almost goes silent downgrade and coasting. Something that the old decoders didn't do too well.
$500 for a throttle is rather steep. On top of needing a DCC system also. Perhaps if the price was around what an extra throttle would cost, then maybe a consideration.
Pete.
wrench567The latest sound decoders
considering that closing the throttle doesn't bring the train to stop, brakes do, i think it would be interesting if sound decoders could mimic the mechanical sounds of a train coasting with little if any throttle
wrench567 ATLANTIC CENTRAL gregc wrench567 change the admittance of steam going to the cylinders how do you think that impacts performance? With or without a power reverse, the Johnson bar changes the valve cutoff allowing the cylinders to work their hardest, or work "lightly" or coast in "neutral". Past neutral is reverse.... Someone else can consider the idea of how that is simulated with an electric motor and a DCC throttle. Sheldon Sheldon. The latest sound decoders I have (TCS WOW and Loksound) have an algorithm in the software that uses BEMF tied into chuff intensity. Chuffs are more intense while starting a heavy train or climbing a grade and almost goes silent downgrade and coasting. Something that the old decoders didn't do too well. $500 for a throttle is rather steep. On top of needing a DCC system also. Perhaps if the price was around what an extra throttle would cost, then maybe a consideration. Pete.
Well Pete, I know what a steam locomotive sounds like working hard and coasting.
BUT, I don't have or use DCC and I don't have any interest in onboard sound in HO scale.
I still run DC, with Advanced Cab Control, and wireless radio throttles.
But this whole idea of trying to simulate every action that a real engineer has to do to run a train is of ZERO interest to me.
One of my other hobbies is designing and building HiFi speaker systems - onboard sound reminds me of trying to listen to music on a 1968 9 transistor radio with a 2" speaker. I will pass.
You are complaining about the cost of this thing? How many DCC sound equiped locos do you own? How big is your layout?
One could make the argument that current $600 locomotive prices are "steep".....
I only replied to this because obvious questions seemed unanswered or not correctly/fully answered.
I recall bringing up a "realistic throttle" thread back in early 2016
https://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/254524.aspx
Interesting.
Still more HERE:
https://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/271658.aspx
Regards, Ed
gregc i think it would be interesting if sound decoders could mimic the mechanical sounds of a train coasting with little if any throttle
Some do. When "drifting" the sound of side rod clank is increased and a hint of a "snifter" which is a type of vacuum breaker some engines used. Not all engines had sloppy side rods, depending on when they were last shopped and new brasses installed (or have roller bearings). Tramming and/or setting of the driving box wedges also affects how much "noise" a drifting steam locomotive makes.
gregcwouldn't you want the cylinders to always "work their hardest"?
If an engineer did that he'd run out of coal and water before the end of the run, not to mention exhausting the fireman. I'm sure you're familiar with the term "cutoff". Would you drive your car in first gear with all cylinders working at maximum power output 100% of the time?
Good Luck, Ed
gmpullmanIf an engineer did that he'd run out of coal and water before the end of the run, not to mention exhausting the fireman. I'm sure you're familiar with the term "cutoff". Would you drive your car in first gear with all cylinders working at maximum power output 100% of the time?
thanks for answering the question.
but i believe there's a 2nd part ... that affects performance
i don't think being in 1st gear at speed achieves max power. i believe there's a similar thing with steam engines
gregcbut i believe there's a 2nd part ... that affects performance i don't think being in 1st gear at speed achieves max power. i believe there's a similar thing with steam engines
You lost me with this statement. But I'm prone to that more often these days.
gregc wrench567 The latest sound decoders considering that closing the throttle doesn't bring the train to stop, brakes do, i think it would be interesting if sound decoders could mimic the mechanical sounds of a train coasting with little if any throttle
wrench567 The latest sound decoders
The Loksound and especially the WOW sound decoder are almost silent while drifting. I don't like the rod clank sounds so that is either volume cut or not enabled. Sometimes all you can hear is the turbo generator or water injector. My Loksound Select decoder makes what can be described as a piston sucking sound while being pushed down hill by the train. Being a Select instead of a more expensive decoder, I can't seem to get rid of that sound. To be honest I haven't really tried. Most of my steamers have a power reverse. Mostly lever action but a few screw reverse.
The PRR built the I1s 2-10-0 using a fifty percent cutoff. Economy was the goal. Later upgraded to 65 percent cutoff. That made them I1sa. They were powerful beasts that lead the railroad through the drag freight era. On YouTube there is a sound cut of one trying to start a heavy train. The wheel slip is a sound you won't soon forget. You can hear the engineer bunch up the train several times. It gives it a little boost from the draft gear springs as the brakes are released. Well worth the search.
DoughlessBTW, what's stopping you. If that's what you really want.
I think, for me at least, there is a fundamental difference between "what I really want", and "if I had a blank sheet of paper".
I have already carefully collected everything for my dream layout, and built the entire Fleet Of Nonsense. There is no switching pathways now, I am locked in on a target.
I am also not sure I would really enjoy large scale. I know I am happy with HO.
gmpullman gregc but i believe there's a 2nd part ... that affects performance i don't think being in 1st gear at speed achieves max power. i believe there's a similar thing with steam engines You lost me with this statement.
gregc but i believe there's a 2nd part ... that affects performance i don't think being in 1st gear at speed achieves max power. i believe there's a similar thing with steam engines
You lost me with this statement.
why does horsepower (i.e. force) drop beyond it's max as rpm increases? so you find a gear where the rpm is closer to max HP of the engine
not sure if it's loss of effiicency due to things like valve float or because there's not enough time to get enough fuel mixture into the cylinder.
a reverser isn't like a gear box, but it does control the flow rate of steam which has two effects
wrench567The Loksound and especially the WOW sound decoder are almost silent while drifting.
in the demo i've seen, ESU Steam Project, the chuff volume decreases presumably when the speed is decreased.
what i'd like is a function that can supress chuffs completely to mimic an operator closing the throttle and drifting
imagine an engine under power with chuffs, the throttle closed when slowing, preparing to stop or going downhill without losing much speed and finally brakes being applied and the train slowing rapidly and the possibility of opening the throttle to drag a train to a platform without releasing brakes
It's all in the decoder setup. Deceleration momentum is huge. On my heavy steam (2-8-0) and above the deceleration momentum is set anywhere from sixty and more. I also remap the brake function to button 3 because my Lenz LH90 has few function buttons.
There are almost unlimited settings on modern decoders.
SeeYou190 Doughless BTW, what's stopping you. If that's what you really want. I think, for me at least, there is a fundamental difference between "what I really want", and "if I had a blank sheet of paper". I have already carefully collected everything for my dream layout, and built the entire Fleet Of Nonsense. There is no switching pathways now, I am locked in on a target. I am also not sure I would really enjoy large scale. I know I am happy with HO. -Kevin
Doughless BTW, what's stopping you. If that's what you really want.
Previous commitments can be undone, but it sounds like you don;t really want to have the G that badly.
Go outdoors with the G. But I assume your neighborhood has a noise ordinance? LOL.
wrench567There are almost unlimited settings on modern decoders.
is there a way to supress chuffs (totally off) without changing speed?
thru a function sent by the throttle
gregc wrench567 There are almost unlimited settings on modern decoders. is there a way to supress chuffs (totally off) without changing speed? thru a function sent by the throttle
wrench567 There are almost unlimited settings on modern decoders.
There's no way to shut off chuffs. As long as the wheels are turning the pistons and valve gear are still engaged. There will be noise associated with that movement. There will be the sounds of air transfer through the valves and cylinders. But there is no sound of power (boom) and the volume of sound is decreased to almost zero. Like trying to start a lawnmower engine with the spark plug removed.
Hope this answers your question.
DoughlessGo outdoors with the G.
When I had my landscape curbing installed (20 years ago), the design was intended to include a G scale layout inside the curbed area. The radiuses (radii?) of the curbing were designed around the proposed layout.
Here we are, two decades later, and I still do not own a single piece of G scale equipment. Also, I have lost all desire for outdoor railroading.
Doughless I assume your neighborhood has a noise ordinance? LOL.
This is a sore subject. A few years ago, Cape Coral did away with the neighborhood noise ordinances. You can imagine the results.
They just passed a new, and much weaker ordinance, but the police say they cannot enforce it, and code enforcement says they do not have the capacity.