Hi, I have the NCE Procab -R throttle and want to re-program my locomotives using the Procab. My locomotives currently are all programed using Digitrax and JMRI. What other NCE items do I need to have in order to program my engines using the Procab? Would I be able to still connect with and use JMRI as well? I really like JMRI and hope they are compatible. Thanks for reading.
JRP
The first thing I thought when reading was... why would any engine that's currently working, need to BE "re-programmed"?
Do the engines run as they should with the NCE controller? Do all the functions work, etc. ?
If so... again... why would they need re-programming?
You won’t be using the ProCab if you use JMRI. However, you will be using the command station. JMRI will work through the command station via a cable connection between the computer and the command station.
I joined a club that uses NCE. All of my locomotives were programed using Digitrax and JMRI. Not all Digitrax CV's programed work in NCE, and the consists don't always work. I had to re-program two locos at the club from their Digitrax signals over to NCE. So, I'd like to have the right NCE equipment at my home shop in order to re-program my locomotives using NCE. The Procab cannot do this alone.
I don’t understand your question. If you want to use JMRI and have a computer, all you need is a connection between the computer and the command station. No other special equipment is required.
Also don’t understand what you mean about Digitrax CV’s being different, unless you are speaking strictly about consisting. Yes, there is a difference here because Digitrax and NCE have different opinions as to how this gets accomplished. Other than that, there is in my opinion not much difference.
JRP I joined a club that uses NCE. All of my locomotives were programed using Digitrax and JMRI. Not all Digitrax CV's programed work in NCE, and the consists don't always work. I had to re-program two locos at the club from their Digitrax signals over to NCE. So, I'd like to have the right NCE equipment at my home shop in order to re-program my locomotives using NCE. The Procab cannot do this alone.
JRPSo, I'd like to have the right NCE equipment at my home shop in order to re-program my locomotives using NCE. The Procab cannot do this alone.
First of all, are you saying the ProCab alone (well, the Power Pro system, you can't do anything with just the Pro Cab) cannot reprogram your locos using JMRI, or are you saying it cannot re-program them at all, which is what it sounds like you are saying. The Power Pro system absolutely can reprogram them without JMRI. There are two options for using the Power Pro system with JMRI - the builtin serial interface or the NCE USB adapter (although mostly advertised as being for the Power Cab it works with the Power Pro system as well). The serial interface requires a USB to RS-232 adapter (or network to RS-232 adapter, which gets a little more complicated). Not all USB to RS-232 adapters work with it so the easiest method is the NCE USB adapter.
JRPNot all Digitrax CV's programed work in NCE, and the consists don't always work.
The CV's don't know what system they are programmed on - they're going to work the same regardless. What can be different is how the system interacts with the locomotive. As mentioned, they handle consists differently. Unless you understand those differences and know how to handle them the best thing to do is always clear any consists and rebuild them on the other system when going from one to the other. If you get to a point where a loco that was ever in a consist is not responding, which ever system you are currently on, make sure it is cleared from any consist on the system and clear CV19 (program it to a value of 0) on the loco.
Another area that can be confusing is addressing. There are two loco decoder addresses, a primary (often called 2-digit or short) address and an extended (4-digit or long) address. Primary addresses can be 1-127 and extended addresses can be 0-10239 (though most systems limit them to 9999 and Digitrax to 9983). Many systems further limit the address ranges to prevent overlap. For example, with Digitrax addresses 1-127 can only be primary, you cannot run an extended address less than 128. These address differences will cause problems when trying to run trains outside a system's allowed address ranges or try to address a loco by the wrong address range.
Some examples: If you program a loco with NCE to run with an extended address of 5, you will not be able to run that loco on Digitrax without reprogramming it. Alternatively, if that loco is prgrammed to run on primary address 5 on Digitrax, it will run on NCE, but you have to make sure you select it as a primary address (you would select "5", not "0005", because leading zeros indicate to NCE that it's an extended address).
As I understand the question. You have an NCE-R throttle that you use at your club. Not an NCE system, just a throttle? At home you have a digitrax system. Right?
Even if you get an NCE system at home, there will still be incompatible consist addresses. The best way to do dual system running is to breakup consists before going to the club and re consist at the club.
I had the same situation. Instead of consisting my five Alco road switchers, I picked one and made the other four the same address as the first. To make directions easy the odd number locos were set to run in reverse in CV29. I still have these five locomotives running with the same address for over a decade. This works great for engines that will always be running together.
If you really want to have NCE at home. The least expensive way to go would be a Power Cab and USB interface. Or opt for another Power House Pro R system. But that's a lot of money.
Pete.
wrench567As I understand the question. You have an NCE-R throttle that you use at your club. Not an NCE system, just a throttle? At home you have a digitrax system. Right?
He wasn't very clear on his situation, but I think you may be right.
JRPSo, I'd like to have the right NCE equipment at my home shop in order to re-program my locomotives using NCE.
If Pete is correct on your situation, then there really is no need to buy additional equipment just to be able to program with NCE. You can do all of your programming with Digitrax because the decoder does not kow what system it was programmed on and will respond the same regardless, you just have to have an inderstanding of how the systems interract with the locos (see my previous post). This is true even if you had NCE at home and are wanting to move consists bewteen systems (if you set up a consist, at home it will not run at the club, unless you know to use the consist address, and even then, there could be a conflict with another consist).
If you want to connect JMRI to NCE here is your link.
https://www.jmri.org/help/en/html/hardware/nce/NCE.shtml
Lee
CSX Robert and others are correct. Even if you have the consists running correctly on one system even if both were NCE, Digitrax, or Lenz. There are settings held in each command station that won't be in the other command station in advanced consist modes. Another thing to consider is the clubs system memory. Even a small club can fill up the memory and it needs to be purged wiping out any consist settings you have programmed previously. My old club used Lenz. The memory was called the Stack. It held all the locomotive addresses and consist information. Periodically the Stack needed to be dumped or problems with operation would happen.
In my mind the and my past experiences running in club and home is to not transfer consisted (advanced or universal) between club and home. While decoders are strictly standardized with running CVs. Command station protocols are not. This is why your NCE throttle will not work on Digitrax. But your NCE decoder will work on any system within the BASIC programming.
Hope this helps.
OK, I should have been more clear on what I want to do. I want to go forward using NCE at home and at the club layout....no more Digitrax. All of my locomotives that are in consist always run together were originaly programed using Digitrax, so it sounds like I will want to re-consist them with NCE at home so all I have to do is take them to the club layout and run on NCE without re-consisting them at the club. In order to do that, it sounds like I could purchase the USB interface to use with my Procab or purchase the command station to work with JMRI. I realize there is a bit of price difference between the USB interface and the command station. Thanks to all of you and to Lee for giving me the link to JMRI and how to operate NCE with it. Do I make more sense now??
JRP so it sounds like I will want to re-consist them with NCE at home so all I have to do is take them to the club layout and run on NCE without re-consisting them at the club.
Ummmm, no, not exactly. The following assumes you have an NCE command station at home.
In the first place the Procab talks to the command station, not directly to the decoder. Let's assume you want to consist locos 1000 and 2000.
So you would use the cab to create the consist. Then you would follow the Cab prompts to assign the 1000 as the lead and 2000 as the trailing unit. You will also see that a consist address has been assigned to the consist. The command station does the assigning of this address, starting with 127 and either using this number or the next available lower number.
When you want to run the consist you can select either the lead or trailing loco number. However, these are really alias numbers that the command station remembers which were assigned to consist 127.
If you want to prove this out, I believe that you can select loco 127 and you will see that the consist will still run.
Anyway, what this all means is that consist information will be retained in YOUR command station, but not the club's.
The best procedure, to avoid problems/confusion, is to break up the consist at home and reconsist at the club. And before you remove the engines from the club layout, be sure to again clear the consist.
JRP it sounds like I will want to re-consist them with NCE at home so all I have to do is take them to the club layout and run on NCE without re-consisting them at the club
Even if you consist them at home with NCE you won't be bale to run them at the club unless you know to run them with the consist address (you won't be able to select the locomotive's address to run the consist). You will also have to keep track of club and home consist addresses to prevent conflicts.
JRP In order to do that, it sounds like I could purchase the USB interface to use with my Procab or purchase the command station to work with JMRI.
To program (or run) at home with the Pro Cab will need to get a command station whether or not you get the USB interface. The Pro Cab is just a cab and the USB interface is just an interface and neither one has command station capabilities. You could get the Power Pro command station, a Power Cab (which is a cab and comand station in one), or a SB5 SamrtBooster. The SmartBooster or even the Power Cab would most likiely handle your needs.
JRP OK, I should have been more clear on what I want to do. I want to go forward using NCE at home and at the club layout....no more Digitrax. All of my locomotives that are in consist always run together were originaly programed using Digitrax, so it sounds like I will want to re-consist them with NCE at home so all I have to do is take them to the club layout and run on NCE without re-consisting them at the club. In order to do that, it sounds like I could purchase the USB interface to use with my Procab or purchase the command station to work with JMRI. I realize there is a bit of price difference between the USB interface and the command station. Thanks to all of you and to Lee for giving me the link to JMRI and how to operate NCE with it. Do I make more sense now??
In my previous post I pointed out a couple of options.
1 Power Cab and USB interface.
2 Power House Pro R system.
The NCE radio throttle you own now DOES NOT have a command station in it. The Power Cab looks and functions just like your throttle except for the Power Cab having a command station built in it.
Still as others are saying. The transfer of consisted locomotives will still be problematic.
Hello All,
Welcome to the wonderful world of NCE.
I switched from the Bachmann Dynamis DCC system to NCE a few months back and have no regrets. I use the wireless Power Pro with SB5 command station/booster.
JRPMy locomotives currently are all programed (SIC) using Digitrax and JMRI.
You didn't mention what decoders are installed in your locomotives.
I use mostly Digitrax non-sound decoders.
When I switched to NCE, and used Advanced consisting, the motive power in the consists seemed to lose power.
When I contacted Digitrax I was informed that their decoders "handle" Advance consisting slightly different, and what I needed to do was give CV 57 a value of 102 (CV57=V102) to all locomotives using Digitrax decoders- -no matter what series they were.
VOILA! Problem solved.
I run JMRI DecoderPro to a standalone programming track from my Mac desktop computer.
A Digitrax PR3 is the only interface between the Mac and the programming track. Digitrax has upgraded to the PR4.
If you want to run JMRI DecoderPro directly from your computer to the command station/booster I believe you will need the USB to Serial Cable from NCE.
NCE has amazing customer service!
I would contact NCE just to make sure of the hardware needed.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
What a hassle...I thought I could use NCE at home to set up consist numbers and simply take the locos to the club (small club), use my Procab and just run the locos there since they also operate on NCE. Our old club used Digitrax along with JMRI and I would set up my locos on consist using JMRI (at home) and then take the locos to a club set up (usually a show) and simply run them fine all day. Sounds like I won't be able to do this now easily with NCE.
Thanks to you all though for the good information. JRP
JRPWhat a hassle...
Yes...it is a process.
However, once done you don't have to worry about further hassles because you are transferring your DCC motive power from NCE to NCE DCC control systems.
The Basic and Advanced consisting will transfer.
Universal consisting will need to be re-established between your home and club pikes because of the way this consisting is "held" in the individual NCE command stations.
JRPI thought I could use NCE at home to set up consist numbers and simply take the locos to the club (small club), use my Procab and just run the locos there since they also operate on NCE.
You still can but it will take some time, effort, and possibly an investment in your home pike.
The other option is to use the clubs' system to make these changes, which will carry over to your home pike.
A couple more questions...
How was your computer interfaced with the Digitrax system before?
What hardware/cables software (drivers) did you use?
When the good folks at Digitrax told me to adjust CV57=V102 for Advanced consisting, my question to them was, "Will this change in CV affect the singular (non-consisted) running of each unit?"
Their response was, "No, changing CV57 doesn't affect "normal" operations outside of Advanced consisting."
I wish I had a better answer...
JRPWhat a hassle
Not really. After you do it the first time it becomes very easy. And if you do the consisting at the club you don't need you own computer nor JMRI. And you will avoid any conflicts with consist numbers. You will only need to worry about someone else having locos with the same numbers as yours.
And when I belonged to a club, it took longer to unpack and repack the locos I brought than it took to consist and unconsist them.
Slightly off topic, but you do realize that you can't just take your Cab to the club and use it without making sure that it has a unique Cab number, correct?
JRP I would set up my locos on consist using JMRI (at home) and then take the locos to a club set up (usually a show) and simply run them fine all day. Sounds like I won't be able to do this now easily with NCE.
To be clear, I wasn't saying you couldn't do this, I was saying you would have to use the consist address to run them. I was also pointing out that you can program them with Digitrax and do the same thing, so moving to NCE won't make that aspect any easier. If you were setting up consists at home and running them at the club before, then you must have been using advanced consisting and running them from the the consist address - you can still do that, with either NCE or Digitrax at home. You do, however, have to make sure that they don't conflict with other consists created at the club. NCE automatically assigns the consist address, but it can be changed when the consist is cretaed to avoid conflicts. Also, when running the consist on NCE using the consist address, you have to make sure you select it as a "short" address (no leading zeros). For example, if the consist address is "15" and you select "015" on NCE, it won't run, you have to select it as "15."
Robert, ok, I think I understand this. So, if I want to set up consists on NCE from my home, what NCE equipment do I need to purchase? A command station? The USB interface cable? I have the Procab throttle. Will I still need to operate JMRI (which is already on my computer)? Or, does it make more sense to just program my locomotives at the club where i will be running them anyway?
JRPSo, if I want to set up consists on NCE from my home, what NCE equipment do I need to purchase?
There are actually several options (I believe these are in order of price):
4 and 5 are overkill for what you are wanting. 1-3 will all do 1 and 2 will do what you want, but have different features.
JRPA command station? The USB interface cable?
To program from the throttle, you only need the command station, you need the USB interface if you want to continue to use JMRI.
JRPWill I still need to operate JMRI (which is already on my computer)?
No.
JRPOr, does it make more sense to just program my locomotives at the club where I will be running them anyway?
If you want to be able to use the extra consisting features, such as being able to select the consist by the lead or rear engine, or you don't want to have to worry about consist address conflicts, then yes.
I still don't understand your desire to use NCE for programming. I could understand if you just prefer NCE and were wanting to completely replace your Digitrax system, but if you are only wanting it for programming, you will gain nothing over using your current Digitrax system with JMRI. Either way, if you program the consists at home you will have to run them using the consist address and make sure there are no conflicts.
Is your wireless throttle capable of running wired? If so you can get a Power Cab system and a USB interface and use your wireless throttle as an additional cab.
CSX RobertThere are actually several options (I believe these are in order of price): DCC Twin (command station with two built-in simplified throttles) Power Cab (hand held throttle with built in command station) SB5 Smartbooster (command station/booster) CS02 Command station (more advanced command station only) PH Box (more advanced command station/booster) 4 and 5 are overkill for what you are wanting. 1-3 will all do what you want, but have different features.
4 and 5 are overkill for what you are wanting. 1-3 will all do what you want, but have different features.
I need to correct myself here, I forgot that the SB5 does not have a program track so it cannot do service mode programming, which smoe decoders require for address changes.
The SB5 is an add on for the Power Cab. It can be used as a dumb booster for the Power House system. The SB5 has ZERO command station capability on its own.
The dual throttle has no computer interface so would not be a good choice for the OP.
The most cost effective alternative to the OP who has a wireless throttle is either a Power Cab and USB interface or a complete PH system. With those he can still use his wireless throttle with a tether.
Pete
wrench567 The SB5 is an add on for the Power Cab. It can be used as a dumb booster for the Power House system. The SB5 has ZERO command station capability on its own. The dual throttle has no computer interface so would not be a good choice for the OP. The most cost effective alternative to the OP who has a wireless throttle is either a Power Cab and USB interface or a complete PH system. With those he can still use his wireless throttle with a tether. Pete
The DB5 is a dumb booster only, the SB5 is a Smart Booster and absolutely does have command station capabilities, although with no program track output. The NCE USB interface works with the DCC Twin and SB5 as well as the Power Cab.
JRPSo, if I want to set up consists on NCE from my home, what NCE equipment do I need to purchase? A command station? The USB interface cable? I have the Procab throttle.
After reading your posts multiple times I believe I now understand your situation.
The NCE DCC system is compatible with JMRI DecoderPro, however...
You only purchased the NCE Pro Cab-R (wireless) throttle to run at your club. You didn't purchase any other NCE components that complete the NCE wireless system.
To use your Pro Cab-R throttle at home you will need the other components that make up the wireless DCC system:
The advantage of adding a UTP is that to program some aspects of the Pro Cab-R you need to physically plug the throttle into the command station/booster.
When you purchased only the radio throttle all the other components necessary to even run trains on your pike is supplied by the club- -all the items I listed above.
To run your radio throttle at home you need all the other components that make up the NCE DCC system- -whether you use JMRI DecoderPro or not.
Other than investing in all the other components to complete the wireless NCE DCC system your only other option is to use the club components to program your locomotives.
The Pro Cab-R wireless throttle will not interface with JMRI DecoderPro without the other components I listed.
You will also need the USB to Serial Cable to connect your PC/Mac to the command station/booster to send programming information from JMRI DecoderPro to Program On The Main or the Programming Track output on the PH Box.
If you choose to set up a stand-alone programming track, using JMRI DecoderPro from your PC/Mac, you will need a Digitrax PR4 (or similar interface)- -no matter what control system you use; Digitrax, NCE, MRC, Dynamis, etc.
Even if you do purchase the DCC Twin "Train Set" Controller, to use your wireless throttle you still would need the RB02 916.50MHz wireless base station V2.1 and a cable long enough to connect the base station to the DCC twin to take advantage of wireless operation.
With a six (6) conductor cable you can plug your wireless throttle directly into the DCC Twin, making it a tethered throttle. But this is separate from JMRI DecoderPro.
Again, sorry I wish I had better news...
jjdamnitWith a six (6) conductor cable you can plug your wireless throttle directly into the DCC Twin, making it a tethered throttle. But this is separate from JMRI DecoderPro.
The DCC Twin will work with JMRI with the NCE USB interface. Unless he has a large home layout he wants to use it on, the PH Pro system is overkill. He could program from the Pro Cab and run a small to medium sized layout (3 amp, 6 cab limit) by purchasing just the DCC Twin, and he could program using JMRI by adding the NCE USB interface.
CSX RobertUnless he has a large home layout he wants to use it on, the PH Pro system is overkill.
I have a 4'x8' pike and use the PH Pro wireless system. It doesn't seem to be "overkill" for me.
CSX RobertHe could program from the Pro Cab and run a small to medium sized layout (3 amp, 6 cab limit) by purchasing just the DCC Twin...
I agree.
But to get the Pro Cab-R (wireless) to work with the Twin he will need a 6 conductor cable to tether the wireless cab to the Twin.
If he wants to retain the wireless capability he will need the RB02 916.50MHz wireless base station V2.1 and a 6 conductor cable to attach the RB02 to the Twin.
The Pro Cab-R (wireless) does not have the built-in capability to provide signal and power as the Pro Cab Delux does.
I use the Digitrax PR3 from my desktop computer running JMRI DecoderPro to a stand-alone programming track.
To connect my desktop computer to the PH-Pro command station/booster, to run JMRI DecoderPro through the NCE system, I would need to use the USB to serial cable.
We all agree that the OP is missing some key components to achieve his goal.
If the OP wants to retain the wireless capabilities of his cab he will need more than just the twin and a USB interface.
For more information on NCE & JMRI DecoderPro check out this web page from NCE.