maxmanTom, I'd like to move my and other non-relevent posts concerning the OP's original question to a new thread. Is this something you can do? Thanks
Thanks
Unfortunately, the glitchy forum software removed that capability 3 or 4 years, Rick. The only thing that I'm able to do with a thread anymore is edit it, delete it, or move it.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Lee 1234If you want to follow along
Thanks.
Been there, done that. I believe that there is a default linear curve for CV 25 value 16. Issue seems to be that changes to the values in those CVs doesn't change corresponding speeds.
If you want to follow along look up CV29 here;
https://soundtraxx.com/content/Reference/Manuals/Tsunami/tsunamisteam_users_guide.pdf
CV25 is here; tsutechreference.pdf (soundtraxx.com)
My opinion is a value of 16 for CV 25 only works if have CVs 67-94 programmed. I would try values 2 thru 15 before I went thru the effort of defining my own speed table.
Lee
Tom, I'd like to move my and other non-relevent posts concerning the OP's original question to a new thread. Is this something you can do?
Maxman.
Probably a good idea about a new thread. My apologies to the OP for the tangent.
Pete.
Should really start a different thread on this.
However to answer some questions, running on DC doesn't come into play here because both engines will run on DCC.
The goal was to be able to speed match the two engines to other engines. Because the two decoders in question don't have CV 5 and CV 6, 3-point speed programming was out and using speed tables becomes necessary.
As of right now we are having difficulty getting either decoder to accept the table curves, including the user generated curve.
Spoke to a nice person at Soundtraxx yesterday and determined that part of the issue was ours.
The first decoder is a Soundtraxx LC series item. He groaned when I told him that, and said that he had never seen one. Anyway reset for this decoder is not CV 8 = 8. It is CV 30 = 2. Me bad. This got the first engine at least running.
The second decoder is a Tsunami (original, not Tsunami 2). For this CV 8 = 8, but you have to cut power after making this change. When power is re-applied, the headlight is supposed to flash 16 times. Didn't know the flashy thing (Men In Black?) and was probably jumping into changes ahead of the game. So after the flashy thing that engine also ran.
What we are currently having difficulty with is getting either decoder to accept the speed curves. We have set CV 29 to a value of 50, which is correct. And we have set CV 25 to a value of 16 which should give us the programmed-in linear speed curve.
Just got off the phone with "F" and we might be making some progress. Unfortunately it appears that what we have is two blind guys playing horseshoes, one trying to describe where the pin is, and the other trying to describe where the shoe landed after he threw it.
Yes, I wouldn't give up on an engine or a brand just because of this issue. It's much more likely this is a problem with getting the DCC system and decoder to play nice with each other than it is that either the control system or engine/decoder is faulty. Someone else with a different system might find the engine works just fine.
I've had situations where a decoder ID programmed by one system (Digitrax) couldn't be recognized by another system (CVP)...but if I changed the ID with DecoderPro, both accepted it. I have some decoders that can't be programmed using a booster, and some can't be programmed without one. Some decoder CV's won't read on one system, but will on another.
BTW has the OP ever run the engine on DC since it has a 'dual mode' decoder? If it works on DC there's no hardware issue like a loosened wire connection etc.
Some decoders and some controlers don't play nice together, I know it is not soposed to be that way but have seen it many times.
Probably a good idea at this point. Was at F’s house this afternoon and could not get two different Soundtraxx decoders to accept speed curves. Guess I’ll have to start a new thread on that issue.
maxman,
I have two Powercabs.
For now, I think I will set one of the Bachmann locos aside and purchase no more Bachmann locos, but stay with MTH or BLI.
Update.
I think that I am at the point where I may have identified the decoder. I believe that it may be a Soundtraxx LC series item.
I am also about to jump to a conclusion that a lot of F's programming issues may be due to the fact that the NCE programming "power" is not sufficient, and that he either needs a booster or invest in a PowerCab.
Yes, a mind bender.
And now F put the same values in another Tsunami loco and reports back that it doesn't respond to speed CV value changes.
Lessons learned:
a. Don't volunteer.
b. Don't try to help those who won't help themselves.
c. Don't push against a rope.
d. Peeing up a rope in the snow doesn't mean you'll get a lemon ice cone.
Thank you for the acronym index. Wow what a saga. I had some old Soundtrack decoders. I remember when they were only sound with no motor and lights you needed another decoder for those. And yes the next versions had rudimentary motor control and simple on off lights. The pre tsunami was better by far but still lacking in the motor control department.
I still don't understand why you needed the three digits for simple CVs. It's a mystery.
Okay, here goes. A couple of definitions: F = Friend; PwrC = PowerCab; Pcab = ProCab; OTP = over the phone/email.
F's goal was to speed match some diesels. I had helped him OTP to start doing as he wanted. He told me that he was having trouble with one engine doing the three point CV2/5/6 thing.
He has a Pcab and was using that to enter CV values.
I asked him what decoder was installed and he told me an older Soundtraxx, not the latest Tsunami2. I informed him then that the original Tsunami did not have CVs 5 and 6 so he could use his Pcab to enter values in thse CVs until the cows came home and not get anywhere. F was disappointed to hear that as he has a number of locos with Soundtraxx decoders installed.
I told him that his option was to use JMRI to develop a user speed curve. Since he doesn't have JMRI, I told him that he could use one of the decoder built-in optional curves and adjust from there. So how to do that?
I told him that he needed to make CV 29 = 50, and make CV 25 = to one of the numbers on the Soundtrax speed curve chart, let's assume 12 for this discussion.
So F does this and tells me that engine will no longer run. What do you mean it won't run, says I. F says it won't run. Okay, reset the decoder and tell me if it runs. F does and says it now runs.
Okay, try again. Set CV29 to 50 and CV25 to 12 and see how it runs. F says engine won't run. What, says I again. Okay, reset it one more time and tell me what happens. F says engine now runs. Okay, one more time with CVs 29 and 25. Engine won't run.
All of the setting and resetting F is doing at this point is with his Pcab on his program track. I asked him if he was sure that he was entering the values correctly, and he told me he was sure because he could read back the CVs with his Pcab. I told him that I didn't think he could read back CVs with his Pcab, neither on the main nor on the program track. He told me that he could, and I didn't wish to debate that point further just then.
So, what next? I volunteered to bring my PwrC and a programming track to his place to see if we could figure out what was happening. That way the programming would be isolated from his layout.
Put the engine on the ptrack and reset it. It ran. Used the Pwrc to enter a value of 50 into CV 29 and 12 into CV25. Engine didn't run. WT*! Stared at it for a while and then noticed that the Pwrc display showed *** where the values needed to be entered. Hummm. Maybe it wants a 3-digit value. So instead of entering 50 and 12, I entered 050 and 012. Success. Engine now runs.
But wait. There's more.
Changed CV 25 to a value of 16, which is the built-in straight line curve. Engine now ran except not at the desired speeds. So I said okay, let's runs the engine and adjust the CV values corresponding to steps 1, 7, 14, 21, and 28 to the speeds you want, and I'll take them home and use the JMRI program to generate a curve that will fit those points.
Did that and had him enter the new values. Everything came out pretty close, except that loco would not move until speed step 3. Okay, let's change all the values for speed steps 1 thru 7 to the speed step 7 value, and then adjust the value at speed step one until the loco ran. Tell me that value and I'll adjust the values of steps 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6. he did, and I did.
But wait, there's still more.
F enters the values and now tells me that all the speeds are now incorrect. And curiously, they are all now about half of what was expected.
But wait, there's even more. In the emails I keep saying Tsunami, and he keeps saying Soundtraxx. I finally asked why. He says it's a Soundtraxx, not a Tsunami. Ummm, what do you mean? I checked the manufacturer number when I was at your place and it came up 141, which is the assigned number for Throttleup (Soundtraxx). F says that may be so, but it is a Soundtraxx, not a Tsunami. I says then what exactly is it. F says he doesn't know.
Somewhere during all of the above F told me that the ID was 141 and the version was 35, and he got that from his Pcab. So out of curiosity I went to the Soundtraxx site and looked through all the applicable manuals. Hmmm, no version 35 anywhere. So I asked F to please go back and tell me what the ID and version were. Now, suddenly, he tells me that when he looks he gets a cannot read CV message. Well, alrighty then.
As it stands right now, I have asked F to give me the engine and let me mess with it at home. He seems reluctant to do that. Maybe he's afraid that I'll find out he entered something incorrectly. Oh well.
Didn’t forget. Saga continue.
maxman Tom and Pete: Yes we thought odd also. Will craft a more detailed reply hopefully later today. Had one started this morning while I was in the throne room but pushed a wrong key and it got flushed away.
Tom and Pete:
Yes we thought odd also.
Will craft a more detailed reply hopefully later today. Had one started this morning while I was in the throne room but pushed a wrong key and it got flushed away.
That's what happens when you try to work in the oval office.
I have several Tsunami decoders factory installed and user installed.. I never had to add a leading 0 for programming with the Power Cab. Is there something else hooked to the system like a PTB, or the NCE program track switch? That is truly odd.
Maybe it's a Tsunami thing, maxman. I don't have any Tsunami/Tsunami2s installed in any of my locomotives and I have NEVER had to add a leading zero when entering or changing a CV value using my Power Cab. If the value is one-digit (e.g. CV8=2) I just enter "2"; if the value is two-digit (e.g. CV29=34) I enter "34", etc.
I would suggest that you stop jumping around from this steam loco and that diesel loco and concentrate on one of them. All the jumping around does is confuse everyone.
Then identify exactly which decoder you are trying to "correct".
Please confirm that you are using the PowerCab, by itself, with its provided power supply, and flat wire cable connected to the left socket on the PCP panel when the led is at the bottom.
Please confirm that you are using the provided PCP panel and not a UTP panel. I think they look the same, with the exception of the socket to which the track power wires are connected.
Please confirm that while programming you have the PowerCab set to program on the program track.
Note that if you the engine sitting on the program track, but with the cab not in any programming mode, and it is making any sounds, then there is nothing wrong with the connection between the cab and the track.
With the loco on the track and the Cab set to program on programming track, reset the decoder.
While still on the program track, where it asks you if you want to do options 1, 2, or 3, choose option 1. The cab should read the decoder, starting with the decoder ID. Record this value, as it will confirm who made the decoder. I believe that NCE has a list on their website wwith a manufacturer list.
Then go ahead and program (still on program track mode) the engine address you want (short/long), that you want to use the normal direction, that you want to use 28/128 speed steps, that you do not want analog operation, and that you are not going to use speed curves.
When you are setting the cab addresses, make sure that you use 3 for the short address, and activate this address. You can set long address to whatever you want, preferably the number on the side of the loco cab, but don't activate this now.
Now set the cab to option 2 on the programming menu.
Read and record value of CV 29. It should be 34.
Read and record value of CV 19. This is the consist CV. Since you reset the decoder it should be zero.
Now escape from the cab programming mode.
When it wants you to select loco, enter 3 (the short address)
See if loco runs and makes noise.
A warning. I found out something today while trying to help a friend get a Tsunami, original version, running that would run after reset but appeared to not want to accept any CV values when those values were entered manually.
I was using a PowerCab connected to an isolated test track.
While entering values into the CVs, a leading zero was required if the value was only a two digit value. For example, we wanted to enter a value of 34 into CV 29.
If we entered 34, the loco would revert to it's "I ain't gonna run" condition and had to be reset. After a period of frustration, I noticed that when ready to accept a value the screen was flashing ***. A-ha, said the brain, maybe it wants 3 digits.
So instead of entering 34, I entered 034. That worked. For any of the other values we changed, a leading zero was entered and everything worked fine.
I never knew this and don't know if it is an anomaly of the PowerCab or the decoder.
Good luck.
TheK4KidTStage, how would I performa factory reset on the TCS WOW Sound decoder in the GP 9?
Ed,
CV8=2 will reset your TCS Wow decoder to original factory settings. As mentioned, make sure you cycle power after the reset. It should then respond to address "3".
I do appreciate the help from all f you.
I am learning as I go along.
TStage, how would I performa factory reset on the TCS WOW Sound decoder in the GP 9?
By te way I looked at your layout and how yougot into MRRing!
MIne was bit different, but I got the bug from both my Granddad and my Dad.
Granddad worked for Sears and Roebuck in Ft Wayne Indiana. It was the week of Christmas 1956, I was 5 years old and Grnadad took me to work with him on a Saturday and left me with the guy who was running the Lionel "O" gauge trains in the big display windows.
I recall there were at least 4 trains running at once. I was hooked!
Dad also always set up his two Lionel trains around our Christmas tree every year from 1956 until about 1989, and let me run the trains!
When I bought the home I live in now, it has a large basement and about 1/4 of it is where I built my HO layout.
It is 6 feet wide and 24 feet long with two mains, and two smaller circuits. I still have a lot to do on it.
It sets at a heighthof 45 inches aboive the floor, and is made up of three 6x8 foot tables, all of which can be taken apart and easily moved if I should ever move or have my garage modified and extended and build a newer or larger layout.
I am now retired and have time to dedicate to it. I am in no hurry, and have often changed my mind on different aspects of it.I recently tore part of it up and made some changes.
But I am somewhat of a neophyte when it comes to DCC and CVs.I grew up in a fiberglass boat building family and worked several school summer vacations in the factory and was taught how to use many power tools, etc by my Dad and several of my uncles. My Uncle Ab Crosby who started the business in the early 1950s and my Dad both had once worked for the Pennsylvania Railroad.Uncle Ab was both a fireman and later aengineer on PRR steam engines and pullwed many trains of war materials during the 1940's
Dad left to join the US Navy during the war and later returned as a brakeman but later left and went into the boat business with my Uncle.
The boat business is now closed some time ago, but still has quite a follwing groups. The original name was Crosby Aeromarine, ad later changed to Hydrodyne Boats.
There is now a Facebook group called "The Hydroyners" and "Fiberglassics".
Anyway I'll give some of your advice a try and see what happens!
Thanks!
Ed
wjstixBTW if you're trying the long (4-digit) address, be sure CV29 is set to allow long addresses....
K4Kid,
If you use programming track mode to initially program your locomotive to its 4-digit cab address, your Power Cab will change CV29 for you. To do that:
I say "Yes" to and setup both short & long address on my locomotives...
Check carefully that the tender plugs are inserted all the way, bent pins, or upside down. The fact you have sound, whistle, and bell indicates the decoder is responding to commands. No motor operation could be either no connection or programming. We're any of your locomotives in a consist? Try on the program track to set CV 19 to zero.
There is no need for a programming track booster. The Power Cab has enough power to program any decoder on the market.
Keep in mind the fact you're not able to read CVs doesn't mean that you can't program/change them. I have several engines with MRC sound decoders that I can program in Page mode using my Digitrax Zephyr's programming track, but I can't read the CVs back.
I've found most all decoders can be read using Decoder Pro. I have a PR4 connected to a separate programming track and connected to an old laptop I keep on the workbench. It's helpful because it's easier than you might think to put an amount into the wrong CV. I've done things like try to change CV5 to 200 and put 200 into CV4 instead, so the engine started fine but then ran forever because the stopping momentum was so high.
Never hurts to change CVs 2-3-4-5-6 all to zero. Zero basically turns CV6 (midrange) off, and zero in CV5 actually changes top speed to full power.
BTW if you're trying the long (4-digit) address, be sure CV29 is set to allow long addresses....
Are the wheels on your 2-6-0 and GP9 clean? How about your programming track? Are you using a programming track or your layout track to test/program?
Clean both the wheels and track with alcohol and a Q-tip to rule that out. I would also make sure that your plugs between the locomotive and tender are fully seated. That can cause issues, too.
And, no, you don't need a booster for your Power Cab. It has plenty of power to program sound decoders. If you are getting a "Cannot read CV" then there is something blocking your Power Cab (e.g. crud, bad connection) from reading your decoders.
Lastly, try running your GP9 on address "3". If that doesn't work, perform a factory reset and see if it responds to address "3". Also, be sure to cycle power (turn off then on) your Power Cab after you perform a factory reset. That often completes the reset.
Okay, I received the new NCE panel for the NCE POwer cab.
I am able to program my Bachmann 2-6-0 steam engine to either factory code of "3" and or the number on the loco cab of "7080" It will idle, I have whistle, bell and headlamp bit it will not move forward or reverse!
Have I missed something?
I am using the NCE manual for the Power Cab.
I often get "cannot read CV"
I also was able to program my Bachman "sound on board" Berkshire Nickel Plate "765"steam locomotive from the factory set code of 3 to "7650" and it has all functions and runs both in forwards and reverse.
However using the NCE Power Cab manual I cannot get the Bachmann 2-6-0 to move either forward or reverse.
Am I going to need a DCC programming booster?
Any help would be appreciated!
I also have a Bachnmann GP9 diesel with with a TCS WOW Sound 101 diesel decoder in it that ranwhen I first purchased it used on the cab number "7015" but I cant get it to do anything at all now using the Power Cab and the NCE manual.
It was running several months ago, then I set it aside and now it does nothing.
Thanks Pete,
I found the flat cable and hooked it up.
I could get sound, headlight, bell and whistle on the Bachmann 4-6-0 but the readout on the on the Powercab kept saying can't read CV.
However on factory code 3 the 4-6-0 wouldn't move even though I had headlamp , bell ad whistle on it.
I tried several times. Then I lost power to the test track again.
I think the PCP is defective. I used my VOM once again to troubleshoot. I have power in, but no power out of the PCP to the test track.
I am guessing the PCP is intermitent and I will have to replace it.
I tried to program my Bachmann Berkshire 765 loco and had the same problem , could not read CV.
K4.
You have to use the flat connector cord not the coiled one. There are two plugs on the PCP. You have to use the one on the left with the LED on the bottom half. The coiled cord does not have enough wires for track power. The flat wire has six wires and two are track power.