Hi all,
I am working on a new Intermountain ET44AC today. The loco looks nice and runs nicely. But I have an interesting issue. Opening the box, the loco runs no problem. All DCC functions work. But when I set the address to the loco number (on programming track), sounds and light work well but the loco does not move, no matter which speed and which direction. I then reset the loco to factory default. The loco moves nicely, sounds and light work nicely. I have no clue what is going on. Does anyone have any hint?
Jerry
Jerry,
What DCC system are you using? How are you addressing the loco number?
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
It sounds like you may have the address you are setting it to in a command station consist. If that's the case, then the command station will only send function commands when the loco address is selected and won't send motor commands unless the consist address is selected.
I used Digitrax DCS 210 command station and programmed the address on a program track. It has no problem with my other locos. Just tried again, still have the same problem...
tstage Jerry, What DCC system are you using? How are you addressing the loco number? Tom
This is a good suggestion. I will try a different address and see what happens...
CSX Robert It sounds like you may have the address you are setting it to in a command station consist. If that's the case, then the command station will only send function commands when the loco address is selected and won't send motor commands unless the consist address is selected.
You are right, CSX Robert! I programmed another random address and the loco moves immediately. A very good and fun lesson! Many thanks!
I have never used an Old Style Consist, choosing instead to use an Advanced Consist. My understanding is that an Advanced Consist is referred to as a Decoder Assisted Consist as opposed to a Command Station Assisted Consist.
My question is, why would someone choose to use a Command Station Assisted Consist?
Rich
Alton Junction
If this is a new loco my question would be how did it get into any sort of consist in the first place.
Did you try a factory reset? If not, try that and then program your engine to the road number you were going to use and see what happens. It may take a couple times to reset, but give it a try...
Most times just using the default number, which in many cases is '03' the loco will run as it should. I use NCE, so it may be different with Digitrax..
Neal
richhotrainMy question is, why would someone choose to use a Command Station Assisted Consist?
Personally, I use a mix. Consists that tend to stay together I use advanced (decoder assisted) consisting, but for more temporary consists I usually use command station consisting. Using this scheme I can also do a "consist of consists." If I have an advanced consist pulling a train and want to add another advanced consist of helpers, I can create a command station consist of the two advanced consists instead of breaking one down and adding the locos individually to the other.
maxman If this is a new loco my question would be how did it get into any sort of consist in the first place.
With a command station consist, you are telling the command station that address x belongs to consist address y. Nothing gets programmed in the decoder because it is all stored in the command station, so you do not actually have to have the locomotive to add it to the consist. It's possible he had another loco with the same address, or that he entered an address wrong when adding one to a consist.
CSX Robert richhotrain My question is, why would someone choose to use a Command Station Assisted Consist? Well for one, it's the Digitrax default and they work fine, so for many people the question would be why not? It's just a different way of doing it and they both have their advantages and disadvantages. I think the main reason for Digitrax choosing command station consisting as the default is because in the early days of DCC, most decoders didn't support advanced consists, so for those decoders a command station consist was the only option unless you wanted to program the decoders to the same address (sometimes called "brute force" consisting). Personally, I use a mix. Consists that tend to stay together I use advanced (decoder assisted) consisting, but for more temporary consists I usually use command station consisting. Using this scheme I can also do a "consist of consists." If I have an advanced consist pulling a train and want to add another advanced consist of helpers, I can create a command station consist of the two advanced consists instead of breaking one down and adding the locos individually to the other.
richhotrain My question is, why would someone choose to use a Command Station Assisted Consist?
Well for one, it's the Digitrax default and they work fine, so for many people the question would be why not? It's just a different way of doing it and they both have their advantages and disadvantages. I think the main reason for Digitrax choosing command station consisting as the default is because in the early days of DCC, most decoders didn't support advanced consists, so for those decoders a command station consist was the only option unless you wanted to program the decoders to the same address (sometimes called "brute force" consisting).
Just wake up. Wow, thank you so much for the replies.
When CSX Robert mentioned about possibly because of consisting, I felt it makes perfect sense. Laster, I was also wondering when this loco was put into a consist. I checked my list of locos and cannot find this number. So I felt I might do this unintensionlly.
This morning, after seeing all the suggestions, before I replied I went for another check. The problem is still there and becomes more interesting.
The loco number is 2670 so I am trying to set the address to 2670.
It is still as I said before, when the address is set 2670, all functions (sound, lights, etc) work but not moving. I used my command station DCS 240 to remove it from any MU list. Still, it does not move. However, if I set the address to another one, 2671, it moves with sound and lights. I also tried another number 2680, and tried reset to factory default with address 3, all worked.
I felt that 2670 might be a mysterious number. So I set a Walthers Mainline loco, which also uses ESU decoder, to number 2670. The walthers loco behaves normally. It moves with sound and lights. I even put the two locos on the same track and both have the same address 2670. The Walthers loco has sound and lights and moves, and the intermountain one has sound and lights but does not move...
I guess I can live with setting this 2670 train to the address of 2671. But still curious about what happens....
richhotrainThanks. Are there downsides to command station consisting?
Yes. Motor commands have to be sent to every loco in the consist, whereas in an advanced consist motor commands are just sent to the consist address and every loco in the consist responds. Not really an issue on most home layouts, but when running really large numbers of locos it can affect loco response times.
Since they are stored in the command station, you can be more limited in the number of consists you can have and they can affect how many single locos you can run. For example, a Digitrax Zephyr has 12 "slots." That means it can't have more than six two loco command station consists, or four three loco consists. With two three loco consists (6 slots), you can only run an additional 6 single locos at a time.
Advanced consists have more flexible function control. For example, with sound locos you can have only the lead loco horn and bell, but all locos dynamic breaks and break squeal, respond to the consist address.
CSX Robert, good to know Digitrax Zephyr has 12 slots. How many slots does DCS 210 have?
CSX Robert richhotrain Thanks. Are there downsides to command station consisting? Yes. Motor commands have to be sent to every loco in the consist, whereas in an advanced consist motor commands are just sent to the consist address and every loco in the consist responds. Not really an issue on most home layouts, but when running really large numbers of locos it can affect loco response times. Since they are stored in the command station, you can be more limited in the number of consists you can have and they can affect how many single locos you can run. For example, a Digitrax Zephyr has 12 "slots." That means it can't have more than six two loco command station consists, or four three loco consists. With two three loco consists (6 slots), you can only run an additional 6 single locos at a time. Advanced consists have more flexible function control. For example, with sound locos you can have only the lead loco horn and bell, but all locos dynamic breaks and break squeal, respond to the consist address.
richhotrain Thanks. Are there downsides to command station consisting?
Many thanks for the help! It is a good learning experience. The problem seems solved, although I don't know why.
I checked my loco and read Intermountain ET44AC instruction again. The function F15 is "isolation switch". The manual says "Pressing F15 while stopped will lower the prime mover and lock motor. F15 must be turned off to begin moving". I don't really know what this means. My F15 was not on. I then turned it on, then off. Interestingly, the loco with 2670 as address starts to move! If I turn on F15, it would not move. Turn off F15, moves again.
So the problem seems to be solved. But I still don't understand why this only happened when I set the address to 2760. With other addresses, it had no such a problem. Also, why Intermountain has this F15 function?
Does anyone have similar experience or know this F15 function?
hjQi Hi all, Many thanks for the help! It is a good learning experience. The problem seems solved, although I don't know why. I checked my loco and read Intermountain ET44AC instruction again. The function F15 is "isolation switch". The manual says "Pressing F15 while stopped will lower the prime mover and lock motor. F15 must be turned off to begin moving". I don't really know what this means. My F15 was not on. I then turned it on, then off. Interestingly, the loco with 2670 as address starts to move! If I turn on F15, it would not move. Turn off F15, moves again. So the problem seems to be solved. But I still don't understand why this only happened when I set the address to 2760. With other addresses, it had no such a problem. Also, why Intermountain has this F15 function? Does anyone have similar experience or know this F15 function? Jerry
Isolating” a particular locomotive means that the prime mover is still running, but the main generator and electrical system for propulsion are disconnected. It will have current for auxiliaries (light, heat) and continue to make air for the brake system. F15 is just replicating that proto-type feature.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
hjQi I checked my loco and read Intermountain ET44AC instruction again. The function F15 is "isolation switch". The manual says "Pressing F15 while stopped will lower the prime mover and lock motor. F15 must be turned off to begin moving". I don't really know what this means. My F15 was not on. I then turned it on, then off. Interestingly, the loco with 2670 as address starts to move! If I turn on F15, it would not move. Turn off F15, moves again.
Thanks, Mark. That seems to be exactly what it did to my loco. Also, this seems to be new to DCC, as I don't see this function in many other DCC systems.
Mark R. Isolating” a particular locomotive means that the prime mover is still running, but the main generator and electrical system for propulsion are disconnected. It will have current for auxiliaries (light, heat) and continue to make air for the brake system. F15 is just replicating that proto-type feature. Mark.
Hi Rich,
Yes, it seems that F15 gave the problem. But it seems something else was wrong also, as this problem only showed up when I set the address to 2670 (no problem with other address). In addition, when I set address to 2670, F15 was not on but it functioned. I actually checked last night to see if any other functions (F10-F29) were on. None was on. So there are still something that I don't know/understand.
richhotrain So, the problem was that the F15 isolation switch was On? The problem was not a command station consist? Rich
So, the problem was that the F15 isolation switch was On? The problem was not a command station consist?
No offense, Jerry, but I'll bet that F15 was initially On, not Off.
No worry, Rich. The discussions were great!
I also think it was intially on. But the "on" was not shown in my throttle (UT6). Also, I re-set the loco several times and set the address to other numbers. In those cases, I am not sure if F15 was on. It seemed that F15 was only on when I set the address to 2670. That is the part I don't quite understand...
richhotrain No offense, Jerry, but I'll bet that F15 was initially On, not Off. Rich
Yeah, that is a bit strange.
hjQi CSX Robert, good to know Digitrax Zephyr has 12 slots. How many slots does DCS 210 have?
100
hjQiI also think it was intially on. But the "on" was not shown in my throttle (UT6)
It's not all that unusual for the throttle to not match the decoder with functions above F13. With F0 through F12, the command station sends constant updates to the decoder, so they really can't get out of sync. With F13 and above, the command station generally does not send constant updates, when you turn a function on or off, it sends a function on or off command, usually a few times to make sure the loco gets it, but not constantly. If you have the loco off the track, on a siding with powered turned off, or have the system track powered turned off, and you turn one of the higher functions on or off the loco will not get the command and will likey be out of sync with the controller when it gets power again.
Digitrax dose not recognise some numbers, had that happen to me.
Good to know. This is a lot and I don't have to worry for a while...
CSX Robert 100
I see. This reminds me that I did have several times when I put a loco back on track, it behaved a little bit weird at the beginning and I had to play with functions a little bit. This is good to know. Many thanks, Robert!
CSX Robert It's not all that unusual for the throttle to not match the decoder with functions above F13. With F0 through F12, the command station sends constant updates to the decoder, so they really can't get out of sync. With F13 and above, the command station generally does not send constant updates, when you turn a function on or off, it sends a function on or off command, usually a few times to make sure the loco gets it, but not constantly. If you have the loco off the track, on a siding with powered turned off, or have the system track powered turned off, and you turn one of the higher functions on or off the loco will not get the command and will likey be out of sync with the controller when it gets power again.
Thanks for sharing your experience, Rrebell. This is good to know.
rrebell Digitrax dose not recognise some numbers, had that happen to me.