I can't believe I even did it.
I installed a wired Loksound micro V5 in a late 90s P2K SD9. I wired the motor for long hood forward, 3mm LEDs and 1K resistors, and two 11x15 sugar cubes. Shoehorned the shell on and programed it. So far so good. Moving forward it hit me like a 2x4 to the back of my head. The motor works great but the headlights are reversed. And of course my wire runs do not allow for a quick swap. So I made a new harness and LED set. Why I did short hood headlights is beyond me. Its such a bonehead mistake, I'm still in shock.
Has anybody done anything like this?
Pete.
My most frequent mistake is completely forgetting the resistor for the headlight LEDs. My most recent one was on a Proto 2000 2-10-2 and the LED is buried deep inside the boiler
In your case you could have reassigned F0F and F0R and saved the hassle of rewiring. I don't recall the exact CV values (I cheat and use a Lokprogrammer) but it is easily done.
Regards, Ed
I have, but instead of your route, I just swapped ends through programming.
I know, I know .... not the "proper" solution, but if you saw how tight the install was, I wasn't about to tear it apart again.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
I try to set up headlights to work independently of each other (same as it was on the big engines). And to dim, if the decoder supports it. Some decoders make this easy; others require more work. A few I've tried can't seem to do it at all.
Could you use JMRI to swap the functions around? (that's what I do). Or... change the default direction of the engine?
Believe me, I thought about remapping. I guess it's age but I wanted it right. I took the time and effort to carve out wire channels in the weights. Bedded the wires in the channels using Locktite sticky putty and capton tape. Remapping would seem like cheating. Anyway. I still have the LEDs that can be salvaged for another install later. I still have 2 more SD9 and a GP7 to do.
Thanks for the encouragement.
Nice to know there are others who, like me, make these kind of absent-minded mistakes...
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
I do the motor reverse thing a lot . Sometimes I just cut and resolder the white and yellow wire. Or the orange and grey. Depends on what is easier
shane
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space
Lastspikemike Wouldn't reversing the grey and orange motor connections have been easier? Red to grey and black to orange to mismatch the motor wiring to match the mismatched light harness?
Wouldn't reversing the grey and orange motor connections have been easier? Red to grey and black to orange to mismatch the motor wiring to match the mismatched light harness?
Reversing the motor wires would have made the motor and lights match, but then everything would have been reversed - forward would be reverse and reverse would be forward. That's easy enough to fix by changing the normal direction of travel using CV29, but many people would prefer to correct the wiring.
Hey, didn't some roads run them that way?
It's not really boneheaded unless smoke is involved
Let me expain. I got this from my father, who was an electronics technician aboard an aircraft carrier in World War II.
When an electronic device is manufactured, the factory injects magic smoke into it. This makes it do whatever function it is designed to do. The device fails when the smoke containment magic spell fails, releasing the smoke and killing the device.
IF you have a Lokprogrammer (or Decoder Pro), I'd think you could have just changed which light does what in programming without making any physical changes to the engine. It wouldn't have required function remapping.
wjstix IF you have a Lokprogrammer (or Decoder Pro), I'd think you could have just changed which light does what in programming without making any physical changes to the engine. It wouldn't have required function remapping.
That's exactly what function remapping is.
LastspikemikeBut that doesn't matter when running DCC. Plus prototype had no reverse or forward which is presumably the reason for the tiny letter F.
It does if you want the locomotive to go in the direction of that tiny F when the throttle says forward and the other direction when it says reverse. Furthermore, its rather critical to know which direction is forward when you are consisting.
My prototype ran some of their diesels (e.g. road switchers & geeps) long hood forward so I have to add a "1" to the value of CV29 to make it operate that way. Otherwise, they are running in "REV"...even though the throttle says "FWD".
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
On the PRR except for the cab units (F, E, PA, and Sharks) all the other first gen diesels ran long hood forward. Even the switchers. I think it was that way until the U boats arrived.
I wired this decoder to eliminate the usual excess wire that gets bunched up. I think the next one will be using a decoder buddy board. I have a couple of PA and PB units that could use sound.
Has anyone done any sound decoders in older Atlas RS1, RS3 or RSD4/5 units without sacrificing both weights? I have a mix of six of them. They already have mobile decoders. I also have a few Bowser/ Stewart Baldwin switchers that need rumbling devices.
LastspikemikeAdding 1 to CV29 should fix that F and R issue though?
Yep.
LastspikemikeI don't think my ESU Cab Control labels the direction arrows but I forget just at the moment.
Even if there's not a label, surely there's a standard for forward and reverse, for example right forward and left reverse (some Digitrax throttles are that way, but the arrows are underneath a loco icon so it's pretty obviuos what's what). Otherwise, when you take control of a locomotive how can you know which direction it's going to go? Sure, sometimes you can determine it through directional lighting, but not always.
Lastspikemike So it is pretty obvious what you need to do when consisting.
For it to be pretty obvious, you have to know which end of the loco is the front so you know whether or not to reverse it in the consist.
Yes, as I stated before:
CSX RobertThat's easy enough to fix by changing the normal direction of travel using CV29, but many people would prefer to correct the wiring.
wrench567 Has anybody done anything like this?
This and far more. Made the same mistake a couple of times. And dont ask about my remotoring of a Mantua loco - finally pulled it apart to replace the gear and never got anything right after that. Oops.
CSX Robert Lastspikemike I don't think my ESU Cab Control labels the direction arrows but I forget just at the moment. Even if there's not a label, surely there's a standard for forward and reverse, for example right forward and left reverse (some Digitrax throttles are that way, but the arrows are underneath a loco icon so it's pretty obviuos what's what). Otherwise, when you take control of a locomotive how can you know which direction it's going to go? Sure, sometimes you can determine it through directional lighting, but not always. Lastspikemike So it is pretty obvious what you need to do when consisting. For it to be pretty obvious, you have to know which end of the loco is the front so you know whether or not to reverse it in the consist. Lastspikemike Adding 1 to CV29 should fix that F and R issue though? Yes, as I stated before: CSX Robert
Lastspikemike I don't think my ESU Cab Control labels the direction arrows but I forget just at the moment.
Lastspikemike Adding 1 to CV29 should fix that F and R issue though?
CSX Robert
I like the way NCE designed their throttles. FWD means forward and REV means reverse, which makes it very clear when reading the LCD display. It's up to the operator to determine which end will be forward when initially programming a diesel locomotive.
Most of time the decoder default is correct. Only when programming my road switchers and geeps have I had to adjust CV29 to reverse their direction because that's how my prototype operated them - i.e. long hood forward.
I managed to do it with real ones once. I got one going in the opposite direction from two others when consisting them.
tstageI like the way NCE designed their throttles. FWD means forward and REV means reverse, which makes it very clear when reading the LCD display. It's up to the operator to determine which end will be forward when initially programming a diesel locomotive.
I have NCE and I like that, too.
It also was very easy to set up a consist with locomotives facing different directions. Clear and easy to do.
York1 John
York1 tstage I like the way NCE designed their throttles. FWD means forward and REV means reverse, which makes it very clear when reading the LCD display. It's up to the operator to determine which end will be forward when initially programming a diesel locomotive. I have NCE and I like that, too. It also was very easy to set up a consist with locomotives facing different directions. Clear and easy to do.
tstage I like the way NCE designed their throttles. FWD means forward and REV means reverse, which makes it very clear when reading the LCD display. It's up to the operator to determine which end will be forward when initially programming a diesel locomotive.
Setting up consists with Digitrax is clear and easy to do also, and to me an arrow pointing toward the front or rear of an engine is just as clear as FWD and REV.
CSX Robertto me an arrow pointing toward the front or rear of an engine is just as clear as FWD and REV
Okay, now that I understand the imagery better, Robert - yea, that would be intuitive and work well. I thought it was just an arrow pointing either left or right, which would be more ambiguous.
Lastspikemike DC and DCC are different ergonomically speaking. DC left and right are always the same except in reversing sections. In DC there is no long hood forward option unless the locomotive is actually wired "backwards". Locomotive direction isn't affected by which way round the locomotive is facing. For DCC the direction indicator on the throttle doesn't give you the same relative information. This becomes obvious if you run a DCC locomotive coded to run in "reverse" direction, which is an entirely arbitrary description just btw, on a DC powered track. I'm still not sure if all decoders retain the motor reverse polarity setting when running in DC mode but some do, maybe most. For example, if only one of your locomotives runs long hood forward I fail to see the advantage in matching the arrow or indeed the F on the throttle to the direction the locomotive will travel when you start it up or indeed the direction the locomotive may be facing. If you operate in DCC mode one day and DC the next day, for example, this point will become obvious quite rapidly.
DC and DCC are different ergonomically speaking. DC left and right are always the same except in reversing sections. In DC there is no long hood forward option unless the locomotive is actually wired "backwards". Locomotive direction isn't affected by which way round the locomotive is facing.
For DCC the direction indicator on the throttle doesn't give you the same relative information. This becomes obvious if you run a DCC locomotive coded to run in "reverse" direction, which is an entirely arbitrary description just btw, on a DC powered track. I'm still not sure if all decoders retain the motor reverse polarity setting when running in DC mode but some do, maybe most.
For example, if only one of your locomotives runs long hood forward I fail to see the advantage in matching the arrow or indeed the F on the throttle to the direction the locomotive will travel when you start it up or indeed the direction the locomotive may be facing. If you operate in DCC mode one day and DC the next day, for example, this point will become obvious quite rapidly.
Of course there's a long hood forward option in DC, you just turn the locomotive around. In DC, you don't have to worry about which end of the locomotive is the front, because you are controlling the physical direction it is moving. In DCC you do need to know which end is the front. Sure "forward" and "reverse", or "front " and "rear" are arbitrary on some locomotives, but you still need some way of distinguishing one end verses the other. It is true, the "front" doesn't necessarily have to match the "F", as long as you know which end is the front. You could have the short hood of all of your hood locomotives be the front, even if some of them normally run long hood forward, but you still need that relationship between the throttle and locomotive that tells you "when the throttle says "forward, or "right", or whatever, which direction is the locomotive going to move, unless you want to rely on trial and error.
CSX Robert wjstix IF you have a Lokprogrammer (or Decoder Pro), I'd think you could have just changed which light does what in programming without making any physical changes to the engine. It wouldn't have required function remapping. That's exactly what function remapping is.
wjstixIt depends on how they have it now, and how they want it. To me, function remapping is changing which function button does what, like moving the bell from F1 to F7.
I submit that 'function remapping' is properly reserved for decoder programming, while what Stix is describing should be called 'function button remapping' and is a user-interface concern.
Remapping has multiple meanings, some of which were used before internal combustion engines were controlled by computers.
The decoder has an internal map of "this" command does "this" function, changing that map is remapping.
I found this Q&A informative:
https://www.trains.com/trn/train-basics/ask-trains/why-long-hood-vs-short/
In part, it reads:
Q When diesels replaced steam locomotives, early cab units had snub noses with good front visibility for the engineer. When hood units appeared, some railroads set them up to run short hood forward and some chose long hood forward. What influenced the decision?
A First, it’s important to note on any diesel where the little “F” is painted. That end, of course, normally is the leading end, but its real purpose is to establish for the whole crew which way is “forward” and which is “reverse” when the conductor or designated ground crewmember gives hand or radio signals to the lead unit’s engineer to move the locomotive or train.
The first “hood unit” or road-switcher, the pre-World War II Alco RS1, was designed to run long-hood forward, as were most – but not all – later Alcos and Baldwins. EMD’s postwar GP7 usually was set up short-hood forward, but the set-up was a customer option.
In the GP7/GP9 era, many Eastern roads, plus the Great Northern, chose long-hood forward, but they were the minority. Some roads specified dual controls, enabling the engineer to run either way from the right side of the cab; commuter carriers such as the pictured Central Railroad of New Jersey were good examples.The lack of a wye or turning facility on a given route often required a solo engine without dual controls to run long hood first, engineer on the left. Regardless, the fireman had lookout duty, especially on his side.
A few railroads (Southern and Norfolk & Western stood out) chose dual controls but ran long-hood first by agreement with the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers and/or Brotherhood of Locomotive Firemen & Enginemen; the stated rationale was to provide protection for the engine crew in the event of a grade-crossing collision. (The Pennsylvania Railroad’s GG1 electrics were designed with cabs toward the center for the same reason.)
Alton Junction
Lastspikemike I don't see how changing one F button on a DCC throttle is any sort of remap of the device because there's no map to begin with.
As I already stated, there is a map.
LastspikemikeRemapping has only one denotation: making a new map i.e. of some geographical area. In English a word can develop as many connotations as society can tolerate. Eventually the denotation can change to the most popular and more recent connotation.
In English a word can develop as many connotations as society can tolerate.
Eventually the denotation can change to the most popular and more recent connotation.
You can argue semantics till the cows come home but it's a general understanding amongst the MRRing community that remapping a decoder changes the default for a particular function button so that it now does something different than its original default setting. You are not changing the entire map - just one of the routes to the new destination.
Soooo...change with the denotation that is clearly understood by DCC users at large - i.e. those who remap their decoders to suit their desires and needs.