Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

New to railroading Locked

13369 views
77 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    January 2021
  • From: Nampa, Idaho
  • 47 posts
Posted by UPSD40-2_3612 on Thursday, May 6, 2021 5:28 PM

the motor is on the truck, it is four wheel pickup, all in rear.

i am getting an offer for two full dcc bnsf locos that are paired up for 150$.

what i meant by inverted is a singular pin is flipped around the wrong way (which i flipped back)

Thanks, 

UP

  • Member since
    November 2013
  • 2,775 posts
Posted by snjroy on Thursday, May 6, 2021 4:09 PM

Inverted contacts to the motor would only make your loco run backwards, it would not impact performance per se.

So this is a "vintage" LL... With a motor sitting on the truck?  OK, so I have never converted one of those, so maybe someone else should answer. A number of things could be happening: dirty wheels - are they brass wheels? Do you have 8 wheel pickup? A four wheel pickup (two in front, two in back) is really not ideal. Wheels need to be absolutely clean. 

The motor could in fact be dead... or be pulling too many amps for your decoder. My bet is on option A. There are ways to rejuvenate these old motors - you might find something through searches on the Web.

Honestly, I would save up my money for a better loco. Since you are in contact with club members, maybe someone can donate a good ol' Athearn Blue Box engine for you to play with. But that would still require a bit of work to convert to DCC. It's not that hard, but it's a bit of work. Better yet, maybe a club member can sell you a DCC loco for cheap.

Simon

  • Member since
    January 2021
  • From: Nampa, Idaho
  • 47 posts
Posted by UPSD40-2_3612 on Thursday, May 6, 2021 11:59 AM

snjroy

Do you mean that your headlight is ON and that the loco is not moving? 

 

Bingo.

before i converted it, it dud run on dc, as i put power to the pickup wheels.

the loco is a vintage Life- Like that is front wheel drive with dummy pickups.

the decoder is responding (not that well) as i have motor, bell, light and operational. The horn is wonky, it does not immediatly but it does work. I pushed the loco down the tracks with no bumps in operation, so i think it's the motor.

again, i have not programmed it yet, so it is coded as 0003.

(although i have a suspicion as the person who installed my decoder put the connections to the motor backwards (the contacts are turned around))

Thanks, 

UP

  • Member since
    November 2013
  • 2,775 posts
Posted by snjroy on Thursday, May 6, 2021 9:59 AM

Hi there. I'm going to assume it's the loco, and not the layout, since you tried it at the club. I'm also going to assume that you cleaned your wheels as suggested earlier.

What do you mean by constant power - is power reaching your motor?  Do you mean that your headlight is ON and that the loco is not moving? Make sure your wheels are clean before going further.

So you openned the shell and did not see anything obvious. I'm guessing a club member looked at things visually and did not spot anything. I would do the following:

1) Reset the decoder, then try it.

2) Disconnect the decoder and check the motor on DC power

3) Reconnect everything and program the loco on the program track, see if the decoder is responding. If the decoder is NOT responding, then you probably have a dead decoder.

What type of loco are we dealing with?  It sounds old... 

Simon

  • Member since
    January 2021
  • From: Nampa, Idaho
  • 47 posts
Posted by UPSD40-2_3612 on Thursday, May 6, 2021 9:46 AM

Lastspikemike

Is your decoder properly set up to run on the club system?

Did you try a decoder reset to factory default and run it as address 3 to check that? 

If it runs at home then it should run anywhere but maybe you don't have a way to run it at home. Presumably you have at least a piece of powered flex track or your decoder install might have been tricky to complete.

 

no, i do not have a powerd track at home. the decoder was never programmed, it was just hooked up. Yes, it was properly hooked up to run on the club (the club and my track plans is digitrax)

i just put it on the rails (properly) and it didi not move

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, May 6, 2021 9:06 AM

UPSD40-2_3612

Also, when i tested my train out on the club layout, i had constant power but no motor spinning. Its not the motor wire connections, we checked those again and again.  

How are you testing the motor wire connections? If you are applying rail power directly to the two motor lead wires and the motor is not spinning, are the other ends of those two motor lead wires solidly connected to the motor itself? If so, there is a problem with the motor.

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    January 2021
  • From: Nampa, Idaho
  • 47 posts
Posted by UPSD40-2_3612 on Thursday, May 6, 2021 8:43 AM

Thank you all!

i think i might try out some lacquer thinner.

Also, when i tested my train out on the club layout, i had constant power but no motor spinning. Its not the motor wire connections, we checked those again and again. 

Anyone have any thoughts?

Thanks,

UP

any one have

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, May 5, 2021 3:54 PM

UPSD40-2_3612

Update!

i finally got my decoder installed. But when I got it on the track, the wheels were sooty.

so i tried cleaning it off with isopropyl alcohol, but it barely came off. It is front truck drive, with rear pickups, so, does anyone have a good cleaner?

I use denatured alcohol. I soak a small portion of white cotton cloth and place it on the rails and run the loco in place over that soaked small portion of white cotton cloth. Works like a charm - - every time.

Rich 

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • 1,950 posts
Posted by NVSRR on Tuesday, May 4, 2021 9:18 PM

Nail polish remover (acetone).  Should work since it is a strong solvent

 

shane

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

  • Member since
    November 2013
  • 2,775 posts
Posted by snjroy on Monday, May 3, 2021 6:45 PM

I like using a toothpick for these cases, removing the soot with the wheels spining, the loco on its back. 

Simon

  • Member since
    December 2015
  • From: Shenandoah Valley
  • 9,094 posts
Posted by BigDaddy on Monday, May 3, 2021 5:40 PM

Laquer thinner, but you don't want to get that on your skin or a brass brush in a Dremel.

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

  • Member since
    January 2021
  • From: Nampa, Idaho
  • 47 posts
Posted by UPSD40-2_3612 on Monday, May 3, 2021 2:33 PM

Update!

i finally got my decoder installed. But when I got it on the track, the wheels were sooty.

so i tried cleaning it off with isopropyl alcohol, but it barely came off. It is front truck drive, with rear pickups, so, does anyone have a good cleaner?

(it has little flanges to pickup from the wheel to the wires. Its an old Life-Like loco)

Thanks,

UP

  • Member since
    January 2021
  • From: Nampa, Idaho
  • 47 posts
Posted by UPSD40-2_3612 on Friday, April 23, 2021 1:19 PM

angelob6660

Union Pacific observation cars, It depends on timeline in the 1950s. The UP got rid of them in 1956/57 for easy mid train lounges without end of the line rotation.

They started a little over a year after purchasing new Astra Dome coaches for their City and Challenger passenger trains in 1954.

 

perfect! im modelling late 1955!

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 1,855 posts
Posted by angelob6660 on Friday, April 23, 2021 11:39 AM

Union Pacific observation cars, It depends on timeline in the 1950s. The UP got rid of them in 1956/57 for easy mid train lounges without end of the line rotation.

They started a little over a year after purchasing new Astra Dome coaches for their City and Challenger passenger trains in 1954.

Modeling the G.N.O. Railway, The Diamond Route.

Amtrak America, 1971-Present.

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
  • 18,255 posts
Posted by SeeYou190 on Friday, April 23, 2021 11:03 AM

UPSD40-2_3612
Yes i do have a large bedroom!

I have been there. My first HO scale STRATTON AND GILLETTE was about 2 by 8 and built above the dresser in my master bedroom. This worked very well, and I copied the plan for a switching layout from Model Railroader magazine.

When we moved to this house in 1999, I added 4 feet to the layout, but this did not add any operational fun, but more scenery.

Then I built a layout in a small bedroom. I changed the layout twice, but never had anything I really enjoyed. Everything was a compromise, and nothing was ever right.

That is my experience I can share. I hope you have success.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

  • Member since
    January 2021
  • From: Nampa, Idaho
  • 47 posts
Posted by UPSD40-2_3612 on Friday, April 23, 2021 10:25 AM

snjroy

Sounds like you have a large bedroom!  5X9 is definitely better for passenger trains. Keep in mind that it will be difficult to reach some items if you place your layout against a wall... 

 

yes i do have a large bedroom!

if anything, ill raise the rear of the layout so i can get to it easier.

Thanks, 

UP

  • Member since
    November 2013
  • 2,775 posts
Posted by snjroy on Friday, April 23, 2021 10:14 AM

Sounds like you have a large bedroom!  5X9 is definitely better for passenger trains. Keep in mind that it will be difficult to reach some items if you place your layout against a wall... 

The Zephyr is actually an excellent system that does allow for expansion. I've had mine for about 8 years, and it's quite robust and sufficient for my around-the-wall 11 X 7 layout. I can run three locos at the same time no problem with it.

Simon

  • Member since
    January 2021
  • From: Nampa, Idaho
  • 47 posts
Posted by UPSD40-2_3612 on Friday, April 23, 2021 9:53 AM

Well, ive took in all of you advice and thought about it so here is the list i made up for each of y'all.

I could fit in a 9x5, but the problem is, its im my bedroom, my family does not have space in the basement sadly, but ill look into it! (it may need a whole new planning, but i may be able to fit it in!)

I looked for IHC and rivarossi cars on ebay, most of them are not what im looking for. I'm still checking it out though, but i may take advice and look around for those types of cars!

I am open to used stuff, and thats how i got the f7 no. 1400 off ebay!

i looked for harriman ho scale, and there is a set for 154$ that is painted in union pacific glory.

So, yes i am getting a zepher, but sooner or later upgrade my layout (or next layout) to the full dcc for multiple trains

Thanks,

UP

Tags: DCC , layout , Passenger Cars , 8x4 , 9x5 , ebay , hi , zepher
  • Member since
    November 2006
  • From: NW Pa Snow-belt.
  • 2,216 posts
Posted by ricktrains4824 on Wednesday, April 21, 2021 2:58 PM

OP - The Zephyr system is very robust, and will well handle the 4X8 you are planning.

(My first DCC system was the original Zephyr syestem, way back when.)

Please note: The Zephyr does not require all decoders to be Digitrax. (You may already know that, but I didn't see anyone mention it.) So you can (when ready too) advance to the "higher end" decoders. (I still have a few locomotives with Digitrax decoders, even non-sound editions.) 

For the passenger cars, on a 4X8, you will want the shorter Harriman cars. (From experience, my last 4X10 with 22"R curves didn't like the full length passenger cars.) LHS used sections, eBay, etc... are all good areas to look for these. 

Ricky W.

HO scale Proto-freelancer.

My Railroad rules:

1: It's my railroad, my rules.

2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.

3: Any objections, consult above rules.

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
  • 18,255 posts
Posted by SeeYou190 on Tuesday, April 20, 2021 12:24 PM

snjroy
Kevin, I know that at least some IHC heavyweight passenger cars were in fact manufactured by Rivarossi. But did they offer some from other manufacturers?

I do not know. The only IHC passenger cars I own are undecorated smooth sides, and they do not have a Rivarossi  mark on them that I have seen. My Rivarossi heavyweights came in Rivarossi boxes.

snjroy
I would to for 60' cars for a 4X8, like older era Harriman and Pullman stuff, but I realize that this is not what the OP is looking for. 

Actually, the 60 foot harriman cars could be the best choice for the OP. They are available in UNION PACIFIC colors, and would look OK on a 4 by 8.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

  • Member since
    November 2013
  • 2,775 posts
Posted by snjroy on Tuesday, April 20, 2021 10:55 AM

Kevin, I know that at least some IHC heavyweight passenger cars were in fact manufactured by Rivarossi. But did they offer some from other manufacturers?

In all cases, I would go for 60' cars for a 4X8, like older era Harriman and Pullman stuff, but I realize that this is not what the OP is looking for. 

Simon

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
  • 18,255 posts
Posted by SeeYou190 on Monday, April 19, 2021 10:28 PM

UPSD40-2_3612
But i am planning on first making a 4x8 dcc layout of a fictonal 1950s era with industy and a small town off of a highway. im going to use the zepher from digitrax, and that'll be the basic, but ill learn the work it takes to build a full layout.

A Simon said, a 4 by 8 is a great way to get your feet wet, especially if you want just one train running at once.

It sound like you have everything going good here. Build a simple layout, learn a lot, and find out what you want from the next layout.

You should have a lot of fun... enjoy!

UPSD40-2_3612
Also anyone know where i can have the union pacific passenger cars (one obsevation, one diner, two coaches, two vista domes, and possibly a post office?)for cheap? if anything a obsevaton car and some coaches may be godd for now.

For cheap, and OK for runners, I would look for IHC cars on eBay. However, passenger cars look bad on 4 by 8 layouts. Maybe the shorter passenger cars made by Athearn would be a better choice.

Example of IHC passenger car:

-Kevin

Living the dream.

  • Member since
    November 2013
  • 2,775 posts
Posted by snjroy on Monday, April 19, 2021 1:45 PM

UPSD40-2_3612

Well, I have an update! Im sooner or later (probably when my grandpa moves to idaho) gonna build the nampa to ogden or salt lake city.

But i am planning on first making a 4x8 dcc layout of a fictonal 1950s era with industy and a small town off of a highway. im going to use the zepher from digitrax, and that'll be the basic, but ill learn the work it takes to build a full layout.

Anyways im just making sure this is logical to yall.

Also anyone know where i can have the union pacific passenger cars (one obsevation, one diner, two coaches, two vista domes, and possibly a post office?)for cheap? if anything a obsevaton car and some coaches may be godd for now.

Thanks!

UP

 

Many will say that the "4X8" is dead, but it's an easy way to get your feet wet.  As for your question about passenger cars, it depends. Are you looking for something new or used? I assume that you are open to used stuff. You could be patient and get something on Ebay. At the lower end of the cost spectrum, you will find Rivarossis on Ebay, which are quite decent. Are you near a LHS? It might be worth a visit. UP is a popular road, you might find something there and avoid delivery costs.

If you are getting into heavyweight passenger equipment, I would recommend a track plan that has 22" radius minimum. That's tight on a 4X8...

Simon

  • Member since
    January 2021
  • From: Nampa, Idaho
  • 47 posts
Posted by UPSD40-2_3612 on Monday, April 19, 2021 1:07 PM

Overmod

 

 
UPSD40-2_3612
also i took that advice and am going to get the SDXH166D decoder

 

Note that he's listening, to the right kind of expert here, in the right way, instead of his best accessible maven.  That shows he 'gets it' right.

 

 

thanks!

  • Member since
    January 2021
  • From: Nampa, Idaho
  • 47 posts
Posted by UPSD40-2_3612 on Monday, April 19, 2021 1:06 PM

Well, I have an update! Im sooner or later (probably when my grandpa moves to idaho) gonna build the nampa to ogden or salt lake city.

But i am planning on first making a 4x8 dcc layout of a fictonal 1950s era with industy and a small town off of a highway. im going to use the zepher from digitrax, and that'll be the basic, but ill learn the work it takes to build a full layout.

Anyways im just making sure this is logical to yall.

Also anyone know where i can have the union pacific passenger cars (one obsevation, one diner, two coaches, two vista domes, and possibly a post office?)for cheap? if anything a obsevaton car and some coaches may be godd for now.

Thanks!

UP

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 21,669 posts
Posted by Overmod on Thursday, February 18, 2021 11:39 AM

UPSD40-2_3612
also i took that advice and am going to get the SDXH166D decoder

Note that he's listening, to the right kind of expert here, in the right way, instead of his best accessible maven.  That shows he 'gets it' right.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: west coast
  • 7,667 posts
Posted by rrebell on Thursday, February 18, 2021 9:54 AM

First off dose it run well on DC? Yes Digitrax makes great cheap decoders with sound. If you want advanced sound you may want to look elsewhere but most modern decoders play well together. Each operating system has it good and not so good points.

  • Member since
    May 2010
  • From: SE. WI.
  • 8,253 posts
Posted by mbinsewi on Thursday, February 18, 2021 9:53 AM

Here's a link to the Proto Throttle:

https://www.iascaled.com/store/ProtoThrottle

Mike.

 

  • Member since
    January 2021
  • From: Nampa, Idaho
  • 47 posts
Posted by UPSD40-2_3612 on Thursday, February 18, 2021 9:43 AM

 Thank you for that info, but the club and railroad im modeling is digitrax and I just got some advice from anoher club member saying "that decoder is good for price and quality" and as i was turning over a simple and vintage bachmann f7 there are holes for the sound, so i just need a good sounding speaker.

is this correct, or just a guy that thinks he knows what he's doing

also where can i get a proto throttle? (if it can run digitrax) My club has a few 300$ engines that run and sound AMAZING

also i took that advice and am going to get the SDXH166D decoder

Thanks,

UP

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Friday, February 5, 2021 8:50 AM

 If you want a significant better sound for about $5 more, the SDXH series has 16 bit sound and more simultaneous sounds. There's an X version for most of the Digitrax sound decoders. While still not nearly as good as the top of the line ESU, SOundtraxx, and TCS decoders, most dealers sell the X series for little more than the non-X 8 bit ones.

 But if you want the best sound and motor control, or want to look into using things like the Proto Throttle to run trains, you'll need the higher tier sound decoders because you'll need features none of the low cost ones provide.

                             --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!