No, you do NOT need the TCS motherboard to install a WOW decoder into a locomotive. The motherboard does have the Keep Alive and resistors but you can always hard-wire the decoder and install your own resistors.
After experimenting with SMD LEDs and 10K resistors in some brass locomotive headlights, I may begin using higher value resistors in my current and future decoder installations.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Then it probably is like you said, you burned out the LEDs because the resistors were on the old lightboard. Most recent decoders do have a way to adjust the power output to the lights so you can adjust them low enough to use with LEDs, but apparently the default was for 12V bulbs I guess.
Re sound/light mode, my oldest Wow-sound decoder is I think from the first year they had it, which is at least several years ago now. I have three Bachmann steam engines I added Wowsound to in last couple of years. None of them default on start-up to be either in light mode or sound mode, you can only enter those by pressing F8 two or four times. If you're not in sound or light mode, there's no talking and the decoder works like any other sound decoder.
p.s. Not sure about light mode, but I just did a quick check on the layout with an engine and in sound mode it's F0 that shuts sound mode off and generates the "goodbye" from the voice. Then you're not in light or sound mode and the decoder should act like a normal sound decoder, with no further chatter.
wjstix Light mode and Sound mode are really just for programming the decoder using the audible options. Once the decoder is programmed and you're operating it, F0 turns the lights on and off, F1 rings the bell etc. You do have to be sure you've exited programming of course first. (Hear the voice say "good bye".) If you plugged a decoder into an eight-pin plug, and the engine moved and the sounds worked, but not the lights, it normally means you plugged the decoder in the wrong way around. Turning it 180 degrees and plugging it back in usually takes care of it. I'd try that before starting to replace parts etc.
Light mode and Sound mode are really just for programming the decoder using the audible options. Once the decoder is programmed and you're operating it, F0 turns the lights on and off, F1 rings the bell etc. You do have to be sure you've exited programming of course first. (Hear the voice say "good bye".)
If you plugged a decoder into an eight-pin plug, and the engine moved and the sounds worked, but not the lights, it normally means you plugged the decoder in the wrong way around. Turning it 180 degrees and plugging it back in usually takes care of it. I'd try that before starting to replace parts etc.
I tried reversing the plug before i had my troubles, when i first plugged in the decoder the loco ran backwards instead of forward so i reversed the decoder plug. Either way i had no lights, I appreciate the suggestion though.
I have a wow sound in a Bachmann K4 and i can operate lights and sounds without toggling between the light and sound modes, but i don't have that many functions in use.
Ed & Stix,
I just tried the WOW decoder in my Proto 2000 0-8-0 switcher and - sure enough - I can activate the headlight in either sound mode or light mode. Same goes for the WOW decoder in my Trix 2-8-2 Mike.
I don't recollect that being the case before - i.e. unless I'm getting it mixed up with trying to activate a sound function while in light mode, which I confirmed does NOT work. Did TCS change that feature with the newer WOW decoders? Maybe senility is sneaking up on me quicker than think...
gmpullman wjstix Light mode and Sound mode are really just for programming the decoder using the audible options. No, actually while operating you DO have to toggle between "Light Mode Active" and "Sound Mode Active". For me it kind of spoiled the realism every time the young female voice would announce "Sound Mode Active" right in the middle of my operating sessions. From TCS: In order to accommodate the vast array of lighting and sound options available with DCC, WOWSound decoders come with two distinct operational modes. These two modes are Sound mode and Light mode. DCC allows for the use of 28 buttons on a throttle. Other decoder manufacturers make use of these buttons for both sound and light functions. On a WOWSound decoder, TCS gives you access to all 28 buttons exclusively for sound functions in “sound mode.” In order to control your lights, WOWSound decoders also have a “Light mode,” allowing for up to 12 additional programmable light functions. When first powering up a WOWSound decoder, it will default to Sound Mode. In sound mode, you can use buttons 0-27 to control sound functions. In Light Mode, buttons 0-12 control additional lighting functions such as ditch lights, beacons, firebox flickers, cab lights, and more. You should refer to your decoder literature for the number of available light functions on your decoder. To toggle between Sound mode and Light mode, all you have to do is press button 8 twice in a row. Audio Assist will announce the active mode. In order to change back, just press button 8 twice again. Be careful not to press too fast, or the decoder may register 4 presses and enter the Audio Assist program. I did write to TCS and they gave me instructions on how to "silence" Miss Wow but I haven't bothered to do so just yet. Regards, Ed
wjstix Light mode and Sound mode are really just for programming the decoder using the audible options.
No, actually while operating you DO have to toggle between "Light Mode Active" and "Sound Mode Active".
For me it kind of spoiled the realism every time the young female voice would announce "Sound Mode Active" right in the middle of my operating sessions.
From TCS:
In order to accommodate the vast array of lighting and sound options available with DCC, WOWSound decoders come with two distinct operational modes. These two modes are Sound mode and Light mode. DCC allows for the use of 28 buttons on a throttle. Other decoder manufacturers make use of these buttons for both sound and light functions. On a WOWSound decoder, TCS gives you access to all 28 buttons exclusively for sound functions in “sound mode.” In order to control your lights, WOWSound decoders also have a “Light mode,” allowing for up to 12 additional programmable light functions.
When first powering up a WOWSound decoder, it will default to Sound Mode. In sound mode, you can use buttons 0-27 to control sound functions. In Light Mode, buttons 0-12 control additional lighting functions such as ditch lights, beacons, firebox flickers, cab lights, and more. You should refer to your decoder literature for the number of available light functions on your decoder.
To toggle between Sound mode and Light mode, all you have to do is press button 8 twice in a row. Audio Assist will announce the active mode. In order to change back, just press button 8 twice again. Be careful not to press too fast, or the decoder may register 4 presses and enter the Audio Assist program.
I did write to TCS and they gave me instructions on how to "silence" Miss Wow but I haven't bothered to do so just yet.
Regards, Ed
Not that I can see. I have several Wow-equipped engines with the 'talking' deal. I have to press 8 two times to enter light mode, or four times to enter sound mode. If I don't do that, and just dial up the engine on my DCC system, it works like any other sound equipped engine. F0 turns on the headlight, F1 the bell, F2 the whistle, etc. No talking ever has come out of the engine.
It may be that if you have an engine with ditch lights, headlights, numberboards, etc. that you've set up to have their own function button, that you have to do go into light mode to turn all of them on or off? Either that or it may be your engine is somehow stuck in programming mode? Once your done in light mode or sound mode, you hit a function button (F0 or F8, I don't recall right now) to turn it off and go back to 'normal'. When you do that, the voice says "goodbye" and is silent after that.
tstage Ed, Do the instructions silence it only in operation mode? Or, both operation AND programming mode? Tom
Ed,
Do the instructions silence it only in operation mode? Or, both operation AND programming mode?
I'll try to dig up the email reply later tonight, Tom. I don't want to speculate until I actually try the procedure. I have an A-B set of F7s with WOW Diesel decoders in them that need to get "re-synchronized" that I'll experiment with later tonight.
wjstixLight mode and Sound mode are really just for programming the decoder using the audible options.
Tom, yes I made sure the decoder was in light mode. Ed, I most likely will follow your installation, I was using an older wow sound decoder.
I used the WOWsound P2K replacement board (WSK-WAL-1) for one of my 0-8-0s and it was a very simple operation.
L-L_0-8-0b by Edmund, on Flickr
I didn't care for the sound of the supplied speaker so I substituted an ESU cube speaker.
L-L_0-8-0 by Edmund, on Flickr
The photo above shows the speaker just resting on the PC board before I stuck it in place using fugitive glue. The LED for the backup light is already mounted to the motherboard and I don't recall needing to add a resistor for the front headlight.
LL used DCC color wires to the drawbar connector so that was no problem to sort out. The motherboard also has keep alive caps pre-installed. Of course, the tender bed is a solid chunk of zinc alloy so the coal load was drilled with various sized small drills to let the sound out.
Because I had previously installed a DCC decoder in this locomotive I had already snipped the 8 pin socket off. The TCS board has marked solder pads which I used for connections to the drawbar and tender wiper pickups.
I'm quite pleased with the results.
Good Luck, Ed
Another question for the OP:
When the lights on your 0-8-0 switcher wouldn't illuminate, did you press "8" twice to change from sound mode to light mode?
With the WOW decoders you cannot activate (i.e. turn on or off) your lights using F0 if you are in sound mode. I regularly forget to do that and wonder why the headlights won't come on.
If the pictures are accurate, there's no resistor for that rear LED, they just use the voltage drop across the diodes, so any decoder you plug in needs to have resistors for LEDs (and then you cna swap out the front bulb for an LED, because the resistors for an LED will not light up the LED.).
Unless the resistor for the LED hides underneath it. If not, it probably flashed so quick you missed it, and blew out.
I'm guess that while holding the LED, you shorted the two wires, or shorted it to the track pickups.
There should be no need to mess with the motor of this loco.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
basementdwellerDecided maybe I had a bad LED so I removed the rear led, as it easiest, and while simply holding another led in place against the wires I done something wrong and fried the decoder, yep the smoke came out.
So, now you have neither lights nor an operating locomotive, yes?
After you replace your TCS WOW, you can always snip off the NMRA 8-pin socket and hardwire the replacemnt decoder following the color-code scheme. Just make sure you connect the LEDs to the proper soldering pads on the WOW decoder, according to the WOW manual that comes with the decoder. I would also recommend downloading the comprehensive TCS Steam decoder manual from the TCS website for reference.
Thank you for all the prompt replies. I now have several issues going on.
The loco in question is a Life Like Proto 2000 Heritage "steam collection".
The loco instructions states it has LED's and I have confirmed indeed it does. The decoder I installed was a TCS WOW sound, not the board type, but with an adaptor I could plug it into the 8 pin socket.
After installation I placed on programming track and read the address "03" then programmed to the loco number, all good so far. Placed on track and all works fine, moves, sound good etc, but no lights, hence my thinking about the resistors. Decided maybe I had a bad LED so I removed the rear led, as it easiest, and while simply holding another led in place against the wires I done something wrong and fried the decoder, yep the smoke came out.
so while I will replace the wow sound, for now I need to sort out just exactly what all is involved, my first mistake was seeing the 8 pin socket and assuming I was good to go. The idea of isolating this motor does not appeal. I will read through all these replies again, thanks everyone.
Ah, i think I get it. Thanks.
With the loco TOm mentioned, the P2k S1 switcher, since the motor is grounded to the frame, if a derailment cause a wheel on the power pickup side to touch the frame, you have connected the track power to the motor output of the decoder - that will fry any decoder.
It's a 'hot' frame but the opposite way - it's not a problem if the track pickups connect to the frame, ala Athearn, if the motor is isolated. So it's fine for brass locos as well, as long as the motor is isolated, the frame can be grounded to one rail all day, and the only thing that will happen if it derails just right is a short across the track. But the P2K S1, that one has the track isolated from the frame, but the frame connected to one side of the motor. When that derails, a wheel touching the frame puts power into the motor output of the decoder. POOF.
rrinker Well - I guess technically they are - the motor on the S1 may be grounded to the frame, but the track pickups are isolated from the frame. The problem only occurs if you derail the loco and a wheel is forced up into contact with the frame - then the decoder goes boom. Given that DCC Ready is really a meaningless marketing term - they are as DCC Ready as anything. You CAN simply plug a decoder in and it WILL work - just don't derail it! If you fix the motor wire, then a derailment shouldn't fry the decoder. --Randy
Well - I guess technically they are - the motor on the S1 may be grounded to the frame, but the track pickups are isolated from the frame. The problem only occurs if you derail the loco and a wheel is forced up into contact with the frame - then the decoder goes boom.
Given that DCC Ready is really a meaningless marketing term - they are as DCC Ready as anything. You CAN simply plug a decoder in and it WILL work - just don't derail it! If you fix the motor wire, then a derailment shouldn't fry the decoder.
The Life-Like Proto 2000 S1s were not DCC-ready - even though it came with an NMRA 8-pin socket. So you had to isolate the motor brushes from the frame before installing a decoder.
The Proto 0-8-0s, OTOH, are DCC-ready because the motor brushes are isolated; you just have to make sure you wire it properly for the lighting you are using with the decoder you are installing. That's not indicative of a non DCC-ready locomotive.
They are as DCC Ready as most anything making the claim. That's essentially the same board used in the Geeps. The bulbs are a problem, low voltage, so need a decoder designed for that, or else need to be replaced. Otherwise, the wires do go to the right place to use the 8 pin socket.
That 'light board' is removed when you install a decoder - the plug is the smaller piece with the wires. It can't be (electrically) left in with a decoder installed. That board needs to be in place for DC operation, it is the the constant lighting and directional lighting diodes. If a plain 9 pin decoder with an 8 pin harness were plugged in, the light bulbs blew out the instant they were first turned on. The TCS LL8 or the Digitrax DH163L0 (now DH165L0) would be drop in decoders using the existing lights. Both have the resistors.
I don;t have the steam loco, but I have a bunch of other P2K locos with that same arrangment. I always swap the bulbs for LEDs, and disconnect the wires from that 8 pin socket board and hard wire my decoders. They have a 9 pin plug on the decoder end if I should ever need to swap out the decoder.
What sound decoder did you install in your Proto 2000 0-8-0?
Both of my Like-Like Proto 0-8-0s came with incandescent headlights and I replaced them with yeloglo LEDs and resistors when I installed a motor-only decoders in them years ago. Later on I replaced one decoder with a TCS WowSteam sound decoder and left the resistors in place.
I also removed the lightboard when I installed the decoder. So the wiring for the 8-pin socket is sufficent to operate both LEDs and incandescents. If it is a Life-Like Proto then it should only have incandescent headlights. The one in the tender should be pretty obvious. And the one in the locomotive will be the same type.
My guess is that your programming didn't take. Did you try operating your locomotive on address "3" first? Or, did you just program the decoder to the road number?
I would try address "3" to confirm that the decoder is working. If it isn't then perform a factory reset for your particular sound decoder and try address "3" again.
Hi,
nice sound install example can be found here:
https://tcsdcc.com/installation/ho-scale/1522
Hrvoje
I picked up a Life LIke Proto Heritage 0-8-0 HO scale, with the intention of adding sound to it, has anyone added a decoder to this loco?
it has an 8 pin socket so I plugged in the decoder. After installation and programming I now have no lights, forward or reverse.
i suspect the factory LED's have their resistors on the DC light board which I of course removed. Now with no resistor in place I managed to burn on the LED's, could my thinking be right?
Even though it has an 8 pin plug I am suspecting the wiring for the lights is not sufficient and may not use the blue common.
Anyone who has installed a decoder in this loco I would appreciate your advice. I may try hardwiring this installation but tracing the wires through the drawbar connection concerns me some.
Thanks for any advice.