riogrande5761 ATLANTIC CENTRAL The unfortunate truth is most people in the hobby today have never seen or operated on a well designed DC system, yet they are all "experts" on what is "wrong" with DC. So if you have to see and operate on a well designed DC system, and so many haven't, there lies the problem. You have to and so many haven't. That tends to make them "experts" in a practical way - meaning they know what they don't know and maybe don't need to know. That isn't a bad thing necessarily. Prototype jobs: Engineers: control locomotives Conductors: control trains Dispatchers: control railroads - by controlling the tracks those other two people must use DCC does that first job the best, no question. DC can simulate that last job just as well as DCC..........usually for a lot less work and money. DC can simulate that last job just as well as DCC..........usually for a lot less work and money. Bingo, which is probably why DCC has gotten so popular. But again, I realize few people with model trains are really interested in prototype operation. That isn't necessarily a bad thing. There can be a point for some where getting "realistic" becomes "work" and not so much fun. Many are in the hobby for fun and relaxation and like to simulate train operations to some degree without it becoming too laborious or tedious. In otherwords, different strokes for different folks. It depends on what your poison is. But again, to new people I always say DCC is likely your best choice, especially if you like sound. Sheldon And old people too.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL The unfortunate truth is most people in the hobby today have never seen or operated on a well designed DC system, yet they are all "experts" on what is "wrong" with DC.
The unfortunate truth is most people in the hobby today have never seen or operated on a well designed DC system, yet they are all "experts" on what is "wrong" with DC.
So if you have to see and operate on a well designed DC system, and so many haven't, there lies the problem. You have to and so many haven't. That tends to make them "experts" in a practical way - meaning they know what they don't know and maybe don't need to know. That isn't a bad thing necessarily.
Prototype jobs: Engineers: control locomotives Conductors: control trains Dispatchers: control railroads - by controlling the tracks those other two people must use DCC does that first job the best, no question. DC can simulate that last job just as well as DCC..........usually for a lot less work and money. DC can simulate that last job just as well as DCC..........usually for a lot less work and money.
DC can simulate that last job just as well as DCC..........usually for a lot less work and money.
Bingo, which is probably why DCC has gotten so popular.
But again, I realize few people with model trains are really interested in prototype operation.
That isn't necessarily a bad thing. There can be a point for some where getting "realistic" becomes "work" and not so much fun. Many are in the hobby for fun and relaxation and like to simulate train operations to some degree without it becoming too laborious or tedious. In otherwords, different strokes for different folks. It depends on what your poison is.
But again, to new people I always say DCC is likely your best choice, especially if you like sound. Sheldon
And old people too.
I would not disagree with any of that.
As for the Engineer thing, sometimes I want to be the Engineer, other times I would rather be the dispatcher or a railfan. That's why my layouts always have dedicated display loops - don't need DCC for that or good CTC operation.
Since I don't care for squalky onboard sound, the $8,000 or so it would take to install DCC on my layout and decoders in 140 locos would only add a few features, and make some aspects of the current operating plan more complex.
Again, it really has a lot to do with your interests and goals.
Sheldon
Tom--
You do not even need to have PWM in order for constant lighting in DC now. As an example, my son has two of the latest run Kato C44-9W's. They have really nice LED lights that come on full brightness at very low voltage. The lighting is better than Kato lighting effects from just a couple years ago.
Ok, I'm using "block" operation with power routing turnouts BUT I did not have to wire the layout for blocks. The wiring was very simple. All I have is a few feeder wires, approximately one set of feeder wires every 40 linear feet of main track now. (One set of feeders was ruined by a track realignment and was not replaced.) As long as my track is clean, there are no issues whatsoever with voltage drop.
I keep the track clean with conductive lubricants.
For me, DCC would be a costly luxury that is just not necessary to enjoy playing with trains.
My son wants to run long freight trains - 45 cars and up. We are able to speed match locomotive consists reasonably well in plain DC. The old Stewart/Kato engines from 30 years ago run pretty darn well with new Katos, and they both run pretty darn well with Athearn Genesis units. (Athearn RTR engines do use a different, slower, gear ratio, and so they do present a challenge for DC loco consists. We just don't use them in power sets--have only one). I have not checked out the mathematical gear ratios, but was astounded at how well current Athearn Genesis units speed match in plain DC with Katos from thirty years ago.
So for everybody telling me that I must use DCC for multiple unit consisting, etc etc. I have proven that to be totally unnecessary. We are able to assemble 3 or 4 unit lashups in plain DC and things run fine.
To keep one (relatively short) train from rear ending another without using the sidings too often, I simply adjust train lengths as needed. It's really not that difficult, and as Sheldon noted, it saves me money for other things.
John
To follow up on John's comments about multiple unit consisting in DC, nearly every freight train I run NEEDS, three to four powered diesel units or two steamers. The combination of long trains, 45 to 60 cars typically, some longer, and 2% grades make it so.
Running multiple powered units on DC was not a problem before DCC, it's not a problem now.
Example, my Proto 2-8-8-2's run perfectly with my Spectrum 2-6-6-2's, and 2-10-2's.
In my case, most of my diesels are matched sets, but they too can be mixed and matched to a large degree, with no speed tables, CV adjustments, etc. Many of my diesels are older Proto2000 models and they all run great together.
And it's these things that make me laugh when people post complex steps to do all sorts of speed matchign in DCC - WHY? You didn;t have to do it with DC, well, you don't have to do it with DCC either. Just because you CAN... My most run set of locos were put together exactly like I would have done it if running on DC - put the three locos on the track, and couple them up. I didn't even adjust so much as CV2 for start voltage, they all have good motor control decoders and work together without any effort in setting them up.
What yooou CAN do with DCC, but not with DC, is set up operating characteristics for each class or type of loco you have. For example, Alco and GE units with 4 stroke prime movers tend to load slower than EMDs with 2 stroke prime movers. So you can set them up that way, so that no matter how you advance the throttle, slowly or crank it wide open, the locos will move based on the settings in the decoder. Works really good with soudn added. Sure, you can train yourself to turn the throttle knob differently for each loco and simulate the same thing, DC or DCC, but by fixing the operating characteristics in the loco, you get similar performance no matter who is at the throttle - although there still we be a difference between those who crack the throttle slowly and those who yank it to the highest notch possible. More of that "being the engineer" thing, I guess.
That's a high level example - but then you also have the differences between switchers, drag freight engines, mainline passenger locos, and commuter engines. You can further refine the operating characteristics based on the service the prototyle loco was made for. Fast accelerating for getting commuter trains moving from frequent stops, slow but powerful for those long drag freights, somewhere int he middle leaning towards the drag freight for mainline freight service, or leaning towards the commuter loco for mainline passenger service.
Now if we could scale the adhesion - it would be up to the operator playing power director/hostler to assign the correct locos to each train or the road crew will have problems....
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinker And it's these things that make me laugh when people post complex steps to do all sorts of speed matchign in DCC - WHY? You didn;t have to do it with DC, well, you don't have to do it with DCC either. Just because you CAN... My most run set of locos were put together exactly like I would have done it if running on DC - put the three locos on the track, and couple them up.
I've said many times in here that I have locos that run great together, all on address 03. That's how I "consist", when needed, or when I just want to.
I don't need to mess with any CV's.
Mike.
My You Tube
DCC sends a signal through the track that is specific to a particular locomotive when programmed. Each DCC loco has a decoder in it that reads its particular signal based upon how that signal and the decoder are addressed (usually the road number of the loco). The address of each decoder is programmed, and the signal is sent to each loco when that address is selected on the command station or throttle. The decoder then picks up its signal and executes the commands you gave it, like speed up or slow down.
A DC loco runs directly off of the current sent through the tracks. Any loco that picks up the current will move as the current dictates. In order to get independent movement of the locos, you need to block the track into sections so that each loco picks up only the volume of current you want it to.
- Douglas
mbinsewi rrinker And it's these things that make me laugh when people post complex steps to do all sorts of speed matchign in DCC - WHY? You didn;t have to do it with DC, well, you don't have to do it with DCC either. Just because you CAN... My most run set of locos were put together exactly like I would have done it if running on DC - put the three locos on the track, and couple them up. I've said many times in here that I have locos that run great together, all on address 03. That's how I "consist", when needed, or when I just want to. I don't need to mess with any CV's. Mike.
In a slightly different twist, my shortline only has 3 locos on the layout at any one time, but I only run one loco at a time. The other two are parked. I'll probably build my new layout the same as my previous layout and have dedicated kill switches for the parking tracks. The only time those tracks need power is when the specific loco moves. I simply find it easier to install simple on/off switches and use them to power the tracks rather than punch in unique addresses into the command station to select different locos. Consequently, all of my locos also have the address 3.
It's possible someone might own a number of engines that all run at the same speed on DC right out of the box, but it wouldn't be common. When I was in DC I found Atlas engines tended to run together well, but engines from other manufacturers would be faster or slower than the Atlas ones, or sometimes different from similar engines from the same manufacturer. You can add resistors to faster engines to slow them down, but in the long run it's really a lot easier just to plug in a DCC decoder and adjust a couple of CVs so all engines begin, run, and stop the same.
wjstix It's possible someone might own a number of engines that all run at the same speed on DC right out of the box, but it wouldn't be common. When I was in DC I found Atlas engines tended to run together well, but engines from other manufacturers would be faster or slower than the Atlas ones, or sometimes different from similar engines from the same manufacturer. You can add resistors to faster engines to slow them down, but in the long run it's really a lot easier just to plug in a DCC decoder and adjust a couple of CVs so all engines begin, run, and stop the same.
I agree with the spirit of this comment. I think its generally much more difficult to speed match (I've tried occasionally) with different manufacturers. Also complicating that is the fact that manufacturers change running gear and motors over several vintages. An Athearn Genesis runs differently than a Blue Box.
And that issue also applies to DCC. A QSI Atlas will run much differently than a Tsunami Athearn, and not just staring speed but also throughout the speed band. It takes quite a bit of work to get them to match well.
All of my DCC/Sound Atlas QSIs run the same...exactly. I can consist an SD35 with an MP15, a GEU23B, and an ALCO C420 (interesting consist), and they all start and accelerate perfectly the same right out of the box. OTOH, the LokSound U18B needs EXTENSIVE programming to run the same. It can be done, but its easier to just use a different locomotive in the consist.
So I agree with your comment. I would say the easiest way to consist locos is to stick to the same manufacturer within each consist.....and even the same decoder.
A few more thoughts about DC consisting.
More important than speed matching is starting voltage. If two locos start moving at the same throttle setting, and you really have a load that requires that much power, it is not so important for them to run the same speed when running light, the load will match their speed unless the difference is dramatic.
Agreed some locos just to not play well with other locos - BUT, in many cases those are combinations that make no sense in real life anyway.
I have never added resistors or modified wiring specificly to speed match my DC locos.
I have modified wiring to install better or similar constant lighting circuits in some locos.
The biggest irony of all is that DC locos from the last 20 years are more likely to play well together across brands than older "pre DCC era" locos.
For me, I admit, most of my diesel lashups are the same brand/type - I model the early 50's, diesels where still largely run in matched sets considered a "single locomotive".
And a large percentage of my diesel fleet is the same brand, with the same drive, so they all run well together.
BUT, I do successfully mix brands of both steam and diesel in a lot of cases.
I cannot speak to models of more modern locos, I cannot comment on Atlas locos, I don't own any. The newest prototype locomotives I own are a pair EMD SD9's, fresh from LaGrange.
None of my locos have dual mode decoders, I don't use any kind of sound systems.
But nearly all my trains are pulled by more than one powered unit, and they all work fine.
drcookWhat is the difference between DC and DCC?
.
I think this will become my standard answer as an old school DC user:
Do you have a collection of DC locomotives already?
Are you comfortable with DC installation and troubleshooting?
Do you prefere not having sound from your locomotives?
Do you operate your railroad alone?
If you do not answer "YES" to EVERY question above, you should just start out with DCC.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
DCC- Each loco has a brain of its own.
DC- All loco's share a brain.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
BATMAN DCC- Each loco has a brain of its own. DC- All loco's share a brain.
Agreed, and when I couple up an ABBA consist, I don't want to have to tell two of the brains to run in reverse........
I don't want a wireless controller with 30 buttons I can't get my fingers on......or screens and buttons I have to "toggle thru" to perform tasks.
I don't want to push five or six buttons to "take control" of those brains......
I don't want little "brains" talking to me.......(the sound is turned down on my computer and tablet too)
DCC is great, if I was modeling to a different set of goals, I may well be all in. But for my set of goals the cost of DCC is exponentially past the point of deminished return.
So my point remains, DCC is great, and may be the best choice for most people. BUT, you may want to define your goals and consider other options before you are all in - DC or DCC.
ATLANTIC CENTRALI don't want a wireless controller with 30 buttons I can't get my fingers on......or screens and buttons I have to "toggle thru" to perform tasks. I don't want to push five or six buttons to "take control" of those brains......
my guitar teacher discussed music theory. But he said when you play, you don't think about theory.
Those many buttons are for configuring, not operating.
user friendly isn't powerful
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
The advantage I find with DCC ( & I was a avid user of DC) is that my main station can have 4 trains on the move in the station limits far easier with DCC than DC as the need for connecting controllers to blocks has vanished.
We know you prefer DC, Sheldon. But some of your criticisms of DCC are seriously out-of-date (like years). Since newcomers may not realize that, here is my once-yearly restatement of facts.
ATLANTIC CENTRALAgreed, and when I couple up an ABBA consist, I don't want to have to tell two of the brains to run in reverse........
I don't either, that's why I like the easy way NCE DCC handles consists (others, too). Just select the loco on either end and off you go.
ATLANTIC CENTRALI don't want a wireless controller with 30 buttons I can't get my fingers on......or screens and buttons I have to "toggle thru" to perform tasks.
I don't, either. No need to do that at all with NCE and others. After one-time set-up (significantly less than working out the logic diagram for a bunch of relays) select a loco, turn knob.
ATLANTIC CENTRALI don't want to push five or six buttons to "take control" of those brains......
You need to actuate many more controls to power-up a route to run a train across the layout on your system. With DCC, select the loco once, turn knob, run train everywhere on the layout until you're done. And with typical cab-contol DC toggles, lots more controls.
DC is fine. DCC is fine. IMHO, it's better if we keep things factual for the newcomers.
Byron
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
cuyama We know you prefer DC, Sheldon. But some of your criticisms of DCC are seriously out-of-date (like years). Since newcomers may not realize that, here is my once-yearly restatement of facts. ATLANTIC CENTRAL Agreed, and when I couple up an ABBA consist, I don't want to have to tell two of the brains to run in reverse........ I don't either, that's why I like the easy way NCE DCC handles consists (others, too). Just select the loco on either end and off you go. ATLANTIC CENTRAL I don't want a wireless controller with 30 buttons I can't get my fingers on......or screens and buttons I have to "toggle thru" to perform tasks. I don't, either. No need to do that at all with NCE and others. After one-time set-up (significantly less than working out the logic diagram for a bunch of relays) select a loco, turn knob. ATLANTIC CENTRAL I don't want to push five or six buttons to "take control" of those brains...... You need to actuate many more controls to power-up a route to run a train across the layout on your system. With DCC, select the loco once, turn knob, run train everywhere on the layout until you're done. And with typical cab-contol DC toggles, lots more controls. DC is fine. DCC is fine. IMHO, it's better if we keep things factual for the newcomers. Byron
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Agreed, and when I couple up an ABBA consist, I don't want to have to tell two of the brains to run in reverse........
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I don't want a wireless controller with 30 buttons I can't get my fingers on......or screens and buttons I have to "toggle thru" to perform tasks.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I don't want to push five or six buttons to "take control" of those brains......
Byron,
Admittedly most of my somewhat extensive experiance with DCC is with Digitrax, and is now a few years old since I have changed some of my social habits in the hobby.
My biggest complaint with DCC has always been the user interface, just looking at the NCE handheld, and I'm not feeling warm and fuzzy, big clunky, yet with a display that requires my glasses. My Train Engineer throttles and my control panels do not require my glasses........
My Advanced Cab Control intergrates turnout control, CTC and signaling into one system with the block controls. Signaling and turnout controls are no simpler with DCC, and no less expensive.
If I have a dispatcher on duty, all my engineers do is run their train......speed and direction.....just like DCC.
With no dispatcher, they press two buttons at each interlocking tower panel to make their way around the layout. So if I had DCC they would still have to push one button at each interlocking panel to select the route? OR, a list of buttons to select a route via the DCC throttle.......
I have said repeatedly that if my goals were different I could well be interested in DCC.
But I don't like tinny onboard sound, I don't need speed matching or consisting, I model an era before ditch lights.
I want CTC and signals, I want to model bigtime railroading from the broad view, not zero in on being the engineer of one train.
I like display running as much as an operating session, and I want a layout that runs with a crew for opps or as a lone wolf display.
DCC would do little to improve the capabilities or features of my operation at the considerable expense of decoders for 140 locos and eight throttles. 140 locos that are needed for the 30 plus 50 car trains the layout can stage.
Again it gets back to goals.
A few thoughts about the relays.
I could do all my "logic" with processors - but I would still need to switch the eight 4 amp power supplies with relays.......
The relays handle the cab assignments (many automaticly with "X sections") as well as turnout/route logic and interlocking signal logic.
The relays allow cab assignments and turnout controls to be duplicated anywhere they are needed, typically on the dispatchers panel and at each tower panel.
Again, DCC does not in and of itself automaticly address turnout controls or CTC/signaling, so comparing what I do to the locomotive control portion of DCC is not fair, by any measure.
Many people are happy with basic DCC locomotive control and flipping PECO turnouts with their fingers or screwdrivers - good for them - that's not my goal.
You are welcome to correct my outdated info about DCC, and I will continue to correct mis information about DC.
gregc ATLANTIC CENTRAL I don't want a wireless controller with 30 buttons I can't get my fingers on......or screens and buttons I have to "toggle thru" to perform tasks. I don't want to push five or six buttons to "take control" of those brains...... my guitar teacher discussed music theory. But he said when you play, you don't think about theory. Those many buttons are for configuring, not operating. user friendly isn't powerful
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I don't want a wireless controller with 30 buttons I can't get my fingers on......or screens and buttons I have to "toggle thru" to perform tasks. I don't want to push five or six buttons to "take control" of those brains......
And again, I can't see the display or the silly icons on a Digitrax throttle without my glasses and I can't get my fingers on the closely spaced buttons.
"user friendly isn't powerful" - ? If that is to imply that DCC is a "powerful", full featured tool, and thereby must be complicated in some ways, I say "so what?", as I have repeated explained, most of those "powerful" features are of no use to me.
I think we have left this poor newcomer's original question far behind in the rear view mirror of this discussion.
I think he was looking for a simple response.
I would suggest he go to the getting started pages on the Model Railroader site.
wjstixIt's possible someone might own a number of engines that all run at the same speed on DC right out of the box, but it wouldn't be common....
Well, if you're just running multiple locomotives together for show, similar speeds might help, but as Sheldon has mentioned, starting voltage is perhaps equally or even more important.When I ran this re-motored brass Mogul with the IHC Mogul behind it...
...the 34 moved as soon as the throttle knob moved, and it simply towed the 37 and the trailing train (usually not all that long) until the motor in the second loco was getting enough juice to begin turning. At normal track speed, about 25/30mph (HO), they ran perfectly well together. I later remotored the 37, and now they start in unison.
I have four of these Athearn Genesis Mikados in-service...
....and they all run well whether coupled together, or split-up, with some on the front of a train, at mid-train, and/or as pushers.I also have five of these Bachmann Consolidations in-service...
...and they run, as decribed above, equally well.
At the same time, I also had four of these re-motored Athearn switchers...
...and have four of these old Model Power FA-2s...
I can select any combinations from these locos, whether two, four, seven, whatever, and put them on a train, or dispersed throughout a train, and they will run, in harmony. I couldn't tell you if they would all run at the same speed if spaced-out on the same track, because that information is of no use to me. What is of use is that when a train requires multiple locomotives to move it, I am not limited in my choices. I can pick any combination of locomotives, and put them in the train wherever I wish.And, had there been any great disparities in their speeds, putting them together on a train that needed multiple locomotives just to get up the grades would have evened-out their performance quite nicely.
Because there are so many grades on my layout, I did tests in order to assign tonnage ratings to each class of locomotives. This allows me to ensure that trains leaving the staging yards will usually have enough power to get to their destination.
I think that the speed-matching and starting current adjustments afforded by DCC would be especially useful for those folks who have older locomotives which may vary greatly in speed or in the current needed to get them moving, but from what I've seen, most use fairly recent motive power. If a train has extra locos, but doesn't really need them to move it, speed differences may cause problems.
One of the main reasons I've stayed with DC operation is its simplicity for wiring: basically two wires to supply the power to the tracks, and add a little more wire and a toggle switch if you have a place where you need to occasionally shut down a section of track. Operating alone allows me to run the trains I want, in whatever sequence suits me best, and at whatever pace I choose.If the train makes it only to the first town along the line in an operating session, well, perhaps it will get to the next town on the next session....or perhaps another train will start from the same place as the first one did, but pass it and go on to the next stop.
Oh, and the reason that sound isn't all that appealing to me is twofold: the sound of model steam locomotives is not, to my ears, all that similar to the real ones. I am, however, quite impressed by the diesel sounds available - not all that useful on my '30s-era layout though.The other reason is that I spent almost four decades in a steel mill - I have had enough sound to last several lifetimes.
Wayne
SeeYou190 drcook What is the difference between DC and DCC?. I think we have left this poor newcomer's original question far behind in the rear view mirror of this discussion.. I think he was looking for a simple response.
drcook What is the difference between DC and DCC?.
I think we have left this poor newcomer's original question far behind in the rear view mirror of this discussion..
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrainbut he was never heard from again.
Possibly that was his way of managing.
I think I've seen this drive by movie before, except the thread title was so vague, we skipped the usual DC-DCC fist fights.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
BigDaddy I think I've seen this drive by movie before, except the thread title was so vague, we skipped the usual DC-DCC fist fights.
Henry,
Everyone is very well behaved these days, you should have seen some of these conversations 10 years ago......
Like many on here, I have been at this hobby a long time. And I have worked in this hobby.
I seriously considered converting to DCC on three different occasions. What held me back? After using DCC on the large and medium sized layouts of several friends, I found I disliked the following:
Poor ergonomics of most of the controllers - specific complaints - buttons too small and too close together, endless spinning encoder wheel controls, small, hard to read displays, multi button sequences to perform tasks.
OR, from other brands, very large controller that only fixes half of the issues listed above......
Another killer for me was the understanding that because of my desire for detection, signaling and CTC, layout wiring was not going to be reduced, just changed a bit.
Cost - my layout goals and concept have been unchanged for over 25 years. My new layout being planned now will retain that same concept as the previous one. The advent of DCC did nothing to change how I want model, or operate my model railroad.
And as noted repeatedly - I have tried DCC, I don't need to be told "try it you'll love it, and never go back".
So when I look at my goals:
30 staged trains, typically 35-50 cars requiring between two and four powered units each.
Detection, signaling and CTC on a 300' double track mainline, with eight to ten wireless throttles.
Virtually all industries away from the mainline and serviced by a seperate belt line only tied to the main at the primary freight yard.
And, control of mainline turnouts at the CTC panel and at local tower panels.
It became clear that the cost of the necessary DCC equipment would be both a major investment and a major list of additional tasks, and would only add a few minor features and benefits.
And keep in mind, DCC was much more expensive "per component" 15 or 20 years ago when I first considered it.
Sound - many people like it, I'm happy for them.
I bought one sound equiped loco to check it out, I listened to hundreds on other peoples layouts........mostly it gives me a headache.
And I agree and understand that for most people DCC is the best choice.
But I still don't think one size fits all goals, so I will speak up and correct misconceptions about DC, like were posted here regarding voltage, headlight features, consisting, "toggle flipping" and more.
And Byron was right to point out that I was behind the curve on a few DCC issues...
But again, I can walk around my layout with a radio throttle that only requires 5 buttons to control the train, and only push two buttons at each interlocking tower to operate my train.
How is that measurably different than walking around with a DCC wireless throttle and pushing a turnout button or two, or worse five buttons to set a route from a Digitrax throttle?
In fact it's not really any different, I just got there a different way. And got signals and CTC in the deal for less cost.
Ultimately, the use of DC or DCC comes down to choices.
Some people hate MTH for their development of their own proprietary DCS system, which is similar (but not the same as) DCC, however, seems to be intended for those of us who prefer "more simplistic" operation of sound equipped engines, smoke, etc. (of course as long as they are MTH engines!).
I have certainly been exposed to DCC on various layouts, but I have to say the MTH system and controller is imo the best I've ever used. I like their very simple speed dial that allows you to control speed in essentially 1 mph increments by just flicking the dial. I liked what was offered in DCS, and their stuff actually does work and do what they say it will do.
Other people don't like the MTH talking crew sounds built into the system, and apparently many people just plain hate MTH for their attempts to bring "tinplate train" features from O "scale" to HO, or for not otherwise doing things "the HO way" (and of course the long running legal battles with certain other manufacturers where no party is truly innocent).
I reject the notion that things have to be somehow "more complex" to be better. I find the simplicity of both plain DC and even DCS more worthwhile for me personally.
Also, I have a son, now almost 13, who has his own YouTube channel, and he will likely want all the features of DCC, so we did pre-order two of the Athearn Genesis 2.0 Union Pacific SD90MAC-H engines, fully featured, because in a year or so he may want to go that direction...At that time we will have to re-evaluate if it is worthwhile to switch to DCC.
I do not look forward to trying to convert a couple Overland Models brass diesels over to DCC operation, and would probably need to setup the layout to toggle between DC and DCC operation.
Currently it has just worked out that almost all our diesels recently acquired happen to be plain DC. Sometimes that is what was available, period. However, everything is DCC "ready" except a couple brass locos.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Poor ergonomics of most of the controllers - specific complaints - buttons too small and too close together, endless spinning encoder wheel controls, small, hard to read displays, multi button sequences to perform tasks. OR, from other brands, very large controller that only fixes half of the issues listed above......
This illustrates one of my basic complaints about the state of the hobby today. Not addressing DC vs DCC or addressing mobile decoders vs stationary decoders or addressing sound vs no sound; but addressing the current state of hardware, specifically electronic hardware, for layout control.
I use a Digitrax wireless duplex radio system, but I think the other DCC systems have similar issues. They are all using 1980s and 1990s technology. My laptop, which cost about the same as my Digitrax Evolution, has literally ten thousand times the computing power compared to what Digitrax puts in that little clunky NEMA box, and even my wrist watch has more computing power and has a much higher resolution display than that DCC dot matrix display. I won't get into the little mini-marshmallow push buttons.
C'mon DCC manufacturers . . . step up your game.
Robert
LINK to SNSR Blog
ROBERT PETRICKC'mon DCC manufacturers . . . step up your game.
I like this one.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
carl425 ROBERT PETRICK C'mon DCC manufacturers . . . step up your game. I like this one.
ROBERT PETRICK C'mon DCC manufacturers . . . step up your game.
And so how do I tell apart my 8 ATLANTIC CENTRAL GP7's looking at little pictures........and how long does it take to scroll thru 140 locos?
I can hardly use the much bigger touch screen on my Samsung Tablet, I doubt this would work for me.
But, I admit, I have no motivation to change.