Here's a link about clipping the capacitors mentioned earlier - I couldn't find one specifically about the 4-4-0, but I think the boards are all pretty much the same.
http://tcsdcc.com/installation/ho-scale/bachmann-spectrum-usra-light-2-10-2/t1p-sh
Re CV29 default, it appears that if your engine is an older one with a Soundtraxx SoundValue decoder, default is 06. If it's a newer one with the Soundtraxx Economi, the default value is 02. Either way, Soundtraxx website has a big chart showing what each entry into CV29 does for each of the decoders.
BTW if you do open up the tender, you could try unplugging the sound decoder and temporarily plug in a different decoder, and see how that responds.
Plus, I'd still be interested to know (since it apparently worked OK before you changed the ID from 03 to 106) if ID 106 is the only problem. I'd try changing the ID to 100 or 99 or something and see if it works right then. If only ID 106 is affected, then there's something going on like ID 106 is part of an old consist or something.
Randy,
Actually the loco runs noticably smoother at 128 than at 28, but it won't stop when the throttle is reduced to "0" in forward; it just keeps rolling along at speed "1" until the emergency stop (red) button is pushed. It has normal stopping behavior in reverse. Setting the speed steps to 28 (or 14) eliminates the problem, but reduces the smoothness of speed changes as you mentioned. I've adjusted the momentum CVs which helps a little, but I'd still like to get this sorted out so I can go back to running this loco at 128 speed steps.
Thanks,
akriggm
Even more strange that is is worse with 128 - I've NEVER seen anything run smoother with 28 than it does with 128, simply because with 128, each step is a smaller percentage of the range, so each increment is that much finer. There is in general no other decoder change for 28 or 128 steps, it's just a different packet format sent by the command station.
It's possible there is still some CV set in an odd way, especailly since the decoder does not appear to be properly resetting other common CVs to default values properly.
One thing that always improves a Bachmann loco with DCC (and some kinds of DC controls even) is to remove the completely unecessary capacitors they put on the motor terminals. Sometime these are right on the motr itself - in which case it is absolutely safe to just cut them off. Other times they are on the circuit board (not the decoder, the lighting board it connects to) in which case you need to carefully make sure you are removing the right thing. They interfere with the motor drive signal from the decoder and can cause jerky operation.
There are some other motor Fine tunings you can do in the decoder, the SoundValue versions are limited compared to a full Tsunami but there are some settings, if the only issue now is jerky motion. But also make sure there is no mechanical issue, because no amount of decoder fiddling will correct an out of quarter driver or other bind int he mechanism.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Ok, leave cv29 at 2, set speed step to 28 setting not 128. set cv's 2-5 & 6 as before, and set cv's 3 & 4 to a value of 30 each see what that does, then try 40 each and see. I don't use cv 3 and 4 so just going by what others have tried. Are you using the program track, right, does the loco sound come on while programming these cv's or reading them?
bandmjim,
As stated above, I am unable to read the CV 29 value (the throttle display shows a blinking "29" as the data reading). I changed CV 29 to "2" and the loco operates the same way it did with the previous default CV 29 value ("6" after I reset the decoder to factory defaults) w/the stopping issue when running @ 128 speed steps. I also adjusted the Acc & Dec CV values, but it still starts & stops jerkier than I would like. This is something of a puzzle and so far I'm missing still a piece......
Ok, just looked at the manual again. MRC short addy is 1-127, a long addy is 128-9999. CV29 on or after reset is default to 2 for short addy, 34 for long addy, this disables DC operation which you should do/use, 6 enables DC operation, not recommended in most cases, can cause some strange things. I would reset the decoder, most likely a SoundValue decoder, try to read just CV29 to confirm that it is 2, don't mess with speed steps (14-28-128). See how it runs, if it runs. Then you can program CVs 5 and 6 (try 5=150 and 6=50 ) see how it acts, then you can mess with CV4 if needed , I checked Soundtraxx manual and a 2 in CV29 is the same as above, I believe most modern decoders are 28 speed steps and most systems are also, most say 28/128, unknown about MRC but just select 28 if you have a choice. and again play with cv 5 & 6 to get the speed you like and then try cv 4 if necessary, some like it some don't Deceleration rate, your choice. Sorry for being long winded.
Keep in mind that changing the number of speed steps that your DCC system uses doesn't change the speed step settings in the engine's decoder. Unless you have Decoder Pro on your computer, the only way to tell the speed step settings of the decoder is to check the value of CV 29 and compare it to the decoder manufacturer's chart for CV 29 settings for that decoder.
Generally, the CV29 option is to set the decoder for 14 steps or "28/128" steps. There isn't a way to set it to just 28 or 128.
Re start/stop, try setting CVs 3 and 4 to say 15, that will add some momentum. A higher number will add more momentum.
If you happen to know someone with a DCC layout, it wouldn't hurt to try the engine on their layout and see if it works there. If so, it must be some sort of problem between your DCC system and that particular decoder.
p.s. I'd also experiment with different ID numbers, since you said the engine worked fine on ID 03. Be interesting to see if it works OK and ID 10 or 06, maybe try 99 and 100 and see if there's a difference between two and three digit IDs.
Stix,
I just reprogrammed CV 29 to "6" and the problem still occurs w/128 speed steps. I have the loco set to 28 speed steps now and it operates normally (stops w/throttle control) although the starting & stopping is more abrupt than I prefer. Is there any way to determine what the speed step setting is in the decoder or is that strictly a function of the DCC control station/throttle?
Thanks again,
The decoder can use 14 steps, or 28/128 steps - depending on what value you have in CV29. For a "Sound Value" Soundtraxx decoder, the default for CV 29 is 6. (See link) I would try programming that, and then see what happens. I still think it's possible that decoder for some reason is set to 14 steps, so it won't play nice with your DCC system when it tries to run the engine using 128 steps.
https://www.soundtraxx.com/factory/images/bachmann/pdf/ho_modern4-4-0.pdf
Is 106 a long address or a short one in this system?
Joe
Stix, Sorry for the omission in my original post. It is a factory installed Soundtraxx Tsunami decoder per the documentation that came with the loco (Bachmann Spectrum Baldwin 4-4-0, P/N 80129), so I assume that it is compatible with 128 speed steps (at east it used to be). Thanks, akriggm
This sounds like a case where DecoderPro is needed, to find out what exactly is programmed onto the decoder.
I noticed in the MRC DCC system manual it says that when setting an address, the system automatically changes CV 29 - so I assume if you program a long address, it automatically changes CV29 to allow the long address. Since the engine runs fine on address 03, I wonder if when the ID number is changed to 106 the system is changing CV 29 to a number that only allows 14 steps?
BTW, not sure the OP ever posted exactly what decoder is in the model...I've been assuming it's a factory-installed Soundtraxx Economi or similar Soundtraxx decoder?
Randy is right with CV 29 being strange and with CV 4. Also with some systems reading sound equiped loco's can be a problem, it may start fine but they seem to draw too much and cause problems reading CVs, I know I have had that problem and have come up with some odd readings, even knowing they are not correct and not what is showing. And the speed step settings might also be the cause of the problem, I would think that most modern systems would operate fine with 28/128 as would the decoders, don't know how MRC is set up with that. Seems odd. Keep us posted.
CV29 value is definitely wrong. Or not reading. After a reset, it should be 6. It reset the short address in CV1 ok, based on your results. If CV1 is still reading 3, try setting CV29 to 6 and see if the loco runs on address 3. Also, it doesn't look like the reset is resetting CV3 and 4, the momentum CVs, They usually go to 0 or 1, depending on the decoder. However, a momentum value won't make the loco run on speed step 0. However - a large enough value in CV4, the deceleration, might make it SEEM like the loco is still moving on step 0 because it will take a while to come to a stop - but eventually it should stop if the speed is on 0, regardless of the momentum setting. It just might not be instant.
Are you talking about changing the speed steps of the decoder, or of the DCC system? If they don't match up, that may be the issue. If your DCC system is set up for 128 steps, but the decoder is set to 14 steps, it might be the decoder will still work OK receiving 28 steps but not 128.
BTW I took a quick look at the MRC manual online. If I understand it right (which I probably don't), with a short address, the system will only recognize CV 29 if it's a single digit number, and if a long address, it must be a two digit number (31-39). Even if you can't read CV 29, I'd maybe try programming it to 2 and see what happens? (You can often change a CV even if you can't read it.)
I just deleted address 106 from the DCC system and was then able to reprogram the loco w/address 106; it also fixed the throttle problem! Then something interesting happened - I changed the speed steps from 14 to 128 and the throttle problem returned. Dropping the speed steps to 28 made the problem disappear. I verified the situation by moving the speed steps back to 128 and the loco refused to stop with throttle controls again. I'm sure that I had previously operated the loco @ 128 w/o problems (I set all my locos to 128 after I figured out what the SPD STEP button did), but no longer. Any thoughts on that?
Even though the MRC manual doesn't mention or address "flashing data" when reading out CVs, I suspect that it means the system was unable to read the value for some reason. That would explain some of the other odd values I've seen. As to why the system can't read them, I have no clue (unless there is a decoder issue which I hope isn't the case).
CV 29 = 29 is a little odd. I assume the engine has a Soundtraxx Economi or similar Soundtraxx decoder (assuming it's a factory install). Their chart for CV 29 values doesn't use 29. The default is 02 (No speed table, No Analog (DC) mode, 28/128 speed steps, Normal direction).
I have the only manual for the MRC Prodigy Elite I've ever found (hardcopy that came with my system & digital version from MRCs website) and it's a little thin given my limited experience w/DCC. I only have one throttle (wireless), so it is automatically the Master. By "try reset again" are you talking about deleting the 106 decoder address from the system or resetting the decoder to the factory defaults? The last thing I tried was changing the locos short address back to 106 after resetting the decoder to the factory defaults and the loco wouldn't respond to the address reprogramming.
Yes, 106 is a short address, no need to mess with 17-18, do you have the full manual, I have been reading it on line as I do not have MRC, it seems to have something to do with programming if after a reset things work fine on address 3, and do you only have just one throttle? Manual shows how to delete address from recall list after use. Try reset again, and just type in 106 into short address do not mess with any other CVs see if problem remains or returns..
wjstix,
The MRC DCC system dooesn't have any controls on the base station; you have to use the handheld controller. The manual also doesn't mention a way to "clear the slate" as such. The only reset that is mentioned for the base unit is to disconnect power for at least 3 seconds (which I do after every operating session) and that doesn't seem to impact any stored data. I probably misspoke in regard to the loco address change as I didn't program it to 106 using CVs 17 & 18; I just used CV 1 so it was still a short address.
I read out the decoder settings with the following results:
CV 1 = 106
CV 2 = 000
CV 3 = 003 (flashing & loco doesn't move)
CV 4 = 004 (flashing & loco doesn't move)
CV 5 = 000
CV 6 = 000
CV 17 = 017 (flasheing)
CV 18 = 003
CV 19 = 000
CV 29 = 029 (flashing)
I then reset the decoder to factory defaults and got the following readouts:
CV 1 = 003
CV 3 = 000
CV 17 = 192
CV 29 = 029 (flashing & loco moves)
Testing the loco after doing the decoder reset showed that it now stops properly when throttled down to 0! However, when I attempted to reprogram the loco address to 106, it would not respond to the reprogramming command. Now I'm really confused......
Also, the original throttle problem occurred with both the speed buttons & knob.
akriggm Stix, I'm not sure if I have a "direct mode" or not, but the same thing happens whether my throttle controller is plugged into the main station or running remotely on batteries. The loco is using a long address (engine # is 106 and that is the programmed address). I changed it from the default 03 when I started running it, so I wouldn't think there is any residual programming from its original address. Is there any way to check for that condition?
I'm not sure if I have a "direct mode" or not, but the same thing happens whether my throttle controller is plugged into the main station or running remotely on batteries. The loco is using a long address (engine # is 106 and that is the programmed address). I changed it from the default 03 when I started running it, so I wouldn't think there is any residual programming from its original address. Is there any way to check for that condition?
NeO6874 rrinker Is there a system reset you can do? Could be something messed up in the command station that is causing this. Speed tables or CV2 wouldn't do this - the first speed table entry, or also CV2, are for the speed in step 1, not step 0. So if for example you set CV2 to a really high value, the locow ould stop at step 0 and as soon as you turned it to step 1 it would take off liek a rocket. --Randy Oh, Lionel Tinplate mode
rrinker Is there a system reset you can do? Could be something messed up in the command station that is causing this. Speed tables or CV2 wouldn't do this - the first speed table entry, or also CV2, are for the speed in step 1, not step 0. So if for example you set CV2 to a really high value, the locow ould stop at step 0 and as soon as you turned it to step 1 it would take off liek a rocket. --Randy
Is there a system reset you can do? Could be something messed up in the command station that is causing this.
Speed tables or CV2 wouldn't do this - the first speed table entry, or also CV2, are for the speed in step 1, not step 0. So if for example you set CV2 to a really high value, the locow ould stop at step 0 and as soon as you turned it to step 1 it would take off liek a rocket.
Oh, Lionel Tinplate mode
Only if you yank the throttle wide open. On my Dad's old 1948 vintage set with the original transformer, I could get decent slow speed performance. He had another older American Flyer outfit where there was almsot no range of motion to the knob on the transformer so that one was stop of pretty much full throttle until the train rolled off the track on a curve. Which is why that one was pretty banged up. The old Lionel wound field motors could be quite smooth (and quiet, if you flipped the lever to turn off the E unit's constant buzz - but then you couldn;t change direction).
akriggm Randy, I doubt that it is a problem with the command station or throttle as no other engines exhibit the problem and the only reset for the command station is to recycle power which has happened numerous times w/o affecting the problem. Now the loco is back to the decoder defaults except for the address, which has been reprogrammed to "106" which is the roadnumber. Thanks, akriggm
I doubt that it is a problem with the command station or throttle as no other engines exhibit the problem and the only reset for the command station is to recycle power which has happened numerous times w/o affecting the problem. Now the loco is back to the decoder defaults except for the address, which has been reprogrammed to "106" which is the roadnumber.
Ah but the part people seem to miss is that the command station stores some information about the loco you are running - so yes, it could be a corrupted memory or setting in the command station and only affect the one loco address. The command station is just like any other computer - a periodic reset is not out of line when it comes to strange issues.
Just to gather more info as I know very little about the MRC system, but put the loco on the program track and read the value in the following CVs if you can. CV 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 17, 18, 19, and 29. Also just how did you program the address 106 you called it a long addy, most systems and decoders use this as a short address, 1-127 is short 128-9999 being long address, that is why checking what is in CV 17 & 18 . Also might try after a reset just running the loco on addy 3 which should be the default after a reset and see how it runs, also checking cv's 3, 4 to make sure they are both set to zero ( 0 ) after reset. 3-4-19 all should be set to zero. Also are you using the speed knob or the buttons to adjust the speed?
-Dan
Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site