B. Bryce If it actually an NCE decoder, I would send a photo of it to Ed Wilson at NCE Support. He will be able to ID it in a heart beat and tell you what is wrong.
If it actually an NCE decoder, I would send a photo of it to Ed Wilson at NCE Support. He will be able to ID it in a heart beat and tell you what is wrong.
I got it figured out but thank you I will keep that under my hat for the future!
I took the other Atlas engine apart and bent the motor contacts a little and made sure they lined up with the decoder pads and this one works now too. Thanks for everyone's help!
This one doesn't actually have slots, the tabs are just supposed to touch the pads on the bottom of the decoder. I guess there are 2 different versions of this decoder one with slots and one without from what I just read. I just bent the tabs a little and lined them up and it works now. Sputtering but that I think is due to a dirty track as my Kato i just bought did the same thing. Now all I have to do is fix the Fairbanks and Morse.
The instructioons show the tape being applied to the tab, between the tab and the frame piece, so with the tape on the outside, unless it is wrapped all the way around, there's a good chance the motor tab touched the frame, which will dmage the decoder. It may or may not smell burnt, but the magic smoke is almost surely released. Or the tabs are not properly inserted int he decoder slots to make solid contact.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Randy the tabs are underneath the decoder. I just separated the 2 halves. They are supposed to make contact with 2 contacts on the bottom side of the decoder. I will try to take some pics to show you.
No Tom it doesn't have that burnt electronics smell which I know well as I used to install car audio for a living and have seen and smell many fried amplifiers.
That indeed is a NCE N-scale decoder. A damaged decoder may not necessarily show visible damage (e.g. component charring), if it's fried. Take a sniff - seriously. Do you pick up any electrical burning smell from either locomotive?
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
LOL not really, I model HO myself as well, I've just seen the same problem over and over again. Part of the reason I don;t do N scale is, my eyes are not the best any more and it's awfully small, plus the locos I would run (if I switched scales, I would still do the same era and same prorotype) are all older ones that you do not simply swap a circuit board to put a decoder in. I don't do surface moutn electronics - and I'm not about to try hard wiring decoders in N scale locos. Or milling the frames, for that matter.
The problem here, with the loco pictured is, it is completely missing BOTH motor tabs!. That kapton tape is on the frame where it should be, but the tabs going from the sides of the motor up and over that tape to the decoder are not there. Hopefully, spare parts are avaialble from the loco manufacturer - without those motor tabs, even if you took out the decoder, it won;t run on DC either.
If you look here at the decoder page, the manual is there as a PDF. You can see where there should be two strips running up on each side of the mootor. And actually the kapton tape is in the wroong place for this install, the instructions show it being placed over the motor tab before putting the frame half back on.
https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000582334-N14A0
Randy knows way more than I do about N-scale decoders. Or to paraphrase Jim Cramer, "I know nothing" That yellowish tape is called Kapton tape and it is an insulating tape and is SOP and much less gooey than electrical tape.
In an HO decoder, we might have seen strands of wire extending from one terminal to the next or a disconnect.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
My apologies. It is N scale and no there does not appear to be any wires. here are some pics. Would I be able to visibly see if it were indeed fried? I can take more pics if necessary.
I see no mentiooon of what scale these are, but it appears liek the OP is talking about N scale. Doubt there are any wires. The fact that the lights come on with F0, and change direction with the directiooon button definitely means there is a decoder installed - if there was no decoder, the loco would buzz horribly and there would be no control of the lights. However, it is very likely the motor is not hoooked up properly - in N scale, that's usually some tabs the loop over 'staples' on the decoder, however it is important that there be a layer of Kapton tape on the frame where these tabs loop over, because if they contact the frame - oops, so much foor that decoder. Or perhaps that is already what happened. Since both locos appear to be address 3, the person who soold this stuff either messed up the decoder install and blew them (lights would still work, but no motor, and no reading of CVs) or simply didn;t install them correctly so there is no motor coontact (symptons would be identical) and either way couldn;t get them to program and so just gave up and sold it all off.
Take the shell off one and take a picture. It will probably be fairly obviooous what's wrong if we can see it.
Yes that will work. I didn't mean to insult your intelligence but we do have people that take shortcuts and then tell us that it didn't work.
We also had someone who paid top dollar for NIB F7 A&B that was advertised as having a factory sound decoder, but didn't have any decoder at all. Hopefully that's not going to be what you find.
There are or should be 2 wires (gray and orange) that go to the motor, right and left (red and black) wires that carry power from the track and a white and blue and a yellow and blue wire that goes to the headlights. The solder connections ought to be shiny, no dull gray. Posting a picture of what you have, may or may not be useful. There are specific directions on how to post pictures in this forum in a sticky thread in the general forum.
BigDaddy Not to be redundant, but if you wrote CV 30 = 2, you have to cycle the power to get the changes to take.
Not to be redundant, but if you wrote CV 30 = 2, you have to cycle the power to get the changes to take.
By lifting the engine off the track right? I did that sorry. I am going to have to mess with it more after I get the kids to bed. I have to see what else I can try.
Ok so I tried what you said. When I try on program track I get "cannot read CV". I also tried on main but it does not seem like anything took. When I move the engine by hand the lights still flicker like before.
rrinker ANd while you're in there trying to do the rest, also set CV19 to 0. If they were once in a consist, they woudl also behave like this. --Randy
ANd while you're in there trying to do the rest, also set CV19 to 0. If they were once in a consist, they woudl also behave like this.
Thanks Randy!
tstage To reset your decoder: Press the PROGRAM button 4x to enter programming track mode Press "2" to access your CVs If it's a NCE decoder then enter "30" (to access CV30) then "2" (for the value of CV30). Other manufacturer decoders generally use CV8 and "2". Press ENTER than exit programming mode by pressing the central red emergency button You may need to lift your locomotive off the track to restart your locomotive. Enter address 3 to see if the reset took. Tom
To reset your decoder:
You may need to lift your locomotive off the track to restart your locomotive. Enter address 3 to see if the reset took.
As in reset you mean option 7 correct? I believe I tried that also.
There are lots of youtube videos on decoder installation. A decoder reset won't hurt your decoder if there is a loose wire and you don't have to open the shell.
Decoders sometimes go insane for no obvious reason. That ranges from total amnesia to running real slow to other anomolous electrical behavior.
That's not what I meant.
Sounds like at least red, black, blue, white, and yellow are all connected properly. That leaves slate/orange as suspect (since the loco isn't moving).
The comment about "backwards" is simply in relation to when you solder the orange/slate wires -- if you have them on the wrong motor poles, the decoder will think it's going forward (and light the front lights), but the locomotive will travel backwards. So either you swap the wires, or you swap the CV to tell the decoder to spin the motor the other way.
-Dan
Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site
No it's not backwards but thanks for the info. I am wondering if the contacts aren't making good enough contact with the wheel base. When i nudge the engines on the track the lights flicker also. Ibreax something about adding a thin layer of solder to them?
Color code for decoder wires is
Red / Black -> track (no polarity)
Slate / Orange -> Motor (no polarity)
If locomotive is "backwards" (i.e. runs in reverse when you tell it forward), you can either reverse the slate/orange wire, OR tell the decoder to reverse direction (CV...uh... 19, I think)
Blue - function common (positive)
White - Function 0 (usually defaults as light, forward)
Yellow - Function 0 (usually defaults as light, reverse)
Green - Function 1 (e.g. gyra light / MARS Light, etc)
Violet - Function 2 (e.g. ditch lights, etc)
Brown (or striped) - Function 3 (e.g. ... um some other light)
Yeah that's what I was thinking too. Also when I hit direction the light changes to rear. I have never installed a decoder so I will have to find a video or something to know what I am looking at. When I left the hobby DCC was way out of my price range and now that I am acquiring stuff again I had to pick this up. I'm sure I will get the hang of it. Also doesn't help that I don't have a layout to mess around and learn the quirks of dcc on. I ordered a Kato unit with dcc so I will test that one too when it comes.
Might need to open them up, and see if a wire might've broken loose. Shippers aren't exactly known for being "gentle" with packages.
I tried at first using a test track. Basically was just 2 sections of straight track by themselves. 1 engine at a time. Thats when i got the cannot read cv message. i was using the program on program track option. Then i tried the main track option using number 3. The lights come on and off remotely now on both engines but they will not move. That's where I stand now.
Are you trying to read the CVs with the locos on the main, or using the programming track option? You cannot read back CVs on the main.
These may have been part of a consist. On both locos, program CV19 to zero. If there is a value other than zero in CV19, then the locos will only run on the consist address.
Then before wasting any more time put one of the locos on the track. Make sure that you have no other locos on the track or else you will program all the locos the same. Make sure you set the PowerCab to the program track mode. Then follow the program track programming menu.
Are you sure that the locos have a decoder? Did you try running the locos on DC to see if they willoperate? Note that you will need a different power supply setup for this, as the PowerCab does not have a DC output.
You can also try resetting the decoders. If the decoders are really NCE, enter a value of 2 in CV 30: https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/201489365-Master-list-of-Decoder-Resets-by-manufacturer-
CTConrailI do have a manual and yes I tried both on 3. I have a little section of test track to test these (individually) and selected the program track option. On both engines I get "cannot read cv". I should add both of these decoders are NCE
When that happens to me, (cannot read CV) usually I don't get the lights or anything else to work.
Edit, you posted while I was writing this post. I'll leave it as is, but if the headlights work with an address of 3, then 3 is the address.
Before we go there, there are some oddities about the NCE system. The PO may have programmed a short address as a long address. By that I mean 100 is a short address, but he may have used 0100 which is long.
Assuming that is not the case, there is a decoder recovery option discussed starting on page 48 of the Power cab 1.65 manual. I would try that, then cycle the power on and off to your Power cab.
I guess we also have to assume the PO correctly installed the decoders and they did work.
https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/202353705-Cannot-Read-CV