Does anyone know anything about installing sound on Trix or Ibertren models? I have a 21 pin Econami that's been through 3 speakers now and none have emitted sound. I don't know what's wrong. When i contacted Soundtraxx the guy spouted gibberish. At least I didn't get it. The last two speakers were ESU, this one is a TCS, the only sound I get from it is a small pop when power is applied.
This is what Soundraxx said, and I don't understand it: Is the factory board following the NEM standard or the original NMRA P standard? The 21P decoders were discontinued when all of the manufacturers switched to the NEM standard. Pins 9 & 10 on this decoder would handle the audio output. You can tie your speaker wires in here.
I've attached pics of the boards of both locos.
http://www.soundtraxx.com/dsd/econami/eco21p.php
That's the decoder, I don't know where to connect the wires.
Did this particular decoder come with a bunch of wires attached, or is it a board to which you have to solder the wires? There are a bunch of wiring diagrams in the Econami manual; http://www.soundtraxx.com/manuals/Installation-Guide.pdf
Again, there are no wires. You can see in the link that there aren't any wires. I've seen the manual multiple times, it provides no information. It says install it on the "factory installed board". That's what I've been doing and nothing happens. The locomotives move and such, but there's no sound.
AfrosteamThis is what Soundraxx said, and I don't understand it: Is the factory board following the NEM standard or the original NMRA P standard? The 21P decoders were discontinued when all of the manufacturers switched to the NEM standard. Pins 9 & 10 on this decoder would handle the audio output. You can tie your speaker wires in here.
Hi,
Both the NEM and the NMRA pin assignments are 9 and 10 for the sound output.
There were different pin assignments as the "standard" developed over the years. You can read about it here and try to make some sense of it. Of course, the intention was to have a decoder with all the extra functions needed, to be able to plug in to the motherboard with... NO wires.
http://www.sbs4dcc.com/tutorialstipstricks/21mtcconnector.html
The NEM standard was developed by Trix. It was even called the 21 pin MTC for Marklin Trix Connector.
Is it possible that you have the decoder plugged in upside down? I'm just grabbing at straws here. I have actually done that with some 21 pin WOWsound boards.
Took me a while to figure out that the pins went through the PC board and then into the plug. Even with pin #11 being blanked out I could still get it in upside down.
What locomotive and tender is that? A Trix model, I assume. I'd like to look up the "Motherboard" where the actual speaker wires attach. WAS there a decoder previously installed that you are replacing?
Hope that helps, Ed
gmpullman Afrosteam This is what Soundraxx said, and I don't understand it: Is the factory board following the NEM standard or the original NMRA P standard? The 21P decoders were discontinued when all of the manufacturers switched to the NEM standard. Pins 9 & 10 on this decoder would handle the audio output. You can tie your speaker wires in here. Hi, Both the NEM and the NMRA pin assignments are 9 and 10 for the sound output. There were different pin assignments as the "standard" developed over the years. You can read about it here and try to make some sense of it. http://www.sbs4dcc.com/tutorialstipstricks/21mtcconnector.html The NEM standard was developed by Trix. It was even called the 21 pin MTC for Marklin Trix Connector. Is it possible that you have the decoder plugged in upside down? I'm just grabbing at straws here. I have actually done that with some 21 pin WOWsound boards. Took me a while to figure out that the pins went through the PC board and then into the plug. Even with pin #11 being blanked out I could still get it in upside down. What locomotive tender is that? I'd like to look up the "Motherboard" where the actual speaker wires attach. Hope that helps, Ed
Afrosteam This is what Soundraxx said, and I don't understand it: Is the factory board following the NEM standard or the original NMRA P standard? The 21P decoders were discontinued when all of the manufacturers switched to the NEM standard. Pins 9 & 10 on this decoder would handle the audio output. You can tie your speaker wires in here.
There were different pin assignments as the "standard" developed over the years. You can read about it here and try to make some sense of it.
What locomotive tender is that? I'd like to look up the "Motherboard" where the actual speaker wires attach.
The text in the link is half cut off, lol. So it's kinda unreadable. The tender loco is a Trix db10 and the tank engine is a Spanish 4-8-4t from Ibertren. Econami says the black part faces up, so that's how I've been installing it. Doesn't seem to fit right facing the other way.
And I'm not Ed unless you weren't referring to me there.
AfrosteamAnd I'm not Ed unless you weren't referring to me there.
I'm another Ed (Gmpullman).
OK, I looked at the Soundtraxx 21 pin guide here: (page 19)
http://www.soundtraxx.com/manuals/Installation-Guide.pdf
Again, it was just a guess.
If you DO hear a click from the speaker I would believe there isn't a short. If either wire or PC trace were shorted you wouldn't even hear a click.
ESU makes a decoder tester. I have one and find it handy for situations like yours.
http://www.esu.eu/en/products/decoder-tester/
They're about $50 and worth every penny, IMHO, unless you only have a handful of DCC locos. I use it pretty frequently.
I'm beginning to wonder if the output amp in the decoder isn't toasted?
I found this photo of what should be your board. You can clearly see the two traces coming from pins 9 and 10 leading to white wires. Of course, these should be your speaker connections.
Read through this thread and see if anything helps?
https://www.reddit.com/r/modeltrains/comments/9h1cc6/installing_sound_on_a_trix_db10/
Sorry I couldn't be more help.
Regards, Ed
I've looked at manual too, there's nothing helpful in it. I tried soldering the speaker wires to the decoder, nothing.
Afrosteam I've looked at manual too, there's nothing helpful in it. I tried soldering the speaker wires to the decoder, nothing.
Again, the decoder and the motherboard are two different things. The speaker wires should not have to be soldered on to the decoder. Just the motherboard (that was already in the loco, I assume).
Good Luck, Ed
That was the first thing i did, nothing. It's shown in the first picture.
Well, I see that the other forum thread I linked to is yours.
Guess there's no help there either.
Hopefully someone else can take a look here and have some helpful suggestions.
Cheers, Ed
Maybe the decoder is busted. But thank you for trying.
I've played with the CV volumes and reset the decoder - nothing. And yes this is a new decoder. I won't hear from Soundtraxx until Monday, maybe. Im beginning to think it's the decoder.
RR_Mel I for one have a short fuse and things like this can really get me worked up.
If Afrostream didn't have a short fuse before, she ought to have on after starting this thread.
As someone prone to snarkyness, there is quite a bit going on.
What seems to have been missed is that there are two different locos and two different circuit boards that the OP is asking about.
For the first picture I would look on the manufacturer (of the loco) website for info on where to put the wires.
On the second one, is there any possibility that solder from one of the pad's at the speaker attachment is touching the other pad? I can't see it that well.
Sorry I have nothing else for you except that the discussion on the first page is highly uncharacteristic of this forum and of Ed #1. I expect our moderator will wack some of his responses Monday.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
On the board that I see where the decoder is plug into is where you attached the two speaker wires. I can’t See if these two points were IDed has speaker outputs? What lead you to attach the speaker wires at these two points? We’re these marked SPK-or some thing like that?
On the decoder board at the 21 pin header- find the blanked off pin- the two pins just above this blanked pin are the speaker outputs.
do a google search for 21 pin DCC pin out- it will ID the pins.
that may help you- BTW THE speaker out puts are VERY sensative to shorts- a breif touch of the two will blow the AMP, causing no audio .
Back again-Look at post from Afrosteam- look at the link listed, go to page 15 it will show pin out for decoder- also look a post About 27 from GMpullman he shows a photo of the PCB the decoder plugs into and the two speaker connections on that board. I am guessing that the first photo you show is the locomotive- the second is the tender where the decoder is to be pluged in.
just a second ID note- the 21 pin header is really a 22 pin- just the number 11 hole or pin blocked for keying the DCC decoder board to be pluged in one way.
top left pin is #1 and goes down to pin 11 ( which is not used) then pin 12 is just to the right of the 11 pin then you go up from pin 12 to pin22.
BigDaddy RR_Mel I for one have a short fuse and things like this can really get me worked up. If Afrostream didn't have a short fuse before, he ought to have on after starting this thread. As someone prone to snarkyness, there is quite a bit going on. What seems to have been missed is that there are two different locos and two different circuit boards that the OP is asking about. For the first picture I would look on the manufacturer (of the loco) website for info on where to put the wires. On the second one, is there any possibility that solder from one of the pad's at the speaker attachment is touching the other pad? I can't see it that well. Sorry I have nothing else for you except that the discussion on the first page is highly uncharacteristic of this forum and of Ed #1. I expect our moderator will wack some of his responses Monday.
If Afrostream didn't have a short fuse before, he ought to have on after starting this thread.
Yes the photos are of two different locomotives. I apologize for getting upset but when i have to tell someone the same thing over and over and they keep telling me do something I keep telling them i can't...
Anyway, neither manufacture say anything on installing sound. Ibertren's manual says to attach the speaker wires to the red and black ones provided. I did that and nothing happened. Trix says nothing, someone on Reddit had to look at the Marklin sound version of the model to find where the speaker wires should go, but that provided no solution either. Im starting to think the decoder's busted.
And I'm female, by the way.
@woodone it's two different locomotives. The speaker isn't blown at least this one isn't. I tried soldering the wires to pins 9 and 10 and it did nothing. All other decoder functions work. For the tender locomotive i had to look at the 3rail sound version to see where the speakers should go but that didn't work.
The speaker might be OK, but the audio amp of the decoder could be bad. They don’t like shorts ! You don’t by chance have the sound muted? Try hitting F8 that is the function for munting the sound.It might be turned off?
Been doing that, nothing. Turning the volumes up did nothing. The speaker is an 8ohm which would work with decoder. I'm calling it defective. Tried on a 3rd locomotive nothing.
AfrosteamAnd I'm female, by the way.
Noted and corrected.
I could be confused too:
You have a single decoder and you have tried it in two different engines and 3 speakers?
Ed #2 has beaucoup locos. I don't think the average model railroader has a decoder tester, although in retrospect I could have used one once.
We have European member that could be of more help when they see this thread. Most of us model using N American manufacturers. If F8 doesn't work, there doesn't appear to by anything obvious wrong. Again, if you have solder extending from one soldering pad to the other, on the circuit board, that would be bad. I just can't see that for sure, but you can.
The red and black wire look thicker than the usual decoder wire. If you are going to be doing more conversions, get yourself some correctly colored 30 ga wire from one of the DCC online shops.
I have had a DCC installation that didn't work and it was very frustrating because nothing was obviously wrong that I could see. When I could see better after cataract surgery I saw what was wrong. Then again, sometimes things come from the factory broken.
@bigdaddy make that 2 locos now. I tried in on a Bachmann tornado which clearly has marked spots for the speaker wires on the board. Still nothing. I give up.
Edit: I thought about replacing those wires but since the decoder works with no 21pin i have, eh.
OK Let start from scratch. How do you know speaker is GOOD?
got a second sound decOder you can hook your speaker to?
test speaker with know GOOD decoder-if said speaker works with your known good decoder-hook that speaker to your 21 pin decoder at pins 9&10 if it does not make sounds- you decoder is DEAD on the audio !
woodone OK Let start from scratch. How do you know speaker is GOOD? got a second sound decOder you can hook your speaker to? test speaker with know GOOD decoder-if said speaker works with your known good decoder-hook that speaker to your 21 pin decoder at pins 9&10 if it does not make sounds- you decoder is DEAD on the audio !
I have several sound locos but they're factory installed save for my Gs4 from Bachmann of which i soldered in the speaker myself. I also added a Mars light to it. But yeah i guess I'll check and get back to you.
@woodone speaker tested and working.
OK, if that speaker is the one you have been using dwith the 21 pin decoder, The decoder is BAD. Very easy to do. You can still have motor drive and lidghts BUT no SOUND! Bad decoder, send it back to SoundTraxx and dwith your reciet when you purchased it. You also have to fill out a warranty return form.
Go to Soundtraxx sit and under service download the return form.
woodone
It's $45 for repairs... I think I'll just get my money back for the decoder. But thank you for helping!
If it less than 90 days old they will repair or replace at no charge.
Oh, well I already put in the request for refund.