Securing buss wires under layout

[kasskaboose]

Thanks for the picture of the helpful clamp.  I purchased something similar that's used for securing telephone wires.  Avoiding pinching them or running a nail through wires is always a good thing!

[bearman]

That plastic loop is similar to the cable clamps I mentioned.  They work great.

[Paul3]

I would never use big staples for wiring.  They can damage the wire, they can damage the wood, they can damage you if you stick them in too far (or miss) and you run your fingers into the ends, etc.  They also are a pain in the butt to remove, and hammering them in can cause problems (I've hit my own fingers too many times using them on Romex).

I also don't like putting them through holes in the joists.  Moving joists or wires becomes a chore, either pulling all the wire back through (and disconnecting all the feeders) or cutting out the hole(s) in the joists.

At my club (and on my old layout), we use plastic loops like this: 

I think these plastic loops are the best solution for stringing wire.  They won't scuff the wire, they are easily installed/removed, they are available in a large number of sizes, and once screwed in they won't fall off or allow the wire to fall out.  They are also available in black or white, and at my club the 1/4" black loops are for the track bus while the white loops are for power feeds and other things.

[cowman]

Going along with Space Mouse and Mr B with the cuphooks, however, I would add to get the ones with the tab that keeps the  wires from falling off the hook.  If removal is needed, just slip the wire out under the tab.

Good luck,

Richard

[Bayfield Transfer Railway]

I bought a cable staple gun and use cable staples that have a U bend in them.  Available at almost any hardware store.

 

[kasskaboose]

Thanks for your assistance.  It means a lot that you understand the need for having access to the wires.

I got 1/4" plastic hooks that work on nailing into the wood. 

[jjdamnit]

Hello all,

Have you thought of cup hooks and zip ties?

Some cup hooks are large enough accommodate a small wire bundle, depending on placement.

Other ones could be used to support wire bundles loosely zip tied together.

Remember you are not building a house, you will need access to the individual wires for maintenance and upgrade.

At this point you cannot code, mark and document your schematic enough. Trust me on this one, this will help immensely for future gremlin chasing. 

Hope this helps.

[DigitalGriffin]

kasskaboose

Can you pls offer really cheap and effective ways to keep the buss wires from hanging low under the layout?  The buss wires are underneath a foam layout that's resting on 1x4's spaced every 16" apart.  Using cargo tape is somewhat effective; duct tape is not working.  One thought I had was buying "u-shaped"  cable staples. I fear that the below might cut into the 14AWG buss wires.  Something like this:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Gardner-Bender-1-2-in-White-Plastic-Staples-For-NM-Cable-50-Pack-PS-50/100204230

If that's a suitable idea, should I get 3/4" wide ones instead?

 

Thanks.

 

 

The nails won't hold in the foam.  Cut out a small square a plywood about 3"x3" and hot glue it to the foam.  Use that as your plastic staple surface.

 

BTW: Those plastic staple clips with nails on each side are what I use.  They work great.  It's easy to loosen then if you need too.  And they never once cut through my insulation.  I also use zip ties

 

 

[MisterBeasley]

I drilled holes through 1x4 joists as I built the bench work, and ran bus lines through them.  For subsequent work, I bundle wires and wrap them with cable ties and then hang the bundles from cup hooks screwed into the joists.

[SouthPenn]

kasskaboose

Great suggestions everyone!  The wires aren't in place so I can easily move them around.  I like the idea of using hooks drilled into the 1x4s underneath the layout.  The twist ties are another helpful suggestion. 

The "U" shaped staples are what I thought to use originally.  My concern is they would cut into the buss wires but probably not.  There's no reason to us something too heavy since the wires might get moved around as the layout grows. 

The 'U' shaped metal staples are meant to be snug against the wires to keep them from moving. I have installed tons of these mostly to hold romex in place. But romex is double insulated. I don't think you would ever have any problems with using these staples on your layout, but there are better solutions.

[bearman]

Plastic cable clamps purchased at my local Ace Hardware.

[hon30critter]

Atchee

drilled 1 X 4s woud be highly suspect for failure

We have built the benchwork for our new club layout entirely out of 1 x 4s and we can climb on it as we wish. We have even drilled six or so 3/8" and 5/8" holes through most of the supporting structure. It is very solid.

The only difference in our case might be that we have screwed and glued 3/4" plywood to the top of the benchwork so the load is distributed over more than one or two boards.

Dave

[zstripe]

You can drill all the holes you want in the side of a support material, wood or steel, alum,etc. it's when you notch or cut on the top or bottom of the material when used as a horizontal support is when you weaken it.

Take Care! 

Frank

[BATMAN]

Atchee

I like wood framing that can support me if absolutely necessary and drilled 1 X 4s woud be highly suspect for failure

I doubt it would be an issue. If your weight is distributed over one board it shouldn't be a problem. If built properly your weight should be distributed over many boards.

You can get a lot of wire through a 1/4" hole.

 

 

[Atchee]

My favorites are zip ties with the screwhole tab and the whtle plastic Romex staples with the 2 nails (replaced with long small diameter sheet metal or wood screws.

I like wood framing that can support me if absolutely necessary and drilled 1 X 4s woud be highly suspect for failure

 

[mobilman44]

In building my current HO (10x15 two level) layout I drilled a plethora of 1/2 inch holes in the many, many 1x4 cross members.  This was done as the benchwork was built, anticipating how many holes would be needed (and adding some extra). 

The results (to me) are terrific.  Bus wiring has separate "holes", turnout wiring separate ones, and future signal wiring has separate ones as well.

[kasskaboose]

Great suggestions everyone!  The wires aren't in place so I can easily move them around.  I like the idea of using hooks drilled into the 1x4s underneath the layout.  The twist ties are another helpful suggestion. 

The "U" shaped staples are what I thought to use originally.  My concern is they would cut into the buss wires but probably not.  There's no reason to us something too heavy since the wires might get moved around as the layout grows.

[SpaceMouse]

I ran my bus along the inside of the outer edge of the layout. I attached the wires with cup hooks that held the wires fairly tight against the inside edge. That way when it comes time to attach the feeder wires, I can unhook them and work on them without crawling under the layout. They seem to be tightly secure in this configuration.  

[Phoebe Vet]

Phoebe Vet

I use a stand off stapler with a cable strap (tie wrap) run under it.

 

To clarify my post.  My stapler has an attachment that stops the staple from being driven flush.  It is made for stapling a wire without  damaging it.  If I use that, then a cable strap slides easily under it.  I use cable straps but a twist tie or even a short piece of wire would work just as well.

[CMStPnP]

In the Electronics section of bothe Frye's Electronics and Home Depot they sell plastic wire guides that will form a closed loop when fastened to something.   Frye's actually has a pretty large selection of DPDT switches, resistors, and LED's.

[Lone Wolf and Santa Fe]

    Don’t ever use duct tape on wires. It’s just a sticky gooey mess. The proper tape to use on wires is gaffer’s tape but it is for temporary use only.
    The problem with drilling holes is that if you have to make a change you might have to pull all of the wire completely out and start all over again.
    The problem with the big Romex straps (staple) that someone posted above is that they tend to split 1x4s and damage them. And they don't really keep the wire tight unless you hammer them in all of the way. They are made for Romex and can easily damage single wires. Also you might not have space to hammer them in or want to disturb the layout with the banging.
    The cable clamps also require hammering. You might be able to replace the nail with a screw. So they might work out ok.
    I think one of the easiest and cheapest solutions like someone else suggested above is to use a staple gun to staple a twist tie (from a box of garbage bags) to the bottom of the 1x4s and use it to tie up the wires. These can easily be untwisted for future changes.

[mbinsewi]

selector

Ditto. It's the cheapest method before purchasing anything else, be it plastic or metal retainers, pipe strapping, conduit, etc.

Agreed, unless, the wiring is already in place, which seems to be the situation with the OP.

Mike.

[selector]

rrebell

I just drilled holes in the 1x4's

 

Ditto.  It's the cheapest method before purchasing anything else, be it plastic or metal retainers, pipe strapping, conduit, etc.

[mbinsewi]

GB (Gardner Bender), most hardware stores carry their products, makes different size cable clamps that you can put around the wires, and then scew the clamp to the 1x4s.

I used the stand-off staples, and in some places, cable zip ties, in some places I drill holes in the supports.  My bench started out as a heavy built work bench, with 2" foam on the top.

Mike.

[PED]

I have a similar arangement with foam and spaced 1x4s under my layout. I attached a lot of the plastic conduit clamps under the 1x4 and ran my wires thru them. If your wire is already in place, just use one screw to hold the clamp on then you can slide the wire into the clamp. When all wire is where you want it, add another screw to the other end of the clamp to keep it in place.

If all you wire is already in place, I dont see how drilling holes in your 1x4 will help since you cannot run the wires thru unless you disconnect one end of the wire.

An alternate way is to put some of the staples mentioned earlier on bottom of 1x4 and then use zip ties to secure your wire to the staples.

[zstripe]

I use a combination of holes drilled through braces and screw eyes which come in a variety of sizes. easy to use.....poke a hole with an awl/ice pick and screw in the eye, anywhere You want. The price with not break the bank. Available at any big box store:

https://express.google.com/product/766751129472242988_775663928851417384_102239280

If You already have Your bus set up and hanging....just screw in the eye where You want support and with needle nose pliers bend the eye out some to slip in the wire. Then you don't have to bend back the eye......leave it bent out, then you can remove any wire you want without having to unscrew any clamp  or staple. Been using them since the late 50's. They come in all sizes and wire thickness, very easy to bend out.

 

Take Care!

Frank

[rrinker]

 I drill hooles through the cross braces. In between, I bought a bag of those plastic clips for tie wraps (they have adhesive on them, but that only serves to hold it in place while I run a screw up the middle), and then use cable ties through them. Both the attachments and cable ties are cheap, in bulk packs. I don;t cinch the cable ties up tight so I can string other wires through if need be, and they are easier to move around to attach feeders. I probably was going to pull them tight after everything was done.

 These are the mounts:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-1-in-Mounting-Base-Natural-100-Pack-HW-4AC/203531920

                            --Randy

 

[gregc]

i agree with the suggestions that you drill a hole "in the middle" of a 1x4" support

otherwise I suggest a cable staple.   can always be removed.

[Phoebe Vet]

I use a stand off stapler with a cable strap (tie wrap) run under it.