richhotrain Have you tried to Program on the Main (POM)? Rich
Have you tried to Program on the Main (POM)?
Rich
I have not, no. What I don't like with the main track programming is that you're ocmpletely blind. You don't know which commands work and which one don't work.
But, I'll try to give it a shot this weekend, removing my other locos and trying to program it on the main track. I will report back.
Thanks.
NS6770fanI run with an NCE Powercab (Which I am not impressed with) and whe this happens to me, I ALWAYS make sure that the loco is not in a consist if it doesn’t run.
I wish I could check but I can't read any CV. This weekend, when I have time, I'll try to program it on the main track again and will try to set CV19 to 0.
You're not too impressed with the PowerCab? Well, I'm not too impress with the Prodigy Advance2 either. The cheapo Bachmann EZ-Command controller never failed once to program a loco, well, the address at least. It can't program or read any CV, which was one of the reason I got the Prodigy. But, so far, I'm less than impressed. I did purchase the PTB-100 in the hope that it would resolve my problems but it hasn't made any friggin' difference...
nemesys richhotrain Have you tried to Program on the Main (POM)? Rich I have not, no. What I don't like with the main track programming is that you're ocmpletely blind. You don't know which commands work and which one don't work. But, I'll try to give it a shot this weekend, removing my other locos and trying to program it on the main track. I will report back. Thanks.
Rather than wait for the weekend, can you take a few minutes today to try a reset on the main? And, yes, remove your other locos first.
Alton Junction
nemesys NS6770fan I run with an NCE Powercab (Which I am not impressed with) and whe this happens to me, I ALWAYS make sure that the loco is not in a consist if it doesn’t run. I wish I could check but I can't read any CV. This weekend, when I have time, I'll try to program it on the main track again and will try to set CV19 to 0. You're not too impressed with the PowerCab? Well, I'm not too impress with the Prodigy Advance2 either. The cheapo Bachmann EZ-Command controller never failed once to program a loco, well, the address at least. It can't program or read any CV, which was one of the reason I got the Prodigy. But, so far, I'm less than impressed. I did purchase the PTB-100 in the hope that it would resolve my problems but it hasn't made any friggin' difference...
NS6770fan I run with an NCE Powercab (Which I am not impressed with) and whe this happens to me, I ALWAYS make sure that the loco is not in a consist if it doesn’t run.
If you have wired the PTB-100 correctly, and it seems that you have, then the problem is either with your DCC system, the decoder itself, or quite simply a need to reset the decoder to factory default.
As I mentioned in an earlier reply, I have killed consists on some setups where the decoder has failed to clear CV19. Since you previously set the long address to 111 which is a consist number, it may be that a consist value remains in CV19. That is why it is important to reset the decoder to factory default. If you cannot do it on the Programming Track, then try to do it on the mainline (POM).
As an aside, what happens if you select loco address 111, or 0111, on the mainline?
You do realize the EZ-Command was doing exactly that, programming 'blind', right? POM isn;t really blind, you are programming the loco with a specific address, and setting only the CV number you punched in.
Your other loco, you managed to get in a consist somehow - are you absolutely sure you are following EXACTLY the steps outlined in the manual? I'm not insulting your intelligence - we had this same issue a while back with another forum member who, after several tries, was found to be skipping one of the steps in the manual. When he repeated the process following exactly what the manual said, it worked perfectly. And all along he thought he was following the correct procedure.
Do you have any locos with decoders but no sound to try? No motor-only decoder needs a program track booster (unless they have a keep alive) and any you buy today can be read back (in the early days of DCC, not all decoders even supported reading CVs). If you have a motor only decoder and that doesn't read, I suspect something else is wrong.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
richhotrain nemesys richhotrain Have you tried to Program on the Main (POM)? Rich I have not, no. What I don't like with the main track programming is that you're ocmpletely blind. You don't know which commands work and which one don't work. But, I'll try to give it a shot this weekend, removing my other locos and trying to program it on the main track. I will report back. Thanks. At this point, does it make any difference if you are programming "blind"? My suspicion is that prior programming has garbled the decoder, so the first thing to do is to reset the decoder to factory default. The main objective is to restore the short address to 3 so that you can regain control of the decoder. Rather than wait for the weekend, can you take a few minutes today to try a reset on the main? And, yes, remove your other locos first. Rich
At this point, does it make any difference if you are programming "blind"? My suspicion is that prior programming has garbled the decoder, so the first thing to do is to reset the decoder to factory default. The main objective is to restore the short address to 3 so that you can regain control of the decoder.
But, I already reset the decoder. That's how I was able to finally take control of the loco at address 3.
rrinker You do realize the EZ-Command was doing exactly that, programming 'blind', right? POM isn;t really blind, you are programming the loco with a specific address, and setting only the CV number you punched in. Your other loco, you managed to get in a consist somehow - are you absolutely sure you are following EXACTLY the steps outlined in the manual? I'm not insulting your intelligence - we had this same issue a while back with another forum member who, after several tries, was found to be skipping one of the steps in the manual. When he repeated the process following exactly what the manual said, it worked perfectly. And all along he thought he was following the correct procedure. Do you have any locos with decoders but no sound to try? No motor-only decoder needs a program track booster (unless they have a keep alive) and any you buy today can be read back (in the early days of DCC, not all decoders even supported reading CVs). If you have a motor only decoder and that doesn't read, I suspect something else is wrong. --Randy
Well, I already mentioned in a previous post that I have 2 Bachmann EMD60 (?), both decoder-equipped but no sound. One is older than the other one because it still came with horn couplers. That one, I haven't been able to read any value from it or re-address it. The other, no problem. I haven't tried to program it on the main track though. I will try to do that this weekend.
richhotrain nemesys NS6770fan I run with an NCE Powercab (Which I am not impressed with) and whe this happens to me, I ALWAYS make sure that the loco is not in a consist if it doesn’t run. I wish I could check but I can't read any CV. This weekend, when I have time, I'll try to program it on the main track again and will try to set CV19 to 0. You're not too impressed with the PowerCab? Well, I'm not too impress with the Prodigy Advance2 either. The cheapo Bachmann EZ-Command controller never failed once to program a loco, well, the address at least. It can't program or read any CV, which was one of the reason I got the Prodigy. But, so far, I'm less than impressed. I did purchase the PTB-100 in the hope that it would resolve my problems but it hasn't made any friggin' difference... My NCE PH-Pro always programmed decoders quite nicely on the Programming Track until I bought my first sound loco. When I kept seeing "cannot read CV", I bought the PTB-100 and my problems ended. If you have wired the PTB-100 correctly, and it seems that you have, then the problem is either with your DCC system, the decoder itself, or quite simply a need to reset the decoder to factory default. As I mentioned in an earlier reply, I have killed consists on some setups where the decoder has failed to clear CV19. Since you previously set the long address to 111 which is a consist number, it may be that a consist value remains in CV19. That is why it is important to reset the decoder to factory default. If you cannot do it on the Programming Track, then try to do it on the mainline (POM). As an aside, what happens if you select loco address 111, or 0111, on the mainline? Rich
My NCE PH-Pro always programmed decoders quite nicely on the Programming Track until I bought my first sound loco. When I kept seeing "cannot read CV", I bought the PTB-100 and my problems ended.
If I have no luck with my Prodigy Advance, I will look at NCE products. I already have the PTB-100. I just want something that works.
nemesys If I have no luck with my Prodigy Advance, I will look at NCE products. I already have the PTB-100. I just want something that works.
I know you said that you had tried to do a reset on the mainline, but it failed. Before you give up on this, try setting CV19 to zero on the mainline. It may be a long shot, but at least it is worth a try. Use POM to change CV19 to zero, then reset the decoder to factory default (CV=8 and CV30=2).
Thing is, a consist value in CV19 would have no effect on reading/writing on the program track. Or it shouldn't. That the loco runs on address 3 means CV19 MUST already be 0.
richhotrain nemesys If I have no luck with my Prodigy Advance, I will look at NCE products. I already have the PTB-100. I just want something that works. That was not my point when I mentioned my NCE PH-Pro. I was not suggesting that you switch to NCE. I was just pointing out that the NCE system uses the terminology "cannnot read CV" as opposed to the MRC Zephyr terminology. I know you said that you had tried to do a reset on the mainline, but it failed. Before you give up on this, try setting CV19 to zero on the mainline. It may be a long shot, but at least it is worth a try. Use POM to change CV19 to zero, then reset the decoder to factory default (CV=8 and CV30=2). Rich
That was not my point when I mentioned my NCE PH-Pro. I was not suggesting that you switch to NCE. I was just pointing out that the NCE system uses the terminology "cannnot read CV" as opposed to the MRC Zephyr terminology.
I will try that, Rich. Thanks!
rrinker Thing is, a consist value in CV19 would have no effect on reading/writing on the program track. Or it shouldn't. That the loco runs on address 3 means CV19 MUST already be 0.
That's something that is a complete unknown - just how the Prodigy handles address ranges. It's not mentioned in the Prodigy instructions (sometimes there are reasons for slightly larger instruction manuals - this is kind of important information). We know NCE can use a number like 111 as a short address or long address, depending on the use of the leading 0. We know Digitrax will always treat 111 as short. But what does MRC do? ANd is it indicated the same way, by applying the leading 0?
Frankly, I would try an unambiguous long address first, to see if the loco actually programs. Like 1234. That's a long address on ANY DCC system.
rrinker That's something that is a complete unknown - just how the Prodigy handles address ranges. It's not mentioned in the Prodigy instructions (sometimes there are reasons for slightly larger instruction manuals - this is kind of important information). We know NCE can use a number like 111 as a short address or long address, depending on the use of the leading 0. We know Digitrax will always treat 111 as short. But what does MRC do? ANd is it indicated the same way, by applying the leading 0? Frankly, I would try an unambiguous long address first, to see if the loco actually programs. Like 1234. That's a long address on ANY DCC system. --Randy
I don't own an MRC Prodigy either as I mentioned in my initial reply, so like everyone else, just trying to think this through.
Guys, just want to mention I appreciate the time you're taking to try to help me. I will try a few things this weekend on the main track.
I suggested an unamiguous long address like 1234 because with one like 111, there are two possible ways to not get it right - when programming it, and then when selecting it to try and run it. You could end up with it programmed as a short address but trying to select the long address - that won't work; or you could end up with it programmed as the long address and trying to select the short address, which also won't work. Using an address that can ONLY be long means both when programming it and selecting it, you definitely have the correct address type, at least.
rrinker I suggested an unamiguous long address like 1234 because with one like 111, there are two possible ways to not get it right - when programming it, and then when selecting it to try and run it. You could end up with it programmed as a short address but trying to select the long address - that won't work; or you could end up with it programmed as the long address and trying to select the short address, which also won't work. Using an address that can ONLY be long means both when programming it and selecting it, you definitely have the correct address type, at least. --Randy
Yes, I understand, Randy. It makes sense. I was actually puzzled initially on how to enter that 111 address... Long or short?
If MRC works like NCE, you can program the decoder either way. But that also means that when then trying to run the loco, you have to select it the correct way to match how you programmed it or it will never move. Since it does appear that MRC uses 1-127 as consist numbers, it is probably safest to program loco 111 as a long address. Consist numbers in CV19 are the same as short addresses in CV1. They don;t have to be equal, but if there is a consist number in CV19 besides 0, the loco won't respond to any address, long or short. Sound decoders will operate the sounds from the original decoder address, but there will be no motor control, motor control will only work on the consist address in CV19. For normal operation of a single loco you always want CV19 to be 0.
Randy, I suggested that the OP try to select 111 and 0111 just to see if the loco will respond to either address. He may or may not be able to program 1234 if he cannot gain control over the loco by starting out with short address 3.
I don't understand the resistance to trying 111 or 0111. If I had the loco in front of me, I could have tried both addresses in about 30 seconds.
There no resistance. Just trying to keep it simple. At issue if if the loco is even taking programming. Change one thing at a time - program a known long address and see if it responds. If it's taking programming, then the issue is how to key in 111 to make it long address 111. If it won't take programming at all, then there is another issue somewhere.
If it takes something like 1234 and works, then the issue is just figuring out the correct sequence to use 111 as a long address on MRC. You certainly know the correct way to do this with your NCE system, the problem is the OP is having some difficulties with this and by using an address that can only be a long address, it eliminates several places where a mistake in procedure could be occurring. Unless someone knows the MRC absolutely works EXACTLY like NCE when it comes to 111 vs 0111. For now we can keep that out of the equation and concentrate on making sure the system can program and then acquire a loco. That's why I am suggesting using 1234 instead of continuing with 111, even though in the end the OP would want the loco set to 111 since that's the cab number.
rrinker There no resistance. Just trying to keep it simple. At issue if if the loco is even taking programming. Change one thing at a time - program a known long address and see if it responds. If it's taking programming, then the issue is how to key in 111 to make it long address 111. If it won't take programming at all, then there is another issue somewhere. If it takes something like 1234 and works, then the issue is just figuring out the correct sequence to use 111 as a long address on MRC. You certainly know the correct way to do this with your NCE system, the problem is the OP is having some difficulties with this and by using an address that can only be a long address, it eliminates several places where a mistake in procedure could be occurring. Unless someone knows the MRC absolutely works EXACTLY like NCE when it comes to 111 vs 0111. For now we can keep that out of the equation and concentrate on making sure the system can program and then acquire a loco. That's why I am suggesting using 1234 instead of continuing with 111, even though in the end the OP would want the loco set to 111 since that's the cab number. --Randy
OK, guys, here is what I did:
I will try to now recover it.
I don't know what to do now...
In a somewhat related subject, I still had one of my cheap Bachmann with a DCC decoder that I hadn't been able to program. Well, I decided to give it a shot after my failed Athearn attempt. So, I put it back on the main track. Hit Prog Main. Did enter when prompted for "Loco". Then, at the following "Adr" prompt, I decided to enter "974", its road number. Pressed Enter and then tried to move it at address 974. It moved! So, it's programmed now!
Of course, I tried the same thing back with my Athearn. No such luck, alas... It's still dead.
Another note. Entering address "0000" for the loco, I can again control the sound and the lights, but cannot move the loco.
Update: I was able to reset the locomotive finally to default, e.g. address 3. Tried a few times to enter "111" and "0111" for the address like I did for my 2nd Bachmann, no change.
I think it should be noted that after I hit "Prog Main", the address was set to 0000 as I had tried to turn off the sound. When prompted for the new address at the "Adr" prompt, I just pressed "Enter". Then, when finally at the CV section, I entered 30 for the CV and "2" for the value. Turned off the power for about 10 seconds. Then, I turned it back on. This time, the sound didn't come up right away. The headlight and the mars light did flash a few times. I knew by then that the decoder had been reset. I'm writing this as much for me as for anybody else who could have those problems trying to program a Tsunami2 decoder with an MRC Prodigy Advance.
No, the address is not set to 0000. The address is actually set to unknown. You needed to set CV17 and 18 FIRST and then set CV29. POM only sends program commands to the address selected on the controller. So it was unlikely to work at all if you didn't know what address it was working on.
Address 0000 is a broadcast address - EVERY decoder, regardless of address, should respond. Which is why you were able to reset the loco to default using address 0000.
Now that it works on address 3, repeat what you did with CV17, 18, and 29. Select address 3, verify that the loco runs. Then set CV17 and 18. The loco should still operate as address 3. Finally, change CV29 to 38. Now the loco should stop responding to address 3 - because now it's 1234. Select address 1234, and it should work.
rrinker No, the address is not set to 0000. The address is actually set to unknown. You needed to set CV17 and 18 FIRST and then set CV29. POM only sends program commands to the address selected on the controller. So it was unlikely to work at all if you didn't know what address it was working on. Address 0000 is a broadcast address - EVERY decoder, regardless of address, should respond. Which is why you were able to reset the loco to default using address 0000. Now that it works on address 3, repeat what you did with CV17, 18, and 29. Select address 3, verify that the loco runs. Then set CV17 and 18. The loco should still operate as address 3. Finally, change CV29 to 38. Now the loco should stop responding to address 3 - because now it's 1234. Select address 1234, and it should work. --Randy
That didn't work, Randy. I again removed everything from my main track, except the Athearn. I set CV17 to 192 and CV18 to 111 for address 0111. I checked like you suggested that the loco was still responding to address 3, which it did. I then set CV29 to 38. Turned off power, turned it back on. The loco would no longer respond on address 3. But it wouldn't respond on address 0111 either (btw, when I enter 111 for the loco address, the cab always displays "0111". So, switched back to 0. I could again gain control of the sound and the light. Then, set CV30 to 2 and that did reset the decoder the first time to address 3. So, I'm kinda making progress. I can now pretty much reset the decoder whenever I want. It just doesn't want any address I give it...
Try the values for 1234 again, not the values for 111. I am not convinced that the system is able to handle a decoder programmed with a long address that is potentially a short address also.
Since it works perfectly fine on address 3, it is obviously able to control the loco using a short address. Since it stops working when you change the address, it IS taking the changes.
Arggghhh, did you try setting CV19 to zero?
I remain semi-convinced that the system still thinks the loco is part of a consist.
Maybe yes, maybe no, but that is something that I would have tried early on.
I do remain convinced that the problem is in the programming of the decoder, not the decoder itself, or the PTB-100, or the command station.
If the loco ran on 3, CV19 was 0. I am becoming convinced that MRC cannot run a long address 0111. The results are about the same as if I tried doing that with my Digitrax. I just wish the second time when he did things in the correct order he used the CV17 and CB18 values for 1234, not 111. That would have proven it was taking a long address. Everything else that was reported are results consistent to what he says he is doing, no mysteries there. POM is working exactly as it should. The first attempt failed because he changed CV29 before supplying known values for CV17 and CV18, resulting in the loco address becoming unknown and sunsequent program commands to the address selected on the cab were thus ignored.
It doesn't help that 111 is in the most ambiguous ranges in the DCC spec. It's ALWAYS a short address on Digitrax, can be either a short or long with NCE, and is always a LONG on Lenz. MRC appears to leave any information like this out of their manual to keep it 'simple' Well, it's kind of important to know how the system works to prevent problems like this. That's based on my reading through the manual on the MRC site, but I did not read every word, I was focused on the programming instructions.