On my current layout, I have unpowered Atlas Code 83 Custom Line #6 turnouts. I have no problems whatsoever with the unpowered frogs.
On my new layout, I am seriously considering Atlas Code 83 Custom Line #8 turnouts. Will I need to power the frogs to assure no loss of power as equipment crosses the longer frogs?
Rich
Alton Junction
I suspect the frog is long enough in a 8 to nearly cover the full wheelbase of one truck of a 4 axle diesel or smaller. Of course if everything has keep alives in it, it wouldn;t matter, but soldering a wire to the frog is easier and cheaper than buying a whole lot of keep alives.
-Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinker I suspect the frog is long enough in a 8 to nearly cover the full wheelbase of one truck of a 4 axle diesel or smaller. Of course if everything has keep alives in it, it wouldn;t matter, but soldering a wire to the frog is easier and cheaper than buying a whole lot of keep alives. -Randy
Rich, there is a set of contacts on the Tortoise machine that can be used to power the frog. And I believe the instructiions show how to do that.
The Atlas #8 actually has a copper wiring tab at the outside edge of the ties for the frog wire, not the hole right on the frog like the #6.
Sheldon
Yes, the Tortoise instruction sheet shows the wiring. You'd hook the frog wire to terminal 4, and your left and right rail feeds to 2 and 3. If it connects the wrong side to the frog, swap the wires on 2 and 3.
--Randy
Sheldon and Randy, thanks.
So, I guess that I am back to my original question. Do I really need to power the frog on an Atlas Code 83 Custom Line #8 turnout? Randy thinks not, and I kind of feel the same way. What do others think?
I am reluctant to buy a bunch of #8s if I am going to have to power the frogs.
Need?, maybe not, but I do.
No, I said you probably do - 4's and 6's I've not had a problem even with a relatively small loco, but the frog on the 8 is MUCH longer. If you have keep alives in all locos you probably don't. That only applies to DCC. I'd still rather just power the frogs than use keep alives in every loco.
Hi Rich:
My suggestion is to take it one step at a time. Add the frog feeders to the turnouts before installing them but don't do anything else until you have had a chance to run all your engines over the #8s. If you have a problem the feeders are already there to fix it. If you don't have a problem all that has happened is that you spent a couple of extra minutes adding a wire.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
hon30critter Hi Rich: My suggestion is to take it one step at a time. Add the frog feeders to the turnouts before installing them but don't do anything else until you have had a chance to run all your engines over the #8s. If you have a problem the feeders are already there to fix it. If you don't have a problem all that has happened is that you spent a couple of extra minutes adding a wire. Dave
Rich, you are most welcome.
I'm going to add a word of caution regarding the Atlas Customline Code 83 #8 turnouts based on my own experience with one of them. The #8 point rails are much different from the #6s. The #6 point rails are stamped nickel silver but the #8 point rails appear to be cast metal of some sort. I believe that the #8 point rails have a weak point where the tab that keeps the point rails on the throw bar is concerned. The tab is easily broken off of the point rail.
Here is how I discovered the problem. I bought a #8 to use as a test sample for the club's new layout. The first thing I did was to tune the turnout so that everything would work correctly. While doing that I noticed that one of the point rails did not fit into the stock rail properly. It was twisted a bit, enough that the tip of the point rail was not parallel to the indent in the stock rail. It was sticking out enough at the top that I thought it might catch the wheel flanges. When I tried to gently twist the tip of the point rail into place the tab that holds the point rail on the throw bar broke off. I wasn't applying much force at all. I was surprised at how easily it broke.
If you decide to use the #8s I would suggest that, if you need to adjust a point rail, remove the point rail from the turnout completely so that you can bend it without putting any stress on the throwbar tab, and definitely do not attempt to bend the tab even slightly.
That's my experience with one single Atlas Customline Code 83 #8 turnout. Maybe the turnout point rail was defective, or maybe I am more ham fisted that I think I am, but the bottom line for me was that I strongly recommended that the club not use them, which they did not.
I will add one other observation about the #8s. I tried to solder the tab back on but I couldn't get the solder to stick to the cast point rail despite several attempts (please refrain from offering me any tips on how to solder. I know how to solder). If you plan on adding jumpers between the point rails and the closure rails as is recommended by Alan Gartner in his "Wiring for DCC" blog, you will have a devil of a time soldering the jumpers to the point rails. The #6 point rails are easy to solder to.
Dave, thanks for that discussion of the #8. I have been somewhat hesitant to go the #8 route, so your comments provide a lot of food for thought.
Dave, I really do think you just had that occasional bad one. I have many Atlas #8's from various production runs, no problems at all.
Granted, I don't solder jumpers on to the points......
But I have actually disassembled a few and used the points and frog to build large curved turnouts, also without difficulty.
#8 Turnouts??!! Where is your layout? Basement of the Pentagon? (heh-heh)
CMStPnP #8 Turnouts??!! Where is your layout? Basement of the Pentagon? (heh-heh)
Mine is in a 24' x 40' room above my detached garage, and I have #8's for lots of my mainline crossovers.
I know lots of people with larger layouts than mine.......
But it is not just about how much space you have, but how you choose to use it. While large, my layout is relatively simple with broad curves and large turnouts.
ATLANTIC CENTRALDave, I really do think you just had that occasional bad one. I have many Atlas #8's from various production runs, no problems at all.
You may well be right Sheldon, but even if I had a dud the design of the #8s is questionable IMHO. Why use very thin point rail castings when there would be fewer potential complications if they used stamped points?
If the #6s had been constructed the same way as the #8s, the club would be using Peco turnouts.
Cheers!!
hon30critter ATLANTIC CENTRAL Dave, I really do think you just had that occasional bad one. I have many Atlas #8's from various production runs, no problems at all. You may well be right Sheldon, but even if I had a dud the design of the #8s is questionable IMHO. Why use very thin point rail castings when there would be fewer potential complications if they used stamped points? If the #6s had been constructed the same way as the #8s, the club would be using Peco turnouts. Cheers!! Dave
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Dave, I really do think you just had that occasional bad one. I have many Atlas #8's from various production runs, no problems at all.
Well, I think they were concerned about the longer length flexing if they stamped them.
I just picked up an Atlas customline #6 turnout at my local hobby shop and the point rails appear to be cast. I wonder if it's a new version ?
Joe