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New NCE Power Cab, no power to the track

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  • Member since
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Posted by bearman on Tuesday, March 27, 2018 12:08 PM

Henry, the glass should be half full.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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Posted by richg1998 on Tuesday, March 27, 2018 1:56 PM

It has been many years since I first tried my Power Cab. Time's fun when you are having flies.

I was like a kid, in a hurry and used some #18 hookup wire.  Slid the wire in and tightend the two screws. No power to the track. Put meter probes on the screws, no AC voltage. Checked connections on panel with ohm meter. Pulled wires, saw what I did. DOH. Did not strip enough insulation of one wire. I "thought" I had. "Thinking" and "knowing" are two different issues. Stripped one wire again, volage this time.

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by 2002p51 on Tuesday, March 27, 2018 3:35 PM

rrinker

 You didn't accidently do something silly like have one of the wires pushed too far into the screw terminal so that it clamped down on the insulation rather than the conductor?

                                         --Randy 

 

Ha ha, no, I stripped the ends just like you should.  :)

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Posted by bearman on Tuesday, March 27, 2018 5:04 PM

Then when you get around to it, check if juice is going through the bus to the track and the seperate track test.  Some of us would like to know what you find out.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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Posted by Old Fat Robert on Tuesday, March 27, 2018 5:56 PM

2002: Not suggesting that this is your problem, but I have, in the past year or so, needed to replace two of my (NCE) plug in panels. One socket (the left on both) failed. The right socket continued to perform wonderfully. Just FYI.

Old Fat Robert 

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Posted by bearman on Tuesday, March 27, 2018 6:47 PM

OFB, that would certainly explain the problem but evidently there is voltage across the plug in sockets.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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Posted by richg1998 on Tuesday, March 27, 2018 7:48 PM

Next obvius thing is use the meter probes right at the end of the two buss wires that come from the connector on the panel. Where do they connect to the track? The same procedure when looking for a open or poor connection on the layout track. Next obvious point. One step at a time until he gets to the loco.

Many have used the quarter test. If a quarter does not trip the DCC system, there is an issue. It is not difficult. Well, it should not be.

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by 2002p51 on Wednesday, March 28, 2018 4:15 AM

Well, this is interesting. Last night I connected the NCE system to a seperate piece of flex track that is NOT part of the layout. Soldered wires to the rails and screwed the other end into the NCE board. The two DCC locomotives that I have both powered up, ran backwards and forward, sounds worked, headlight worked, etc. Okay. 

Then, just as a check, I powered the layout with my old DC system and all trains ran fine. So, bus wires should be good.

Disconnected DC, reattached the NCE board to the bus and NOW I got an intermittent LED. The display on the PowerCab was normal but that LED refused to stay on steady.

Frustrating to say the least. I've got the day off today so I am going to really work on this. I got a long response from NCE customer service with a whole list of things to try.

 

Wish me luck.  :)

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Posted by bearman on Wednesday, March 28, 2018 4:35 AM

This is NOT interesting.  It is confounding.  You and gdelmoro's four fried circuit breakers are running neck-and-neck for the most bizarre electrical problems in a long time.  I hope NCE has been able to help you out.  And I really do wish you luck.  Just one question, did NCE say that the problem was probably in the wiring and not with the Power Cab?

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, March 28, 2018 6:14 AM

I have to agree with bearman on this one.

The fact that you were able to connect the Power Cab to a separate piece of track and run locomotives suggests that the Power Cab is problem-free.

You were also able to connect a DC power pack to your layout and run trains.

The fact that you are converting an existing DC-powered layout to DCC suggests to me that the DC wiring is adversely affecting the performance of the Power Cab.

I have no suggestions as to how to remedy this problem. But, as I mentioned in a previous reply to this thread, if the Power Cab is connected to the Power Panel and there is power at the taps, then the only thing left to check is the other side of the two wires leading from the Power Panel to the layout.

I have to believe that a simple test with a volt meter will establish that power is reaching the layout. So, in my opinion, something about the DC wiring is at the heart of the problem.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by CMStPnP on Wednesday, March 28, 2018 6:20 AM

2002p51

Well, this is interesting. Last night I connected the NCE system to a seperate piece of flex track that is NOT part of the layout. Soldered wires to the rails and screwed the other end into the NCE board. The two DCC locomotives that I have both powered up, ran backwards and forward, sounds worked, headlight worked, etc. Okay. 

Then, just as a check, I powered the layout with my old DC system and all trains ran fine. So, bus wires should be good.

Disconnected DC, reattached the NCE board to the bus and NOW I got an intermittent LED. The display on the PowerCab was normal but that LED refused to stay on steady.

Frustrating to say the least. I've got the day off today so I am going to really work on this. I got a long response from NCE customer service with a whole list of things to try.

 

Wish me luck.  :)

Just curious........ are you testing the new DCC system while the old DC powerpack or any DC accessories are connected to the tracks or track power?    If it was me, even if the DC powerpack were turned off I would disconnect it as a precaution before attempting DCC power.   I think you stated above you did that.

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Posted by bearman on Wednesday, March 28, 2018 6:30 AM

Was the LED flickering when you first connected the Power Cab?  And is there track voltage above the first feeder, and below the first feeder with the Power Cab connected?

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, March 28, 2018 6:36 AM

bearman

Was the LED flickering when you first connected the Power Cab?  And is there track voltage above the first feeder, and below the first feeder with the Power Cab connected? 

More and more, it seems to me that the problem is somehow related to hooking up DCC power to a DC layout without adequate preparation for DCC, whatever that might be.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by bearman on Wednesday, March 28, 2018 6:45 AM

Yeah, Rich, but there is all that info out there which says that no additional prep is necessary when you convert to DCC.  But, DC wiring is more forgiving than DCC wiring.  This situation is bizarre.  I still wonder about what the NCE advice was all about.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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Posted by bearman on Wednesday, March 28, 2018 6:53 AM

2002p51, nothwithstanding the NCE advice, I think you are going to have to go through and check every single feeder connection to the bus, especially that first one.  Alternatively, rip out that first feeder and reconnect it to the bus and see what happens.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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Posted by 2002p51 on Wednesday, March 28, 2018 7:23 AM

bearman

Just one question, did NCE say that the problem was probably in the wiring and not with the Power Cab?

 
No, I did. I still believe so.
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Posted by bearman on Wednesday, March 28, 2018 7:26 AM

Check that first feeder.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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Posted by 2002p51 on Wednesday, March 28, 2018 7:26 AM

CMStPnP

 

 
Just curious........ are you testing the new DCC system while the old DC powerpack or any DC accessories are connected to the tracks or track power?    If it was me, even if the DC powerpack were turned off I would disconnect it as a precaution before attempting DCC power.   I think you stated above you did that.
 

 
The DC power pack is not only shut off but it is unplugged from the wall.
 
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Posted by 2002p51 on Wednesday, March 28, 2018 7:28 AM

bearman

2002p51, nothwithstanding the NCE advice, I think you are going to have to go through and check every single feeder connection to the bus, especially that first one.  Alternatively, rip out that first feeder and reconnect it to the bus and see what happens.

 

 
I think if there was a problem with any of the feeders the DC trains would not run, and they do with no issues.
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Posted by bearman on Wednesday, March 28, 2018 7:38 AM

2002p51

 I think if there was a problem with any of the feeders the DC trains would not run, and they do with no issues. 

 

Yeah, well, I cannot disaree with you.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, March 28, 2018 7:47 AM

2002p51
 
bearman

Just one question, did NCE say that the problem was probably in the wiring and not with the Power Cab? 

No, I did. I still believe so. 

Which do you believe is the problem? The wiring or the Power Cab?

Rich

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Posted by BigDaddy on Wednesday, March 28, 2018 8:36 AM

2002p51
Disconnected DC, reattached the NCE board to the bus and NOW I got an intermittent LED. The display on the PowerCab was normal but that LED refused to stay on steady.

Intermittant problems are the worst, MR, cars, computers, or anything else. 

I could imagine a loose connector or the panel where the bus connects might be the culprit.  I suppose I would reconnect to the test track and gently fiddle with the back of the panel connections to see if I could make the red light to go out or stop the train from running.  If the problem couldn't be reproduced on the test track, we are back to a problem being in the bus or down stream.

Aside from increasing feeders or bus gauge, I can't remember reading anything here about a DC to DCC conversion that didn't work unless you did X.  We did have someone who mistakenly thought some of his old DC feeders were structure lighting, but that was a short.

 

 
 

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by 2002p51 on Wednesday, March 28, 2018 9:05 AM

richhotrain

 Which do you believe is the problem? The wiring or the Power Cab?

 

 

I believe the problem is in the wiring.

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Posted by BigDaddy on Wednesday, March 28, 2018 9:08 AM

Is there anything else you are not telling us, like the DCC connection from the NCE connects to a terminal strip but the DC connection uses a different part or different terminal strip?

 

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by 2002p51 on Wednesday, March 28, 2018 9:15 AM

Okay folks hang on it's about to get weirder.

This morning I hooked up that seperate piece of flextrack again and messed around prgramming the long addresses for my two DCC locomotives. That all went okay. Actually was able to have both of them running indepenently on the same track, which is as it should be.

But here's where it gets weird. Switched the PCP card back to the layout wiring and got the same intermittant LED. It feels like the power supply plug is a little loose in the socket so I got a power strip and plugged it into that. Still sloppy and still intermittant LED. Sooooo, I unplugged the power supply and plugged in the DC power pack. Ran a DC locomotive all over the place and it was fine. But then it would hestitated for a split second every few feet. Not enough to stop, just like a tiny little jump. Then I noticed that everytime it did that the screen on the PowerCab would flash on!  Remember, the power supply for this is unplugged, hanging in the air so no power is going to the PCP card! Yet the PowerCab screen is flashing every few feet a DC locomotive is running around the layout.

This is getting frustrating enough that I'm seriously considering boxing it all back up and putting it on eBay and giving up on the whole DCC thing. :(

 

 

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Posted by bearman on Wednesday, March 28, 2018 9:23 AM

Disconnect the Power Cab from the PCP when you connect DC.  And are you connecting the DC directly to the ends of the bus wires or is there something in between the DC transformer and the bus ends?

Randy, it is time for you to weigh in.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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Posted by BigDaddy on Wednesday, March 28, 2018 9:24 AM

Are you saying that the NCE, while not connected to the power supply, was still connected to the bus while you were running DC ?    Oops - Sign

 I think we now know the bus connection to the DCC panel is different than the bus connection to the DC controller.  Other people may know, and I'm sure NCE knows what happens when the Power cab sees DC power from a DC system.  I do not.  I would see if your test track still works normally.
 

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by 2002p51 on Wednesday, March 28, 2018 9:45 AM

BigDaddy

Are you saying that the NCE, while not connected to the power supply, was still connected to the bus while you were running DC ?    Oops - Sign 

 

That would be a yes.

I was under the understanding that it was possible to run a layout using DCC sometimes and DC at others, just not at the same time.  Is that not so?

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, March 28, 2018 9:47 AM

Oh boy !

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Posted by 2002p51 on Wednesday, March 28, 2018 9:56 AM

BigDaddy

  I would see if your test track still works normally.

 

 
Just tried it and yes, both locomotives on the test track performed normally, all motion, lights and sounds.

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