cuyama Quite right, I typo'd on my phone. (Still on my first cup of coffee) DigitalGriffin Didn't John Armstrong lose his Gore and depheated that way? John Allen built the Gorre and Daphetid. It burned after his death, but because of a faulty gas heater, not the railroad wiring. As was stated earlier in this very thread. John Armstrong's O scale layout never burned. Parts of it have been incorporated into others' layouts.
Quite right, I typo'd on my phone. (Still on my first cup of coffee)
DigitalGriffin Didn't John Armstrong lose his Gore and depheated that way?
John Allen built the Gorre and Daphetid. It burned after his death, but because of a faulty gas heater, not the railroad wiring. As was stated earlier in this very thread.
John Armstrong's O scale layout never burned. Parts of it have been incorporated into others' layouts.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
cuyama bearman After reading some opf the posts, it seems to me that the cure, an extinguisher, could be worse than the disease, a fire. Only because some of those posts are completely wrong. I wish that people who post "wisdom" gained by "reading google" would edit/delete their false information when their errors are pointed out -- instead of defending the incorrect "facts". As others noted, an ABC-type extingusher won't hurt you, if you feel the need to have one. Aim at the base of the flames. And exit the house if that doesn't stop the fire.
bearman After reading some opf the posts, it seems to me that the cure, an extinguisher, could be worse than the disease, a fire.
Only because some of those posts are completely wrong. I wish that people who post "wisdom" gained by "reading google" would edit/delete their false information when their errors are pointed out -- instead of defending the incorrect "facts".
As others noted, an ABC-type extingusher won't hurt you, if you feel the need to have one. Aim at the base of the flames. And exit the house if that doesn't stop the fire.
Mike
bearmanAfter reading some opf the posts, it seems to me that the cure, an extinguisher, could be worse than the disease, a fire.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
Had anyone lost a layout to a fire? Didn't John Armstrong lose his Gore and depheated that way? And didn't Jeffrey wimbly have a shed fire where his trains were? So yes it can happen but it's a RARE occurance. If you miswire a transformer where there's lots of juice, or create enough juice where something arcs, or leave a soldering iron on, yes that's enough to start a fire. At the club I belonged to, by the exit door is a blinked light for the light switch. If it's on, you forgot to shut down the layout power.
bearman After reading some opf the posts, it seems to me that the cure, an extinguisher, could be worse than the disease, a fire. Assuming the disease strikes.
After reading some opf the posts, it seems to me that the cure, an extinguisher, could be worse than the disease, a fire. Assuming the disease strikes.
Only the wrong type. A few times I've been in server rooms where they actually reminded me about the Halon discharge warning light - if you see that light, you have 30 seconds to get out of the room. The recommended dry chemical ABC type is not a problem like that. If in any doubt at all, just get out and call the professionals, your life isn;t worth it.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I have a friend who designed fire protection systems. I asked him if I needed a sprinkler system.
He said that would help save my neighbors house.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Bear "It's all about having fun."
I've been thinking about that since this thread started. It would be a pretty good trick to burn down a layout, or do they burn up?
If foam. every knows foam won't burn, melts. A plastic building would melt,a wood one' if exposed to open flame would go puuff and die out.
If plywood, will surely burn.But did you ever try to get a chunk of any wood to catch fire,without some kind of help. Kindeling or gas or ??
Should you have a open flame,near to the layout, I would think there would be more inportent things to worry about
anyone else know of a layout caused fire?
bearman Ok, has anyone ever had an electrical fire caused by a poorly wired layout?
Ok, has anyone ever had an electrical fire caused by a poorly wired layout?
The odds are like hitting the lottery for the big payout.
Yes, DCC poses some new questions about ampacity and short circuits, but even so the power/heat levels are well below those commonly considered a fire hazard.
That is why you don't have to hire an electrician, and the wiring of your layout is not covered by the National Electrical Code.......
I still use DC, I have 10 throttles at 5 amp each, each with its own overload protection. 5 amps x 13.8 volts = 69 watts, not enough heat to make a piece of toast.
And, no foam on my layout anyway.
I work in construction and we don't use that stuff......
Sheldon
Can't say I've ever heard of one. And before someone trots out John Allen - that was caused by a balky heater that John knew to shut off after finishing an op session, but the people who came over for one last run after his death didn't.
A few random thoughts from a construction professional who grew with a fire fighter......
Smoke detectors, preferably 120volt with battery backup, linked to a central station alarm.
Portable ABC extinguishers in logical locations.
Good practices regarding clutter and flamable liquids.
Therapy for compulsive worrying about things that seldom happen.
Note to all (at least here in the US), no code official, fire marshal, fire inspector, building inspector, etc, has any authority to just enter your home against your will and do some random "check" of your home, stuff, layout, etc.
If you can't put it out in two minutes - GET OUT.
ABC type extinguisher.
NEVER would I look for a Halo extinguisher... I like breathing to much!
But by the time my foam layout is actually burning, I would be suggesting getting professional help from the FD, as by that point, it's too big for most home sized extinguishers anyways. As was mentioned, foam takes quite the fire to actually start burning. (Except when the fire can climb the standing foam.)
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
I suggested Co2 after doing a little research on google, a gaseous oxygen displacement extinguisher would be less destructive to scenery. And the blanket was for the resulting scenery fire once the power had been cut.
I did do some reading on the subject before commenting.
But others more experienced in this field would be a better source of info.
Steve
If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!
protection against fire
while we're on the subject......how about some working smoke alarms in all areas (except kitchen, bathroom and garage) of your home to alert you to the presence of fire when you're not looking
Inspired by Addiction
See more on my YouTube Channel
GraniteRailroaderTo the OP, my suggestion would be to keep a few 20 pound ABC dry-chemical type extinguishers handy. I don't know the whole size of your layout, but a 20 pounder is a good start. If you have a small hobby area where you're doing painting and other things, keeping a small 2.5 pounder (think kitchen type extinguisher) near by while you have paint/thinner/acetone/whatever out in the open is a good bet. Yes, the dry chemical agent can be corrosive, and will wreak havoc on your scenery. But we're talking about a FIRE. Would you rather lose the whole layout, building, house, whatever to a fire, or limit the damage to where you sprayed an extinguisher?
Good answer!
rrebell As far as foam goes, for the most part the stuff just melts. I used beaded foam for my last layout and tried to set it on fire. Tried direct electricl shorts, souldering irons and burnning matches of which only the burning match cought the foam on fire in the least bit and even then it went out as soon as the wood burned and never burned outside the area burning on the match (remember this is the most flamable of the foams.
As far as foam goes, for the most part the stuff just melts. I used beaded foam for my last layout and tried to set it on fire. Tried direct electricl shorts, souldering irons and burnning matches of which only the burning match cought the foam on fire in the least bit and even then it went out as soon as the wood burned and never burned outside the area burning on the match (remember this is the most flamable of the foams.
I've been a firefighter for almost 14 years now, with a background in Fire Protection Engineering, building code and life safety system compliance. Hated the FPE field as a career so I tried working in radio communications (RF / Public Safety two way radio), tried the railroad thing until I got furloughed, ran a tow company for five more years, and now I just make saw blades for a small manufacturer because it's easy.
You need to find an appropriately rated Type ABC extinguisher for your layout space. What do I mean by rated? Look at the type of materials you have "finished", "stored", and "near by" that you're going to attempt to protect with an extinguisher.
The "A" rating covers ordinary combustibles. The wood, paper, masking tape, most of the "building" type materials on your layout. The foam falls into the "A" rating in it's normal state, but if it startes to melt to liquid (such as when exposed to heat and certain chemicals) it falls into the "B" category.
If you're storing lots of paints, paint thinner, other flammable chemicals, and other things under your layout for model building, that's the "B" rating on the extinguisher.
The "C" Rating covers your CHARGED Electrical. Take power away and those electrical items are now "A" items.
Please, please, PLEASE do not attempt to find "HALON" anything for use in your home. Halotron is it's replacement, although much more costly than say your standard ABC Dry-Chemical type extinguisher.
NWP SWP Uhh, has anyone considered having a MAIN SWITCH that cuts all power to the layout and it's associated power draws, when you're not there cut the power ergo no fire risk as to if you're there and a fire happens is there a respirator that would filter the halon? (Edit: you would need an actual oxygen tank not a respirator, think of halon like water you put water in an empty bucket it displaces the air same with halon so a respirator doesn't work underwater or in halon.) Otherwise may I suggest a fire blanket? Use it to smother the flames?
Uhh, has anyone considered having a MAIN SWITCH that cuts all power to the layout and it's associated power draws, when you're not there cut the power ergo no fire risk as to if you're there and a fire happens is there a respirator that would filter the halon? (Edit: you would need an actual oxygen tank not a respirator, think of halon like water you put water in an empty bucket it displaces the air same with halon so a respirator doesn't work underwater or in halon.) Otherwise may I suggest a fire blanket? Use it to smother the flames?
Young Steven, your first message struck a few points that need to be corrected immediately. For a class C fire, your fire blanket is not going to stop the spread. The only way to stop the spread of an electrical fire is to de-energize the circuit... or the fire burns itself out when there's nothing left to burn. You pick.
Halon isn't a single product. There's multiple agents, multiple delivery methods (liquid vs air), and many systems such as server rooms, data centers, etc that still have it, the primary means of safety after discharge is simple evacuation.
Furthermore, you don't need an "oxygen tank". Please, friend, don't add things to this conversation that you have little to no experience with. You're out of your league on this one, respectfully.
A Co2 extinguisher is a better bet because you'll know to get out of there because you'll start choking and yawning but for maximum safety I'd use a blanket or a CO2 bomb for fire extinguishing, in the event of fire toss it towards the fire and run!
Again, this is bad information. A CO2 extinguisher doesn't contain enough product to rapidly disruspt your immediate atmosphere. And with products potential in the A, B, and C, fire classes, it wouldn't be my choice for an extinguishing agent. Most (if not all) CO2 extingishers have a 0 A rating, and are B:C only.
You're spreading bad information.
To the OP, my suggestion would be to keep a few 20 pound ABC dry-chemical type extinguishers handy. I don't know the whole size of your layout, but a 20 pounder is a good start. If you have a small hobby area where you're doing painting and other things, keeping a small 2.5 pounder (think kitchen type extinguisher) near by while you have paint/thinner/acetone/whatever out in the open is a good bet.
Yes, the dry chemical agent can be corrosive, and will wreak havoc on your scenery. But we're talking about a FIRE. Would you rather lose the whole layout, building, house, whatever to a fire, or limit the damage to where you sprayed an extinguisher?
Maintenance for the dry-chemical type extinguishers is pretty simple. Make sure the pin is in place. Make sure the extinguisher is charged (inspect the gage if equipped - should be in the green zone). Flip/Rotate the extinguisher to move the product around inside so it does not settle; if a metal bodied extinguisher, turn upside down and hit the bottom with a rubber mallet to break up any solidified product.
And for your viewing pleasure: Fire Extinguisher Safety
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For a typical electrical fire, I would pull the plug (or breaker) and use an ABC rated fire extinguisher. They are effective for electrical fires and typically use a dry chemical (Sodium Bicarbonate) which releases CO2 smoothering the fire and denying it oxygen.
As soon as the fire is out, evacuate. That foam releases toxic gas which is why it's against code.
Halon would work, but halon is used in the most extreme conditions where you are worried about electronics. And Halon will fill the air with non-breathable air. Halon is typically reserved for specialty fires like computer server rooms.
I wired AC circuits into the benchwork which splits into 3 circuits feeding power strips. Master power switch with indicator light built into benchwork readily visible when leaving the room and I always turn it off. Fire extinguisher kept on first floor in the garage. FYI.........Anyone with a Kidde fire extinguisher....there is a recall and free replacement. I had 2 unit’s replaced in December 2017. I had the original units for decades going back into the seventies. Google Kidde recall and see if your units are eligible as this effected millions of units due to mechanical failure to spray. They come Fedex with return label for your convenience. Pay particular attention to those soldering irons and stay safe. The conversation here has got me thinking about smoke detectors downstairs in garage.
CO2 is not so good on class A fires.
All fire extinguishers discharge at high power and will blow most of your scenery away.
No household extinguisher will work on class D or Class E fires, but then it is not likely that you will have any of these materials in your trainroom. Same gaurantee not offered on the realroads.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
rrinker Many years ago there was a web site wher ethey did variou burn tests of blue and pink foam. A hot soldering iron for example, cause the foam to melt back until the space around the heat source was enough that the edges were no longer above the melting point of the foam. They tried setting it on fire and failed in most any way tried.
Many years ago there was a web site wher ethey did variou burn tests of blue and pink foam. A hot soldering iron for example, cause the foam to melt back until the space around the heat source was enough that the edges were no longer above the melting point of the foam. They tried setting it on fire and failed in most any way tried.
I think you were thinking about scaletree.com. I found that site when i was checking out the subject. They basically concluded that blue/pink foam would burn but not on its own. You need to keep applying flame to burn it. Remove the flame and it would self extinguish.
Not meaning to poke anyone in the eye. I was unaware of the earlier discussion topics on the subject. My layout is NOT in my house. It is in a trailer in back yard of a rural unincorporated area with no building codes. Killing the power and smothering with a blanket may be my best approach unless the wooden structure somehow starts burning.
Paul D
N scale Washita and Santa Fe RailroadSouthern Oklahoma circa late 70's
I have a master switch, so nothing is on when I'm not in the room. It's just a power strip, but the on/off switch lights up in red when it's on. You can't miss it when you turn off the overhead lighting, as I leave the room.
Mike.
My You Tube
NWP SWP A Co2 extinguisher is a better bet because you'll know to get out of there because you'll start choking and yawning but for maximum safety I'd use a blanket or a CO2 bomb for fire extinguishing, in the event of fire toss it towards the fire and run!
I have used Co2 extinuishers without any issues..Don't know where you got your information from.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
A A,B,C Co2 fire extinguisher will handle any type of fire.
Don't go cheap,be sure to buy the ones with the gauge so you can monitor the pressure and have it refilled as needed.
As far as Halon..Remember this warning sign:
Halon=halo In the event of fire leave the room immediately!
BTW..Aim the extinguisher towards the bottom of the flames.
I have 3 60lb extinquishers. One by the door Where the master power switches are. One by the spray booth. And one in the far corner where the trip out is the longest. the layout has its own building. And the electrical i wired through a set of master switches so theree is no power past that point when not there. There is the breakers in the garage and a second master kill switch in the house. It does both the garage and railroad building
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space