Hi,
So I'm working on a loop-to-loop track plan with balloon reversals. Part of the plan I worked out also inolves switches coming off the loops, providing alternate exits to the balloon track. A train can either complete the loop and go back whence it came, or take the turnout and go somewhere else.
The question I have is, is that a feasible idea, or am I asking for an electrical headache. I'm okay with doing some unconventional wiring if I have to, but I'd rather know if I'm asking for eternal electrical headaches (or the just-plain-impossible) before I start laying track.
And no, putting the turnout outside the loop won't work because of space issues.
Thanks!
- Adam
When all else fails, wing it!
LonehawkThe question I have is, is that a feasible idea, or am I asking for an electrical headache.
Are you planning to use DCC or DC to power your layout?
What you want to do is easy with DCC.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
A picture is worth a thousand words. Can you post a diagram?
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
You perhaps have drawn a picture of your layout.
Now draw it again as a straight line shoeing all of the turnouts etc. Like you would see in the switch tower.
And that tells you whatever you need to know. Each turnout requires signals from the tower to allow a train to proceed, and THAT will also switch your power as needed.
So you have a simple reversing loop with one turn out.
A train enters the loop and when it comes to the end of the loop there is a red signal and it cannot proceed until the switch points are moved.
So each of the loop tracks has insulators to protect the loop, and the loop gets its powerfrom which ever end the switch is pointed at.
If you have more complication, which it sounds like you are looking at, the TOWER picture will help you to figure it out.
BTW: Real towers have separate levers for the switch points and for the signals. A fun practice to continue on your railroad.
GRS protocols use red levers for the signals and they are at either end of ther row of levers. Trains moving left to right through the plant have their signal levers on the left all the way through the plant. Trains moving right to left have all of their signals on the right end of the lever row.
The turnout levers run from left to right through the plant and are numbered in order. The switch machine number = the lever number. The plates on the signals show their lever numbers. So when a train is stopped waiting for a signal he can call the tower and give the number of the signal that he is waiting at and the tower can either align the plant for him and then clear his signal or else it can tell them that they are waiting for an incoming train from Westland.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
You just need to gap the leg of the turnout leaving the loop to "go somewhere else" so that the other two legs of the turnout are part of the reverse loop.
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrain You just need to gap the leg of the turnout leaving the loop to "go somewhere else" so that the other two legs of the turnout are part of the reverse loop. Rich
That's what I was thinking I'd need to do, Rich. Glad to see my noobishness didn't bite me on that.
I do plan on doing DCC with this, Carl, so I was hoping that would make it easier. For the record, (as well as Lion and MisterBeasley) here are the pics of what I plan to do.
This first one will have a turnout exiting the reverse loop to go to a (probably removable) staging area. This is the endpoint, with stacked loops. Staging will be accessed from the bottom loop:
And this second one loops around between the ends. I want to be able to route my train to either loop from here. Taking the turnout (back toward the spurs) makes it a reverse loop back to the station, and continuing on the main will go to the other end of the line. Hopefully, these images don't negate the helpful advice that I've already gotten. Thanks.
And this second one loops around between the ends. I want to be able to route my train to either loop from here. Taking the turnout (back toward the spurs) makes it a reverse loop back to the station, and continuing on the main will go to the other end of the line.
Hopefully, these images don't negate the helpful advice that I've already gotten. Thanks.
Hopefully, these images don't negate the helpful advice that I've already gotten.
Thanks.
As your apparently good instincts and logic are telling you, those should be just fine. The crossing in the first image will have to be either switchable or isolated and essentially dead, but the Code 83 variety from Atlas should do that...keep it electrically safe on each route. If you want it live, and it's not a 'dcc friendly' type of crossing/diamond, you'll need to have it gapped or joined with insulating joiners and wired by jumpers/feeders.
I assume you are using a digital reverser to control either loop. You probably know this already, but wherever in those loops your decoder is, it won't care when the phase under it gets switched over a hundredth of a second or whatever the interval is. The controlling breaker/reversing unit will care, though, if a metal tire bridges across the end-gaps when the rails are out of phase. It will instantly detect and align the rails for phase, and your decoder won't know a thing. So, this would apply on those 'extension's you would like to incorportate since they are within the controlled loop.
Lonehawk richhotrain You just need to gap the leg of the turnout leaving the loop to "go somewhere else" so that the other two legs of the turnout are part of the reverse loop. Rich That's what I was thinking I'd need to do, Rich. Glad to see my noobishness didn't bite me on that. I do plan on doing DCC with this, so I was hoping that would make it easier.
I do plan on doing DCC with this, so I was hoping that would make it easier.
selector As your apparently good instincts and logic are telling you, those should be just fine. The crossing in the first image will have to be either switchable or isolated and essentially dead, but the Code 83 variety from Atlas should do that...keep it electrically safe on each route. If you want it live, and it's not a 'dcc friendly' type of crossing/diamond, you'll need to have it gapped or joined with insulating joiners and wired by jumpers/feeders. I assume you are using a digital reverser to control either loop. You probably know this already, but wherever in those loops your decoder is, it won't care when the phase under it gets switched over a hundredth of a second or whatever the interval is. The controlling breaker/reversing unit will care, though, if a metal tire bridges across the end-gaps when the rails are out of phase. It will instantly detect and align the rails for phase, and your decoder won't know a thing. So, this would apply on those 'extension's you would like to incorportate since they are within the controlled loop.
That crossing (near the bottom of the image) is actually separated by about 3" of vertical space. There's two, stacked loops in there, so it does look like a crossing, but it isn't. The actual turnout section is near the top of that image, and will be on the lower loop.
Regardless, I would indeed be using a reverser, and I'm guessing I'd need to do the usual loop gapping/insulation, but I'm not sure about the turnout. Would I isolate the turnout as well? Completely? Only gap one end in the loop? Gap the end that leaves the loop and connects back to the main/yard?
richhotrain The key to the success of this proposed layout is to completely gap and isolate the two reverse loops, each requiring its own auto-reverser for trouble free operation. Good luck with your layout. Keep us posted with any issues that may arise and you lay track and wire the layout. Rich
The key to the success of this proposed layout is to completely gap and isolate the two reverse loops, each requiring its own auto-reverser for trouble free operation. Good luck with your layout. Keep us posted with any issues that may arise and you lay track and wire the layout.
Thanks for the pointers, and I surely will!
Lonehawk That crossing (near the bottom of the image) is actually separated by about 3" of vertical space. There's two, stacked loops in there, so it does look like a crossing, but it isn't. The actual turnout section is near the top of that image, and will be on the lower loop. Regardless, I would indeed be using a reverser, and I'm guessing I'd need to do the usual loop gapping/insulation, but I'm not sure about the turnout. Would I isolate the turnout as well? Completely? Only gap one end in the loop? Gap the end that leaves the loop and connects back to the main/yard?
I don't see why you'd need a gap at that top turnout..IF you are feeding what lies beyond it from the loop. If you will feed the entire switching facility, part of which we can see to the right of the turnout, separately, with its own feeders coming off the bus, then you would need to place gaps, but at the points end of that 'throat'.
selector I don't see why you'd need a gap at that top turnout..IF you are feeding what lies beyond it from the loop. If you will feed the entire switching facility, part of which we can see to the right of the turnout, separately, with its own feeders coming off the bus, then you would need to place gaps, but at the points end of that 'throat'.