Hello everyone:
One of the next choices that our club has to make in building our new layout is how to control the turnouts. I would like to hear what you recommend as well as what to avoid.
As far as how to actually move the throw bars, we are already looking at Tortoises, Blue Point manual controllers and Caboose Industries ground throws. I would like to hear your opinions of those options as well as any others that are out there. We have already decided that we are not going to use twin coil 'snap' switch motors, and the frogs will be powered.
In addition to the types of switch motors I would like your advice on how to control yard ladders. In our case the main yard has six tracks and is double ended. I found one article in the August 2011 MR (pgs. 58 - 61).
Of course, the other issue is cost. Although most of the electronic solutions seem to be pretty slick, I don't think the club is prepared to spend $15+ per turnout just for control. We will have about 75 turnouts.
Thanks,
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Hi there. Probably outside budgets but I use DCC Concepts Cobalt IP Digital motors. These are Tortoise type motors but with a DCC accessory decoder and frog polarity management built in. I connect the frog polarity connection to power two colour LEDs (red and green) to show switch settings.
You can read about them on my blog - recently HERE
Long Haired DavidA.K.A. David Penningtonmain man on the Sunset and North Eastern R.R.http://www.gmrblog.co.ukfrom the UK
Hey Dave-
The original plan for my current layout build was to have manually conrolled Peco turnouts. We've used them on a club layout, and they have withstood at least 10 or 20 years of use (and abuse . . . club layout). The other original plan was to install a rudimentary signal system "sometime in the near future", and that might require block detection and automated turnout control to be installed in the near future as well.
I figured that while everything was clean and open, maybe I could install Tortoise machines on four turnouts now. Just as a test. That got me to thinking that I could install signals for the four plants now. And while I was at it, I might install the Digitrax BDL168 and SE8C cards now as well. And the wiring and so forth. So, I did.
The first four turnout motors were pretty easy to install and they worked perfectly well, and I thought, "Hey, neat!" So I added a few more. One nice feature of the SE8C is that in addition to signal control, it serves as a stationary decoder allowing remote operation of slow-motion turnout motors (such as the Tortoises) from the hand held throttle. It also allows control of turnouts via momentary push buttons mounted on the fascia or control panel. In my case, I was able to easily wire up the push bottons to control a set of crossovers from either side on the middle peninsula.
One thing led to another . . . There are 42 turnouts on the upper level, 24 of which have Tortoise motors. There will be a lot on the lower level (not sure how many), but only the benchwork and the decks are constructed down there right now. The trackage and whatnot will come sometime in the near future.
Regarding costs . . . The Tortoises cost about $15 each purchased in 6-packs. The SE8Cs cost about $90 each and control 8 turnouts; that works out to about $12 per turnout. The momentary contact push buttons (you might not use them) are pretty cheap on Amazon-dot-com. Wiring was free, stripped from a surplus 1000-foot spool of CAT5 twisted pair ethernet cable. Signals are pretty expensive: double head signal masts, base connectors, 10-wire flat ribbon cable, ribbon connectors, and whanot . . .
I am about as high-tech as anyone, but I am not nearly as experienced in MR electronic stuff as many here on this forum. I've never really designed and built a system as complex as I am now undertaking (our club had one Super Guru to handle all that stuff), but the task is not as daunting as it first seems. Contrary to many opinions, the Digitrax instructions are not all that ridiculous. And it has been fun. The challenge certainly adds to the enjoyment of this hobby.
Good luck.
Robert
LINK to SNSR Blog
And after pricing this stuff out you can see why I abandoned Tortoises and went with servos. The servo AND electronics are less than $15 per turnout.
If anyone had done the slightest bit of experimentation with Arduino - Geoff Bunza over at MRH has several articles now that show the hookup AND give yoou the software, one Arduini os less than $15, and can control 12 or more servos, that cost about $1.50 each. Or fewer servos in trade for pushbuttons to operate them, instead of using DCC control (or along WITH DCC control). There are several of us here who could modify one of Geoff's programs to set it up so you have one button per yard track plus an indicator LED to shoow which one is selected - in other words, you want to use track 5, you push the button for track 5, and all turnouts will be lined to route the train to track 5, and the light for track 5 will go on.
It sounds like a lot of complex wizardry but really it boils down to a bunch of If This, Then That - literally the code looks like:
If button 5 is pressed
Set servo 1 to reverse
Set servo 2 to normal
Set servo 3 to normal
Set servo 4 to normal
Set servo 5 to reverse
Turn LED 5 on
The "set servo to reverse" part is handled by canned code that you don't have to write.
If you have anyone who is a logical thinker, who may have programmed in BASIC before, or some other language, they can pick this up pretty quick. Maintainence is pretty much a non-issue, with various Arduinos being more like in the $5 category, you doon't repair one when it fails (though I might - except my one attempt thus far was a major failure), you load the code on a new one and swap it in (all plugs in, no soldering). You would of course have to modify the program if you added or remove tracks.
Commercial options do exist, just not at the under $2 for turnout complete price. But servo + controlling electronics, with or without a DCC option, all with local buttons or toggles, complete for no more than the cost of a Tortoise alone. Some of these can easily use a rotary switch to select tracks as an alternative to pushbuttons or toggle switches. Some include indicator LEDs and there are several frog power options, from relays controlled by the electronics to the simplicty of a snap switch (lever switch, not the Atlas product) glued to the side of the servo.
Again this is a relatively new type of thing and scares some who've never used anything but a twin coil or a Tortoise, but they worked out very well on my previous layout and I have no reason to not use the same again on my new one, although this time I am building my own controllers instead of using the commercial ones. In fact I just got done stripping the servos off the pieces of the old layout - only thing I'm salvaging, the rest is being hauled away next weekend. Along with lots of other junk. Step 1 to getting the basement gutted and rebuilt.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Randy........
Two requests.....first how are you issuing commands to the servo modules, and second, can you post some of your simpler code so the learning curve to use the modules is less?
Google Geoff Bunza, there are links to almost all of his projects. They link to the web site of an MR competitor so I won't post the direct links here.
The circuits are pretty much all the same, a servo has 3 pins, power, ground, and signal. Power and ground go to, well poower and ground, and the signal goes to the Arduino. Most of the 14 digital pins are fair game, in the software you define which servo is which pin, so that when the program says to move servo2, it know that means the one on pin 4.
Geoff's examples include the schematics and the software. Some of it is free downloads that you must be a subscriber to download, but it's free.
My design I will be sharing the hardware and code for anyone that wants to duplicate it. I will NOT be making or selling anything, but if someone wants to duplicate what I've done, go for it. My devices are not so high density (though I may make something different for my yard), each board will control just 2 turnouts, but that includes 2 buttons for each one, plus 2 indicator LEDs foor each one, and a relay for frog power on each. The other pins are for connection to a CMRI based controller board for remote control and remote lockout (so the buttons don't work unless the dispatcher enables them). Preliminary schematic here:
http://www.readingeastpenn.com/images/TurnoutController2.pdf
Question for Randy, what kind of servos and where are you getting them?
For me, I designed my layout so that turnouts that would be maunal on the prototype would be close enough to the layout edge for ground throw operation, but I still need electrical switching for my wiring scheme, signals and powered frogs.
So I use sub minature slide switches, set right in the roadbed at the throw bar, with little wire springs I make connecting the handle to the throwbar. The small screwdrivers I use for uncoupling also operate the manual turnouts.
So yards, industries, etc, are all ground throws, I don't worry about the appearance, it is just a very small little "blob" where the switch stand would be.
If it is a yard that needs dwarf signals, the switches provide the info to light them.
The mainline turnouts are CTC controlled and powered with Tortoise machines. Those machines are controlled by relays so that I have lots of contacts for signal logic. The relays also allow for easy matrix setups for one button route control.
The tower control panels have lighted pushbuttons that show the route selected. Push one button and all the necessary turnouts move to the correct route.
Because of the typical motor control push button station wiring I use, any given route or turnout can be controlled on as many different control panels as you want. In my case a local panel and the CTC panel. Both panels show the route selected and the CTC dispatcher can disable the local panel controls which will still illuminate to show the current route.
The ice cube relays I use only cost me a few dollars each, and can still be had surplus or new for $5 or less. A complex interlocking will require about one relay per turnout.
The pushbuttons I use have built in LED lights.
Sheldon
I use the little 9G servos as well, plenty of power to move even a Peco with the spring still in it, or a Fast Tracks style all-rail turnout (no hinge). They are all over the place on ebay from any number of Chinese sources, usually in packs of 6 for about $10 shipped. I have yet to have one go bad, and yet to have one DOA.
I like to mount thm so they have an over-center action like a Tortoise - so when fully in position it's really the springiness of the music wire holding the points closed, since servos that can;t reach the commanded travel point will buzz and overheat. The latest one I am trying doesn't even need the travel range to be set, you just run the servo from minimum to maximum. As such, I wasn;t including any settings for this in my controller, outside of actually editing the program. I do have a pair of jumpers to set the srvo to the center position to make it easier to physically attach the servo and mount under the table and line it up with the throwbar hole.
I did once try a smaller one, they're either 4.5G or 4G. The idea was to mount it directly under the turnout like a Peco motor - it works very well, but the downside is having to carve out the space before laying the turnout. The advantage is the distance is so short you cna use rather fine wire and still impart enouhg force to securely hold the points. Plus they won't stick down below even 1/2" plywood let alone plywood with some other roadbed like cork or homasote. In the end I just stuck with the 9G type and mounted them Tortoise style under the layout - they are however a fraction of the size of a Tortoise.
Randy, I like the idea of the small size of the servos, but that seems like just as much wiring for two turnouts as I do using simple relay logic?
I can have unlimited control stations
I can have a master location lock out other control stations
My lighted pushbuttons show the route
The relays provide the signal logic and frog power directly with extra contacts
Here are a few examples:
The diagram with the wye shows how three relays provide all the logic needed with contacts left over for other stuff.
Robert, Randy, Mel and Sheldon:
Thanks for the suggestions, and the interesting discussion back and forth.
One thing that I should have mentioned in the first post is that whatever system we use has to be understandable for current and future members of the club. I love the Arduino concept but if I were to say the word "Arduino" to the club members most of them would respond with a blank stare.
Sheldon, your wiring system does sound like something we should consider. However, I don't understand some of the components/symbols on your schematics. For example, you have a component labelled 'R1' and then you have a component labelled 'R1' with a circle around it. There are also several symbols with two vertical lines with an angled line across them. On some of these symbols the angled line is from upper left to lower right but on others it is from upper right to lower left. I don't recognize the symbol at all, but then again, I'm no electrical wizard. Could you post a key explaining what each of the symbols mean?
hon30critter Robert, Randy, Mel and Sheldon: Thanks for the suggestions, and the interesting discussion back and forth. One thing that I should have mentioned in the first post is that whatever system we use has to be understandable for current and future members of the club. I love the Arduino concept but if I were to say the word "Arduino" to the club members most of them would respond with a blank stare. Sheldon, your wiring system does sound like something we should consider. However, I don't understand some of the components/symbols on your schematics. For example, you have a component labelled 'R1' and then you have a component labelled 'R1' with a circle around it. There are also several symbols with two vertical lines with an angled line across them. On some of these symbols the angled line is from upper left to lower right but on others it is from upper right to lower left. I don't recognize the symbol at all, but then again, I'm no electrical wizard. Could you post a key explaining what each of the symbols mean? Thanks, Dave
Dave, these are all standard symbols for electrical controls, going back to the 1920's or before.
The circles with letter or number inside are the relay coil.
The parallel lines are the relay contacts, if it has a diagonal across it, it is a normally closed contact. So a contact labled "R1" is controlled by relay coil "R1", etc.
When you see a normally open contact, and a normally closed contact labled the same with a common connection between them, that is/can be a "form C" contact, common on relays, like a single pole, double throw switch.
This is "old tech" if you have anyone in your group with industrial motor control experiance they will understand the drawing.
And I can send more info, that was just what I had scanned and handy as an example.
Also I should note the the drawing labled for a single turnout also works for a crossover with a few additional connections for a second switch motor and possibly extra push buttons.
This system is very versital and can be tailored to any track arrangement just like any solid state system. It can do yard ladders and complex interlockings with one button selections in nearly any case.
Once there are two or more turnouts, you only need one relay per turnout.
For your purposes, yoour system may be better than servos - but mainly because route selection is part of your MZL control system. When turnout control is completely isolated from any power control, it becomes a different story.
The servo drivers can and should be considered a black box. In that case, the wiring couldn't be simpler. Two wires in for power, and the servos all connect with a 3 pin plug and header.
Dave, if "most" of the club would glaze over at the word "arduino", that tells me there are some who DO understand them. The key to longevity is documentation - as time goes on, the number of people who understand the device will only go up, but without documentation, if those who created the configuration are no longer there, it will be tough to figure out. At the same time, I see no need to tell members at large the details of what's under the layout - what they need to know is that if they want to go on a certain track, they push the button for that track. When the light turns green, that means they can go. What happens behind the scenes to make that happen - the wiring and technical committees should know. We have the same thing going on with various RR-CirKits block detectors and signal drivers. We have some members that after nearly 10 years of the layout being DCC still can;t figure out how to punch in the number on the side of their loco, but the majority have no problems running trains and following signals, despite not having the slightest clue about how DCC works, or how the signals get changed. They just follow the lights. I should probbaly get more involved, the original DCC guy recently passed away unexpectedly - no, it wasn't me because I didn't have the time to put in to make every meeting and every work session, let alone every exhibition. The previous chairman has also stepped down and he was the one who made the entire JMRI PanelPro setup for the dispatcher, so I'm not sure who's handling things lately. The two who are no longer there weren't the only ones trained to hold the dispatcher job, so there are others who know how to RUN the panel, but I doubt there is anyone who knows how to fix anything. Putting the layout together is easy, everything is color-coded Power Pole connectors. And it's all documented - that is the real key. Two of the initial creators are no longer with the group yet the shows do go on because enough knowledge was passed along to make it all work.
So I wouldn't be scared of stepping outside the box a little here. The whole point of Dr. Bunza's articles is to somewhat do what Dr. Chubb did for the signal and detection realm - show that you DON'T have to be an electronic genius to make use of this stuff. Maybe you need some experience to initially create it - both are electrical engineers and at least in Bruce Chubb's case, have been heavily involved in industrial control systems. But the end users of these products are not all skilled engineers or programmers. I won't deny, it helps to have an understanding of these things, but to use already developed hardware and software, I don't think that's so. Check the CMRI group on Yahoo - there are people there that clearly have no clue how to program, yet following Bruce's examples, and maybe with a little help from a friend, they have their layouts operating with CTC consoles and full signalling. Check out Geoff Bunza's articles and blog. I'm a hardware guy, an EE and not a CE or CompSci, but I've always felt that software is a whole lot more flexible than hardware. That's the approach with microcontrollers, or even the mostly 'dumb' signal board with JMRI controlling them. Rather than design logic using various logic gate circuits, the logic is in the form of program statements, which is most any high level language are close to plain English, and keeping the hardware very generic. This too is true of the CMRI system, the boards themselves are simply inputs and outputs. They do no calculations on their own. Someone pushes a button connected to input #5, unless the computer program is looking to see if input #5 goes active, nothing will happen. The signal LED connected to output #11 will not change. When the program tells the board to turn output #11 on, then the LED will light up. The board is simple and generic, there is no need to even break out a soldering iron to install it and connect it to the signals and turnouts. Each board is exactly like any other. The code is what makes things happen. Like DCC decoders - outside of form factor, most decoders are just like any other decoder. If you want the purple wire to turn on when the loco is going forward and you press the F3 button, you have to tell the decoder to do this, but what decoder it is really doesn't matter, as long as it does have a purple wire.
Randy,
And that is what it comes down to, hardware vs software.
Because I use hardwire logic, I don't need the redudant relays for the frog, I have spare 5A contacts.
I don't need the information buss.
I build the relay panels on the bench, just like you write code at a desk, but again, looking at your diagram, you have just as much wire as me.
I don't need a "pin" for each addtional pushbutton station, they just daisy chain in parallel.
I have wired and programed PLC's, going all the way back to their inception in the early 80's. Ardunio is just the latest generation PLC, yes finally very afordable.
Yes, some of my turnout relays also direct track power, and they power the frogs. So regarding powered frogs, I do with three wires what take you a whole sub system and addtional board.
My CTC, detection and signaling is exactly like Chubb or Ravenscroft, series logic from the detector, thru the turnout and dispatcher choices, to the signals. Simple versions of the same circuits used by the prototype for 90 years....
Yes, to change things I have to rewire....I'm a good planner, I don't make many changes.....
I have written code, I would rather not. I have built relay panels since age 20, I don't mind it one bit.
My costs are similar per turnout, $2 for the average relay I use, you still need the same buttons, LED's, wire, etc. I need less resistors, caps, etc. My power supplies are simpler, two 12V transformers and a couple rectifiers create my split 24V/12V power for control circuits, switch motor power, and signal power.
On my home layout, I tried a number of different techniques. For twin-coils, I used simple SPDT toggles on a control panel. I built a number of separate panels around the benchwork to be close enough to the turnouts to see them, since my SPDT toggles were left in the center position and did not indicate turnout position. For my subways where the turnouts were not visible, I used latching relays and LEDs.
Later, I switched to Tortoise machines, and controlled them with DPDT toggles which did give me position indication at the panel. That's a big advantage.
The last phase of my layout was a separate physical bench, connected only by a liftoff section. Since I no longer had a turnout power bus there, I decided to go with DCC control. I put LEDs in to a control panel so I could see how the turnouts were set. My mistake, though, was using one of the simpler, cheaper DCC turnout decoders that did not allow for both throttle and panel control. After running this scheme for a while, I realized that I don't personally like using DCC for my turnouts and really would prefer a panel.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Keep in mind that is an electronic schematic and most of the lines seen on that drawing will be PC board traces, not wires. Wires for this part of the system will consist of an RJ45 cable from the control panel to the board for each turnout handling the pushbuttons adn the indicator lights for each turnout. No, that does not need 8 wires, but by using a twisted pair for each signal it aids in noise immunity, and RJ45 cables are common off the shelf items. The board will have screw terminals for the frog power. The servos plug in via their 3 pin plugs. Power to run the whole thing comes in with a pair of screw terminals. ANd one other RJ45 cable connects this board to the main controller.
Also - this device is for mainline turnouts in a given control point. Other places that will never need dispatcher control, like my yard, will have a much simplified circuit (read that as, higher density). Since the logic for the master control are not needed, I can control more servos with the same chip. I MIGHT also go with the method of attaching a microswitch to the servo for frog power, rather than the relay. In its simplest form, as seen in Geoff Bunza's designs, it is possible to get one Arduino (the chip in my circuit is the Atmel ATMega328, same as used in the Arduino Uno, Nano, and Micro) to drive at least 9 servos with buttons, sacrificing indicator LEDs, although it's easy and cheap enough to glue 2 microswitches to each servo, which effectively makes it a Tortoise with 2 sets of SPDT contacts. Since a prebuilt Arduino Nano is about $3, and the servos are about $2 each, you can see the per turnout cost is greatley reduced with servos.
Also note that since there are no relays in my track drive, being DCC, there are none I can just piggyback off of for the turnouts or frog power. The simplified "just moves the servos" circuit could be substituted for the Tortoise in your system.
rrinker Keep in mind that is an electronic schematic and most of the lines seen on that drawing will be PC board traces, not wires. Wires for this part of the system will consist of an RJ45 cable from the control panel to the board for each turnout handling the pushbuttons adn the indicator lights for each turnout. No, that does not need 8 wires, but by using a twisted pair for each signal it aids in noise immunity, and RJ45 cables are common off the shelf items. The board will have screw terminals for the frog power. The servos plug in via their 3 pin plugs. Power to run the whole thing comes in with a pair of screw terminals. ANd one other RJ45 cable connects this board to the main controller. Also - this device is for mainline turnouts in a given control point. Other places that will never need dispatcher control, like my yard, will have a much simplified circuit (read that as, higher density). Since the logic for the master control are not needed, I can control more servos with the same chip. I MIGHT also go with the method of attaching a microswitch to the servo for frog power, rather than the relay. In its simplest form, as seen in Geoff Bunza's designs, it is possible to get one Arduino (the chip in my circuit is the Atmel ATMega328, same as used in the Arduino Uno, Nano, and Micro) to drive at least 9 servos with buttons, sacrificing indicator LEDs, although it's easy and cheap enough to glue 2 microswitches to each servo, which effectively makes it a Tortoise with 2 sets of SPDT contacts. Since a prebuilt Arduino Nano is about $3, and the servos are about $2 each, you can see the per turnout cost is greatley reduced with servos. Also note that since there are no relays in my track drive, being DCC, there are none I can just piggyback off of for the turnouts or frog power. The simplified "just moves the servos" circuit could be substituted for the Tortoise in your system. --Randy
Randy, I understand.
Most of my wiring is "on the relay boards" which are decentralized and grouped by tower/interlocking.
CAT5 cable handles pushbutton locations and other control interfaces.
And yes I take advantage of the contacts on the switch machine.
My non CTC turnouts are manual, but my yard does have a complex power routing scheme that allows two locos to work the yard, one from each end, with out any block controls.....
rrinkerDave, if "most" of the club would glaze over at the word "arduino", that tells me there are some who DO understand them.
Uh, I think I was trying to be polite when I said "most". I will ask if any members have Arduino knowledge at the meeting on Tuesday night, but I won't be suprised if I don't get any responses.
The real bottom line for this club is that most of the members seem to just want to watch their trains go round and round. We discussed dispatcher control on Monday night and we came to the conclusion that we are not going to put in a central control panel. Our first goal once the layout is up and running will be to have someone controlling train movement by verbal command. We will also likely institute a card program to make things more interesting. That will be a big leap from where the club is now. One leap at a time.
Having said that, we still need to decide on how we will control things like the yard ladders. That brings us all the way back to the discussion of diode matrices and rotary switches etc. We want to make the system as simple as possible.
I have to make a confession. After all the discussion of Arduinos and rotary switches etc., and the various wiring diagrams, I am overwhelmed. I'm going to have to sit back and study your suggestions for a while to see if I can better understand what you have been telling me. Right now my brain is totally muddled.
Ignore my circuit and the last few posts with Sheldon, as what I am doing is far from what you are dooing at the club. You need to look at Geoff Bunza's articles to see the simple press this button to line the switch option. Or commercial versions like what Tam Valley has, no coding, no circuit building, it all just plugs in, no soldering, but it does cost signifanctly more than DIY.
Actually, in relation to the conversation with Sheldon - I'm doing all this DIY stuff because I enjoy it - I'm not even using off the shelf CMRI components for the control system, I'm designing and building my own, loosely based on Seth Neumann's Arduino node. But, for the "not a lot of wires" solutiooon, there are the commercial products like the Tam Valley Singlets I used on my previous layout. There's one small board, about an inch andf a half square, that contains the pushbuttons and indicator LEDs. 2 screw terminals provide power - either fixed voltage for local control only, or DCC to add the option of DCC control, and there is a 3 pin connection for the servo to plug in to. Couldn't be simpler. And the servo works like an LED - plug it in backwards, and it just doesn't work, it doesn't fry itself or the controller. Just flip the plug if it doesn't move.
Dave,
It seems that your group has a couple of objectives: One is that they want things to be simple, the other is they need the turnout controls to be inexpensive.
My suggestion would be to try to finesse the second part of the equation and focus on the simple. Keep in mind that any electric option is going to require a certain amount of complexity. There will have to be a power buss for the machines and the panels and frogs will have to be wired up. Any kind of through routing diode matrix or other logic circuitry to operate groups of turnouts will also add another layer of more complicated wiring.
As for cost, turnout control has never been especially inexpensive when you go to motors or other automatic options. I managed the cost on my layout by buying motors on the cheap when I found deals on them. It took me years to get them all installed and I was able to spread out the cost over time.
I would go with tortoises and have a couple of bake sales to raise the cash for them. They are straight forward and pretty simple to operate and install. You won’t get all 75 turnouts installed at once so there will be time to spread out the financial burden. If you need to get the turnouts up and running before you can afford the motors, obtain some old ground throws and install them temporarily until they can be replaced with the tortoises.
I wouldn’t use caboose type ground throws as a permanent solution in a club environment - they won’t give you the needed contacts (easily) for the frogs and they encourage operators to reach into the scene where a stray sleeve or hand can cause damage. Of course there are workarounds – the throws can be mounted at the edge of the scene on the fascia, there are throws with contacts and there are the slide switch throws, but the complexity goes up with these options.
As for the servos, they are clearly a viable option but they may be a bit more complicated install and set-up than your group wants to undertake at this time.
Hang in there,
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
For manual control, I like the Bitter Creek Models metal throws. http://bittercreekmodels.com/page11.html
Here's one in service on my layout. https://www.flickr.com/photos/wp8thsub/12669807894/sizes/c/
Rob Spangler
Dave:
The Pine Ridge club in Oshawa uses manual peco turnouts as they came from the box. About a foot of track past the end of the turnout is powered from the toe of the turnout, trying to cut down on the number of turnouts entered with the points set wrong.
As a clever young fellow pointed out to me several years ago any visitor can tell what manual throw turns which turnout, looking a large/complicated/poorly done/whatever control panels can be more difficult.
Rob:
Interesting ground throw, but I don't see any auxilliary contacts. How do you control frog polarity, or do you not power your frogs?
Same question. What does the club do to control frog polarity?
davidmurrayany visitor can tell what manual throw turns which turnout,
Good point!
Dave, short on time now, later I will post more details on my use of a sub minature slide switch asa ground throw.
Obviously it provides contacts for the frog polarity.
There's always Frog Juicers - but there go costs again.
Servos are SIGNIFICANTLY less expensive than Tortoises, even if you go commercial (so no building circuits or writing code). You cna get the complete setup, with the servo, already in a mount that installs like a Tortoise, with a switch for frog polarity, and the control circuit with both pushbuttons for local operation and a DCC decoder built in, for the cost of a bare Tortoise. There's no soldering. For the Tortoise you then need to add the cost of the connector so you don't have to solder, the switches, and any fascia indicators. And you still wouldn;t have DCC control. Not that I am an advocate of direct DCC control - I find it awkward no matter WHAT brand of DCC system you use, to swap between train control and turnout control. I use the DCC control for dispatcher control, not throwing turnouts from the throttle. Use it or not, it's there and ready in the servo option.
Back in the days before all the electronics stuff from china, we used to use slide switches and piano wire to control turnouts, very cheap back then, even cheaper now. Bet some of you tecno guys could do a hybred with slide switches and cheap servos.
hon30critterInteresting ground throw, but I don't see any auxilliary contacts. How do you control frog polarity, or do you not power your frogs?
The Bitter Creek throw has no provision built in for powering the frog or changing polarity. The only frogs I have powered currently belong to Atlas #8s. For those I use Tam Valley frog juicers.