Hello All,
I have been reading up and learning about DCC wiring to add to my layout. I have just finished laying track and am about to start wiring. I am going to be using an NCE Powercab.
My Question is how do i go about finding what decoders to use for my current locos? I have tried multiple times to find a good answer to what I am looking for and cannot figure out what i need to order.
The Loco i will be converting is an Athearn Genesis DCC Ready SD70MAC. It comes equiped with the 9 pin and 8 pin options. What i am looking for in a decoder is the following.
Thanks in advance for the help i am slowly getting the DCC stuff, I just need a little help on ordering so i dont get the wrong stuff to learn with on my first install.
Hi Spartan Cook:
I don't know of a website that has all of the information needed to choose a decoder in one place. Hopefully somebody will have some suggestions in that regard.
There are three popular sound decoder manufacturers.
Loksound (ESU) has the proper sound file for an SD70MAC but not exactly in the format you want. The Loksound Select decoder version AUX6 comes with an 8 pin harness and the speaker wires have to be soldered. The specific sound file you want is #73431. Most dealers will load the sound file for you. If you are going to convert to LED lights you will have to solder resistors in series with them. You may need resistors with the Athearn bulbs too. I'm not sure.
TCS has a 9 pin decoder with the EMD 710 sound file but you still have to solder wires to the speakers and for functions F3 and F4 if you want to use them. Their sound file is from a turbo engine. I don't know if that is correct for your particular locomotive. Resistors are required if you are using LEDs. The TCS WOW121 can be used with their GEN MB1 Motherboard which comes wired for use with the Athearn 1.5 v bulbs, and there are also resistors already in place for LEDs. The Motherboard has the Keep Alive built into it.
Soundtraxx offers its new Tsunami2 decoders with the proper sound in a replacement board format. In other words, instead of attaching your decoder to the existing circuit board, you remove the original board entirely. The wires for the most common connections are attached to the decoder using small plastic clips. Unfortunately, I believe that soldering is required for connecting the speaker(s) and auxilliary functions. Some people don't like to rely on the plastic clips so they solder all of the connections. Resistors are required for LEDs and 1.5 v bulbs.
Personally I have decided to use Loksound Select decoders exclusively simply because they run great right out of the box. They will adjust their settings to match your specific locomotive's motor performance with just a couple of button pushes. Their motor control is excellent. They do not generate heat.
I cannot comment on the TCS or Tsunami2 decoders because I have no experience with them.
Regards,
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Also consider how your interests, skills and learning curve may proceed in this arena. Plus how many locos you may adjust yourself (vs. purchase DCC w/sound).
Here's my example. My first loco was a HO Genesis GP9 w/sound, so I could install my NCE and my track and learn how DCC worked and test the track. I then obtained a DCC ready RS-2 that had a 8-pin spot on the board to simply plug in a motor only controller (I chose a TCS). Easy peasey.
Wanting a nifty fleet of UP locos and finding many types not in current release but new in the box on EBay, I've acquired quite a few to convert to DCC with sound. One point is that this has become one of my favorite aspects of the hobby.
So, next was adding a decoder with speakers to a DC E6. Basis what I was reading here, there seemed a preference toward TCS or ESU LokSound (maybe others) for motor control. At that time, I also liked the rather wide variety of LokSound sound files available (and the possibility to update the sound file with a LokProgrammer) so I decided to concentrate on LokSound Selects. Note that the TCS WowSounds were not out yet, which would also be candidates for latest quality in sounds. Anyway, I followed the advice of some and ripped out the E6 DC light board and hard wired the Select in the available space. The E6 had tons of room for speakers above the weight with some grinding of the weight, so I added dual 1.1" HiBass speakers. I also replaced bulbs with LEDs. The product was impressive.
As the journey continued, I got into converting to DCC w/sound locos like RS1, GP30, SD7, SD50/60, GE Dash 9, etc. It involved making room for speakers, with my goal being dual 1.1" HiBass in the cab units, and 2-4 microspeakers (in easily made styrene enclosures) as space could be made. I found out which microspeakers might be preferred. I also found an acquaintance that has a milling machine, the easy way to significantly modify a weight to make speaker room.
Along the way, I decided I disliked some of my factory DCC sound setups and attacked them. The GP9 had very poor sound quality with the older Tsunami, so I added a Select with twin microspeakers as an improvement. Plus a capacitor as the loco had a few spots on the layout where it would hiccup where other locos did not. And I changed out a Bachmann Sound Value Tsunami because that variety could not be set to keep sound off (until desired) when the layout was powered up so I switched to a Select. Early on, I did put some earlier Tsunami's in a couple of 2-8-0s, before I got into the LokSounds which I now strongly prefer.
I more recently enhanced my program track setup to optionally use the NCE or a new LokProgrammer. The LokProgrammer allows (with a PC) uploading new sound files. One example was when the E-units dual motor simulation file was released, so those got updated. Another example is the recent upgrade of LokSound sound files to Full Throttle operation (see their website).
The above story to suggest that as you address this project, look to learn what may be of interest ahead. I had a definite learning curve and am enjying the journey.
A good place to look at install aspects for specific locos is the TCS installation pages; i.e., the photos are useful for any decoder choise you may make. Do consider weight modification for speaker room if needed, if the loco weight will not become too light. Suggest you consider whether you will prefer a certain line of decoders, and take a hard look at TCS and LokSound. On a specific install project, someone at Tonys Trains (or elsewhere) can give advice on options.
Soldering is a skill that come reasonably quickly, mostly just requires some care and patience. An ordinary pencil iron can be used, pointy tip and moderate power preferred. An adjustable solder station (about $55) is a most worthwhile upgrade if you will be installing decoders and speakers.
Good luck.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
Dave - Thanks for the overview of the three different decoders, that was immensly helpful to narrow down my search. I am really liking the features of the TCS decoders as they have the built in keep alive capacitors (I put in all insulfrog turnouts on my layout).
Paul- Your story of your progression within DCC is something i believe i will ultimately parrallel. At first i would like this initial installation to be relatively easy. I am not afraid of soldering by any means I just would like to be able to practice first on some ebay models that are not as expensive as my DCC ready loco. I model the Alaska RR so it is rare to find a loco that comes with DCC and Sound to start off with. At this point I only have two locos that I plan on using going forward my athearn genesis SD70MAC that is DCC ready and a Bachman GP40 that i believe is not DCC ready.
I want to get the SD70MAC up and running to learn DCC with and continue to test out my track configuration. Eventually i would like to Upgrade the GP40 and all the other locos that I am able to come across.
SpartanCook:
Sounds like the TCS with Keep Alive would be your best bet. One of the few complaints I have about the Loksound Selects is that attaching their 'Power Pack' keep alives is a royal PITA!
If you have trouble finding space for the TCS Keep Alive don't forget that you can take the Keep Alives apart and spread the capacitors throughout the locomotive wherever there is space. Just remember to keep the polarity correct or things will go boom! I just realized that TCS offers the GEN MB1 Motherboard for use in Athearn Genesis locomotives with a WOW 121 decoder. The Motherboard has the Keep Alive built right into it. Neat set up and very easy to install.
I edited my first post to reflect the updated information.
Here is a link to the install at TCS.
http://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Installation_Pictures/HO_Scale/Athearn/SD70MAC%20WK/SD70MAC_WK.htm
Suggested by SoundTraxx. No stay alive though.
http://www.soundtraxx.com/dsd/tsunami2/products/tsuPNP.php
Take your time looking through both sites. I am sure LokSound has info. I use Google a lot to search for suitable information.
I did not see anything up to date with LokSound and stay alive though many are turning to stay alive in SoundTraxx and LokSound installs. Many depend on experience. DCC and stay alive is still evolving.
Below is a link for info about stay alive, keep alive. Different names for different companies.
If you want more info, click on link at bottom of link.
http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/mainnorth/alive.htm
No idea your level of DCC experience.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Rich- Thank you for the link to installing on my loco. I was looking at the other WOW decoder with the 9 pin connection and did not see this kit at all.
It is quite nice to have the whole kit together with the speaker for the price of the other decoder. I am definitely leaning hard to buying this decoder for my first attempt into the DCC world. The installation looks fairly simple just 13 solder points and they all have solder pads.
And i actually just found this kit in ebay going for only 100 dollars so that is a great amount of savings over the other decoder options.
One more question for you guys, Is there any cheap, small decoders that come with the 9 pin install that are also good for hardwiring?
This would just have to be a decoder, no sound.
My question stems from wanting to get running my SD70MAC ASAP without shelling out 100 dollars on the sound kit right after buying my powercab. However i would like to be able to use the cheaper decoder in my Bachmann that i have pictures of below. This unit does not have much room in the shell to place in a decoder. Any suggestions?
https://i.imgur.com/DaGgvrC.jpg
Https://i.imgur.com/YQJ3YYG.jpg
Cheap, depends on what you want. Check Litchfield Station or other online sites. Most sell non sound decoders, some maybe around twenty to twenty five dollars.
Check Digitrax, TCS, NCE, SoundTraxx, Lenz. SoundTraxx calls them mobile decoders for non sound. all vary in price.
No doubt you could find cheap ones on ebay.
I strongly suggest building you Favorites list for DCC links and do some research.
I just looked at Tony's Trains and I saw a couple for about sixteen to twenty dollars. They are commonly called mobile decoders for non sound. Two functions. Front light and rear light.
Some might come with a harness for hard wire. Cut back the shrink a little and unplug the 9 pin harness.
Many also come with an eight pin connector so check carefully.
I just remembered that NCE sells a board type decoder with LED lights on it specifically for Bachmann diesels. The non sound decoders were so bad that NCE developed the Bach-DSL decoder.
Last I knew, about twenty dollars.
Google bachdsl
The PDF with instructions is online.
SpartanCook One more question for you guys, Is there any cheap, small decoders that come with the 9 pin install that are also good for hardwiring? This would just have to be a decoder, no sound. My question stems from wanting to get running my SD70MAC ASAP without shelling out 100 dollars on the sound kit right after buying my powercab. However i would like to be able to use the cheaper decoder in my Bachmann that i have pictures of below. This unit does not have much room in the shell to place in a decoder. Any suggestions? https://i.imgur.com/DaGgvrC.jpg Https://i.imgur.com/YQJ3YYG.jpg
Exactly which Bachmann models?
The below decoder you can install and use the nine pin in the MAC. The decoder dimensions are there. Cut back the shrink just enough to unplug. I and others have done that with older SoundTraxx Tsunami decoders.
http://www.digitrax.com/products/mobile-decoders/dh126d/
Plug the nine pin harness back in and install hard wire in the Bachmann locos.
Now the rub. Locos have LED's or 12 volt light bulbs. I do know one brand of diesels has 1.5 volt bulbs. I think Athearn.