I want to install a decoder and speaker in my Walthers FA-1 loco. This would be my first ever soldering project.
Would a Weller light duty 6-8 watt iron be sufficient for soldering the wires onto it?
Recommend 25 Watt. Use rosin core solder approved for electronics use and do not use any flux on the PCB (light board).
RR Baron
RR Baron Recommend 25 Watt. Use rosin core solder approved for electronics use and do not use any flux on the PCB (light board). RR Baron
Is flux necessary on the wires? Home Depot didn't have flux so I'll check Lowes.
Those cheap battery powered ones are pretty much worthless. Something in the 15-25 watt range (a normal plug in iron) will work well for the small wires in DCC installs. That battery one shows a list price of nearly $30 - for $50 you cna get a proper temperature controlled soldering station which will be usable for all sorts of things, from fine decoder wires to soldering rail joints and feeders. I've used mine to build turnouts as well. About the only thing it just can't do is solder feeders to #12 and #14 bus wires. That's where the 150 watt soldering gun comes in.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
This is the one I have (well, mine is an older model, I've had it for over 8 years now)
http://www.howardelectronics.com/soldering/soldering-stations/for-diy-ers-and-hobbyist/lf-389d/lf-389d-xytronic-minitype-60-watt-soldering-station/
no connection to this company other than ordering from them multiple times now - the soldering station, a fume extractor, and most recently some different size tips for the soldering station. Excellent fast service.
Oh - flux is not strictly necessary for the small wires in decoders. You do want to use some fine solder though, .020 or .015, not .032. Howard Electronics has it - however only in 1 pound spools (8 years ago I bought a 1 pound spool. I still have .9lbs left LOL ) so it costs almost as much as the soldering station. I wouldn't mess with lead free, especially if you don't have much soldering experience. Ignore the hysteria, I've been soldering for 40 years and I'm perfectly normal still (just ask my friends...). Don't eat the stuff (duh) and wash your hands after handling it before you eat. And don't sniff the fumes. It's a different story if you work 8 hours a day 5 days a week soldering stuff. Here's the solder from Howard:
http://www.howardelectronics.com/specialty/roll-solder/lead/nc600-sn63-020a-qualitek-wire-solder-sn63-.020-2.2-1lb/
If you do want to use flux, which is not a bad idea, I use a water soluable type called Super Safe #30. You won;t find that in stores, I bought mine from a company called H&N - again no connection to them other than being a satisfied customer. You want the SUperSafe #30 paste - a 2oz jar should be MORE than enough - I have an 4oz jar and it looks hardly touched after years, because a little bit goes a long way. Here's a link to that:
https://www.hnflux.com/page19.html
ANother useful bit would be one of their tip tinners, helps keep the tip nice and shiny and clean, and a clean shiny solderign iron tip is what you always want for fastest heat transfer with the lowest chance of melting anything.
https://www.hnflux.com/page17.html
Keeping the tip clean is critical to good soldering. The Xytronic station comes with a great stand that uses a brass wool pad which works way better than the damp sponge most others use, combined with the tip tinner and then actual tinning using solder will keep the tip in great condition for a long time - I'm still on my original one after 8 years, the ones I just bought are because I need different sizes for other jobs. Granted I've been soldering for a long time, but I solder feeders to track without wet paper towels or metal track gauges for heat sinks and don't melt ties. It just takes a little practice and a clean tip.
That should complete your soldering tool list for now - and really you can get away without the flux and tip tinner at first. And if you cn find fine rosin core solder (.032 is just huge relative to decoder wires) elsewhere in smaller quantities you can save a bunch of money (up front anyway - a pound worth at the price of the small packs will be more expensive in the long run, but it will be a LONG time before you sue a pound of solder). Radio Shack used to be the place for small quantities like that but good luck with that.
Thanks you! Now were can I pick up double sided tape and shrink tubes for those small wires?
Double sided tape is available from any hardware supplier. It comes in two basic versions. One has a thin foam core and the other is simply tape with adhesive on both sides. The stuff with the foam core is better for attaching things to irregular surfaces which is usually what you are dealing with when mounting decoders.
Shrink tubing is available from tons of suppliers. The easiest and cheapest source is probably eBay. This is a Canadian listing so it will actually be cheaper for you:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/8Size-70pcs-Assortment-2-1-Heat-Shrink-Tubing-Tube-Sleeving-Wrap-Wire-Cable-Kit-/141701359251?hash=item20fe0f2693:g:7G4AAOSwFqJWrDBJ
The best solder for electronics has a small amount of silver in it. This is what I use. Scroll down to the solder. There is enough in a single tube to last me a couple of years or more, and it has a rosin core:
http://ngineering.com/soldering.htm
Personally, I apply flux to all solder connections and I tin everything (i.e. cover the individual connections with solder) prior to soldering them together. You don't need a lot of flux.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Most of my DCC supplies have come from Litchfield Station.
http://www.litchfieldstation.com/xcart/home.php
Scotch exterior mounting double sided tape is recommended by Litchfield. I use it for other projects also. Local hardware store sells it also. Red binder.
For those new to soldering, it has to be considered an acquired art, not a necessary evil for good joints.
Clean parts, little rosin flux, rosin core solder and hot iron.
I use Quad Eutectic Silver Solder with rosin flux. Superior to any solder I have ever used since 1954.
The melting point of a Eutectic solder is lower than any of its component parts, so there is no slurry state in these solders
Most important, practice on scrap material, not your first real solder joint.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
63/37 tin/lead lead solder is also eutectic so it too has that same characteristic single melting point. The othe common tin/lead solder was 60/40 which is not eutectic and it often the cause of 'sold' jointsbecause the joint needs to be help stable and not moved for a longer periord while the solder freezes completely.
I've never found solver bearing solder to be necessary for electronics work. THe melting point is higher than 63/37 because of the silver. The silver DOES make it stronger - which is why silver solder is used in jewlery making and that makes it useful for things like soldering track, particularly stressed adreas like points and throw rods when making your own turnouts. On wire, or to solder components to a pc board, it's just not needed and offers no real benefits.
For heat shrink tubing what are the sizes that I should be looking for? I was looking at this auction because it would get here quicker:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/150pcs-Assortment-Ratio-2-1-Heat-Shrink-Tubing-Tube-Sleeving-Wrap-Wire-Kit-7Size-/261959527377?hash=item3cfe012bd1:g:Wt4AAOSwXeJXc4yT
robkoz:
Made the link clickable:
That's very similar to the shrink tubing offer that I referred to in my post above. As a person who is just starting out I think it is an excellent choice for you. There will be a lot of sizes that you won't need too often, specifically the bigger tubes, but there appears to be enough of the smaller tubes which you will use the most to make the purchase worthwhile. By the time you run out of the smaller sizes (which will take a while) you will know enough to determine exactly what specific sizes you will need for future installations.
rrinker I've never found solver bearing solder to be necessary for electronics work. THe melting point is higher than 63/37 because of the silver. The silver DOES make it stronger - which is why silver solder is used in jewlery making and that makes it useful for things like soldering track, particularly stressed adreas like points and throw rods when making your own turnouts. On wire, or to solder components to a pc board, it's just not needed and offers no real benefits.
I agree. When I was in the USAF, the service had the habit of training me on systems I would never see or work on. When they got tired of that, they sent me to school to be certified on soldering electronic equipment that would ride a rocket into outer space, despite the fact that everything I worked on was ground based.
The school was taught by NASA certified instructors. Upon graduation, I received my very own NASA soldering certification.
Everything taught in that course was about making highly reliability solder joints that would not fail in either the cold or vaccum of space, nor under the intense vibration and stress of a rocket launch.
They never mentioned silver bearing solder.
CG
CG and Randy:
I guess there are different opinions on whether or not silver bearing solder is the right thing to use. If you read TCS's soldering advisory which is at the top of each of their installation instruction pages they recommend Kester's '44' exclusively. It contains 62% tin, 36% lead and 2% silver. I was wrong. Please read Randy's explanation below.
http://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Installation_Pictures/HO_Scale/Athearn/CF7%20WK/CF7_WK.htm
Ngineering sells it. They list it as "Low Temperature". A tube will last a long time. I have been using it for years and it works very well. Scroll down a bit: Ngineering sells a very similar solder but it has 2% silver.
Not trying to be contrary. More than one way to skin a cat.
There's nothing wrong with using silver bearing solder, at least the low silver levels - the higher silver content ones have a way too high melting point for electronics.
However - in Kester's product line - the '44' refers to their rosin flux. They have a complete line of solders of all different alloy compositions, all with the '44' rosin core. And actually what it says on the TCS link:
"We recommend to use only Kester "44" rosin core, SN63PB37, .015" diameter, part number 24-6337-0007."
That's a 63/37 eutectic solder, no silver. It's more important that whatever the mix, it is eutectic, that makes it much easier to use.
OK, thanks Randy:
I corrected my post. I missunderstood TCS's recommendation. I didn't understand the meaning of the '44'. Thanks for explaining that. In any case, the silver has never caused a problem and I have had no issues with the solder not melting easily. It does have the '44' rosin core.
I should have said there's two keys, not one - the second being the ROSIN flux. NEVER EVER acid flux for electronics. Fast Tracks recommends acid flux for building their turnout kits, because you cna take the whole thing and thoroughly wash it to remove the acid, but the one I did that actually came out fine, I used the same old SuperSafe water soluable flux - issues I had making turnouts witht he kit had nothing to do with the solder joints. You can;t take a decoder or an electroonic circuit and wash it off (well, there ARE ways but they are beyond the average home modeler), so never ever use acid flux on such things. When current flows through it, the acid residue reacts with the copper wire and pads and corrodes them.
My giant (1 lb) spool of solder that I've had for like 8 years now (and will have for a long time to come - 1 pound is actually a LOT of solder) is a very fine .015 diameter, great for soldering small wires, and is a 63/37 solid wire solder (no flux core). This is why I've started to use flux more than in the past, there is no in the solder so the only flux is what I add myself. The only downside is it tangles easily, so I often have various short lengths as it gets tangles when i try to unwind some and I have to tear it off. My Fast Tracks kit came with a small roll of smilarly fine diameter solder in a little tube with a hole in the cap to feed it from and I had every intention of simply unrolling from my big spool onto a small dowl or pensci and then using the coil to refill the Fast Tracks dispenser, but that hasn't worked out too well. So I just rip off a length to use for a job and go with that. And wash my hands before eating - leaded solder is not dangerous if you don't eat it.
I have been using low temp siver bearing solder for repairing and building stuff for many years. As Randy said, it's the corrosive flux (and the extra cost) that preclude its use on electronics.
I have a simple test for jobs that are candidates for siver bearing solder. Can I take the object to the sink and thoroughly scrub it under hot soapy water? If not, silver bearing solder is out. If I can, I will use silver bearing solder.
I have never had any corrosion issues following this simple protcol.
Not all silver-bearing solders use acid flux. The Kester '44' line that Dave uses includes many different alloy compositions with various amounts of silver and they all use rosin flux. There are both leaded and lead free varients
http://www.kester.com/products/product/44-flux-cored-wire
It's almost mind boggling, the array of different compositions. Each has its place in various types of applications.
Adding silver makles the solder stronger - so it's a good choice for soldering track such as building a turnout. Outside of really overheating a joint and delaminating a PC board tie, heat is not much of a prooblem with a turnout kit like Fast Tracks.
rrinker Not all silver-bearing solders use acid flux. The Kester '44' line that Dave uses includes many different alloy compositions with various amounts of silver and they all use rosin flux. There are both leaded and lead free varients http://www.kester.com/products/product/44-flux-cored-wire It's almost mind boggling, the array of different compositions. Each has its place in various types of applications. Adding silver makles the solder stronger - so it's a good choice for soldering track such as building a turnout. Outside of really overheating a joint and delaminating a PC board tie, heat is not much of a prooblem with a turnout kit like Fast Tracks.
Good grief. It's not your father's Kester 44 anymore. I just found the remains of a spool of 60/40 that my father probably bought in the 50s, possibly even earlier.
As far as silver bearing solder goes, I have always used one of the Stay-Brite varieties.
Just got my decoder and speaker in today. I didn't return the 8 watt soldering iron yet but should I still get the 25 watt Weller in it's place?
I used to use an IsoTip rechargeable soldering iron when I was in the installation business in Alaska, but only a last resort when AC power was not available and a butane powered iron was overkill. Battery powered irons suck, even the best of them.
As far as the Weller goes, I just read the reviews on Amazon. Get rid of it.
Buy a commercial grade soldering iron or a soldering station. With a soldering station, look for plated replaceable tips, a burn proof flexible cord, and some form of automatic temperature control, not just a rheostat.
Look for the same things in a soldering iron, but be ready to give up the automatic temperature control, except for a few rather expensive models.
25-35 watts is fine for an iron that isn't temperature controlled. You can go higher in a temperature controlled soldering station, as long as small enough tips are available for decoder work.
Even a professional grade 12 watt iron such as the Antex M12 will be fine for what your are doing, but it won't be as versatile as the 25-35 watt model.
If it says the cord is silicone, you should be good to go in the burn proof flexible department.
My advice, buy the soldering station and be done with it.
I agree with CG and from my own experience, battery powered irons are a source of frustration and just not worth it. Get a good 25-35 watt iron and upgrade to a soldering station later.
Joe
What does 'tinning the tip' mean? Nevermind. Cleaning and adding solder to the tip when finished.
And prior to the first use. The first time you plug in a new iron or after replacing the tip you should be prepared to coat it with solder and then wipe it off.
The best cleaner is the copper wool type, beats the damp sponge any day. My soldering sttion came with a holder that included one, but you can buy standalone iron holders (not a bad thing to have - beats laying the iron down on the bench and having it roll off the edge, or you whacking it with a hand or elbow) that have the copper pads in them. You can also usually find the pads in the grocery store, next to the steel scouring pads (NEVER use one of those on a soldering iron) - the soft copper ones are meant for scouring brass pots and pans - like the soft tip of a soldering iron, steel scouring pads will ruin the brass pans.
That iron will just eat batteries. AA batteries just can't delivery the kind of power for soldering. Way back when, almost 30 years ago, we had a Wahl IsoTip cordless iron, which actually worked quite well for use out on the shop floor (lots of 480 volt outlets, not many 120 volt ones!) but it ran down fairly quickly. FOr major jobs we jsu tpulled the board and took it back to the shop and used a regualr plug in iron, but for here and there field work, it was fine. The difference being the Wahl uses nicad batteries which can delivery much more instantaneous power than alkaline batteries. And the good quality Wahl rechargeable iron costs as much or more than a decent budget soldering station. Also, a battery operated iron needs a different technique - you have to hold it OFF the joint, press the button, and wait the 15-20 seconds it takes to heat up, then touch the tip to the wire to be soldered. Compared to an already hot plugged in iron which you just pick up and apply to the joint. Seems like a minor difference but if you are used to a plug in iron and try to use battery iron the sme way, you WILL melt insulation or damage electronic components if you apply the tip to the joint and then press the button and wait for it to heat up. The battery ones are more like using a soldering gun - same use model even though the gun is usually a plug in evice. Pull the trigger, wait for the tip to heat up, then apply to the joint.