Signals for HO switch position

[john in georgetown]

Does anyone have any info on how to create and/or wire up LED's to show the position of a switch?  I am using Atlas code 83 track with their small remote #584 & 585 switch machines.   I am using the MTH DCS system to power tracks but the switch machine will be powered with AC using the Atlas pushbutton momentary controllers.

Thanks so much for any info.

John

[RR_Mel]

I use mini latching relays paralleling the Atlas switch machine coils.  I haven’t run into any low cost AC latching relays so a simple diode in series with each relay coil works great if you are powering your switch machines from AC.

 

I watch for good pricing on eBay ($1-$2) for “DS2E-ML2 latching relay”.  There are several voltages available, I buy the DC 5 volt coils and use a 100Ω resistor in series with the coils for 12 volt operation.

 

I don’t like to solder to the small relay leads so I use 16 pin DIP sockets.

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

I use a dab of Amazing Goop on the top of the relay to glue it to the rear of my control panel.  The relays can easily be removed with a bit of pressure.

 

 

 

Mel

 

Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

[rrinker]

 That's the way to do it. Unless you want to build (or buy expensive commercial versions) some specialized circuits to drive the switch motors. Atlas Snap Relays also work the same way, but these latching relays are cheaper.

                              --Randy

 

[john in georgetown]

Mel,

Thanks so much for the reply.  Since I am a novice but willing to tackle anything and have good soldering skills, are you willing to give me some type of diagram for using the diodes instead of the latching relays?

I would be great if you could.

thanks

John

[rrinker]

 I think you misunderstood - the diodes are used WITH the relays, there's no way to indicate switch position with Atlas momentary action switch machines without some sort of latching contact.

 CHeck out the Atlas Snap Relay. It's more expensive but you may find it easier. It has 3 terminals like the switch machines and hooks up in parallel so the snap relay activates when the switch machine does. There are then 6 other contacts at the other end which work as a pair of switches which can be used to control the signal lights. The instructions include a wiring diagram.

             --Randy

 

[RR_Mel]

john in georgetown

Mel,

Thanks so much for the reply.  Since I am a novice but willing to tackle anything and have good soldering skills, are you willing to give me some type of diagram for using the diodes instead of the latching relays?

I would be great if you could.

thanks

John

 

John

 

I’ll work up a drawing of how to use the latching relays with pictures.  It isn’t complicated and if you use sockets you won’t have to worry about dinging a relay with the soldering iron.

 

 

 

Mel

 

Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

[RR_Mel]

Here is how I wired my latching relays.

 

1)   I went to 5 volt coils on my latching relays to maintain interchangeability with my control system and because they are much cheaper than 12 volt relays.

2)   I use sockets one everything to simplify maintenance, no soldering or unsoldering to swap parts.

 

This is a dual coil latching relay.

 

 

 

Pins are numbered from 1 through 16, there are no #5, #7, #10 or #12 pins on the relay.  The relay will plug into a standard 16 pin IC (Integrated Circuit) DIP socket.

 

I parallel the + side (pins 1 & 2) of the coils and switch the – side for common .  Pins 1 & 16 are the “set coil” and pins #2 & 15 are the “Reset coil”.  Applying momentary power to pin 1 and pin 16 will operate the “set coil”, once the relay is set it holds mechanically. Applying momentary power to the “Reset coil” (pin 2 and pin 15) removes the mechanical latch.  

 

The DS2E-ML2 relay is a DPDT contact relay, you can use either pin 8 or pin 9 for common paired with either pins 4 or 13 for the “set position” and pins 6 or 11 for the “reset position”

 

As the relay has two 5 volt DC coils and I operate my turnouts from a 16 volt AC transformer I use a 150Ω ½ watt for 16 volts and 100Ω ½ watt dropping resistor for 12 volts in series with a 1N4001 diode connected to the coil commons with the diode band toward pins 1 & 2 on the relay, the positive side of the coil terminals.

 

I use red/green/white bell wire from Big Box stores for my turnout wiring.  Green for straight and red for the turnout side and white for common.   

 

This is my turnout indicator configuration with the Atlas Switch machine.

 

 

 

Relay part number:   DS2E-ML2 DC-5V

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AROMAT-DS2E-ML2-DC5V-Relay-/291907805260?hash=item43f70fa04c:g:FhEAAOSwh-1W1zXn

 

Socket number:  Round Pin DIP 16 IC Socket

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10PCS-Round-Pin-DIP-16-IC-Sockets-Integrated-Circuit-Adaptor-Solder-Type-Socket-/322110809437?hash=item4aff4ce55d:g:O3gAAOSwxvpXOfn4

 

Diode number: 1N4001

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100PCS-1N4001-IN4001-Rectifier-Diode-1A-50V-DO-41-/162232878079?hash=item25c5d543ff:g:KG8AAOSwYIxX37K2

 

100 Ω ½ watt resistor:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/50PCS-1-2W-1-100ohm-100-Metal-Film-Resistors-/301936775444?hash=item464cd59114:g:2oQAAOSwgmJXw6DC

 

 

If you have any problems send me an IM and I will walk you through it.

 

 

 

 

Mel

 

Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

 

[SouthPenn]

Check the thread 'Photoelectric Switch' You could use this switch for you lights. On one side of the throw bar is the switch machine. On the other side of the switch the throw bar moves in and out from the rails. Putting the photo eye under the throw bar so the throw covers and uncovers the photo eye would switch you lights. On the photo switch the screw termial block has a common connection on the center screw. One of the other screws is normally closed and the third screw is normally open. By attaching one led to the normally open contact, and the other to the normally closed, the leds would turn on and off when the switch moved. Don't forget the resisters for the leds.

Read all the reviews for more detail of this Photoelectric switch.

Mel found some on ebay for a great price.  

[john in georgetown]

Mel, Thanks so much for taking the time to help.  At least I can start planning.  With your design, will I have to manually unlacth the realy to change the LED color?

I wnt to your wbsite and what you have done with simple electonics components anodds and ends is totaly amazing!!

Regards,

John

[john in georgetown]

Sounth Penn,

Thanks for your idea.  It is amazing how many people on this Forum site are so helpful to nebies like me who are starting in the HO hobby.

Thanks again ,

John

[RR_Mel]

john in georgetown

will I have to manually unlacth the realy to change the LED color?

 

Regards,

John

 

John I’m not sure what you are asking.  Once you wire the relay coils parallel to the Atlas switch machine (don't forget the resistor and diode) the relay contacts center common pin 6 will switch between pin 4 and pin 8 automatically when you operate the turnout. 

The green LED connected to pin 4 will illuminate with the relay “unlatched” and the relay contact pin 8 will illuminate the red LED when the relay is “set” when you turn the points of your turnout.

 

 

 

If you need help IM me with your phone number and I'll give you a call.

 

Mel

 

Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

[rrinker]

 I wonder if he can see your drawings - there is some sort of issue with Photobucket right now, what I get if I try to open the link (just show as an X for me) is a picture of a kitten that says "hang in there - we're having some problems but will be back soon"

 I like that banana plug adapter you did to get measurements on circuits. I need to make one of those. BTW you don't really need to saw those header pins, grip with a needle nose pliers next to where you want to snap a group off and snap, it's already scored but it's like scoring and snapping styrene.

                                 --Randy

 

[RR_Mel]

Randy

 

It just must be me but every time I try to break them off they break off at a contact and I loose a pin.

 

Every time I need a squirrely adapter I make a couple of them, I’ve got a 4” x 6” drawer full of my squirrely adapters.

 

I’ve gone exclusively to the micro connectors, it sure makes working on stuff a lot easier having compatible connectors on everything.

 

I made a bunch of Arduino to Micro connectors and that took care of a lot of problems caused by test clips.

 

Mel

 

Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

[RR_Mel]

John

 

Here is a working link, Photo Bucket is down for maintenance

 

 https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7gZp9MPvrm3dm9yYWFNMEZZNlU

 

 

 

Photo Bucket is finally up

 

Mel

 

Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

[zstripe]

John,

Here are a couple of pic's of the Atlas relay instructions, should You want to go that route. I used them on My layout that was started back in 1980 and have 45 of them installed for control panel lights, switch signals and to power the frogs. Have not had to replace any of them in all those yrs. I use under table machines and normally open push buttons on control panel instead of the Atlas switch controllers. I got the relays in bulk, back when they were 7 dollars a piece though. I use a seperate 3amp. 12VDC supply for the lights.

Take Care! 

Frank

[john in georgetown]

Mel,

Thanks for the reply.  I am trying to locate a good price for the latching realys you specified.  AM I right in thinking I need 2 of the relays for each of my switch motors?  When I get what I need, I may need to contact you again for help but you said to send you an IM but in my old age, I don't know what that means.  I guess I am having an ALEPO moment.   Many thanks again. 

Regards,

John 

[RR_Mel]

John

 

You only need one relay per turnout.

 

 

 

 

Mel

 

Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

[john in georgetown]

Mel,

Thanks for the heads up on the email address.  I've taken care of it.

John