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Walthers Shinohara Double Crossover - Juicing the Frogs

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  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 23,309 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Monday, February 8, 2016 9:38 PM

MisterBeasley
  
richhotrain
Right now, I use tabs #1 and #8 on the Tortoise for power drawn from a DC power pack and tabs #5,6,7 to power signals for the DCO. Can you suggest the wiring to power the frog?

The frog wire goes to pin 4.  The track bus wires go to pins 2 & 3.  Since you have a 50/50 chance of getting the right track bus wires to the right pins, you will be wrong 80% of the time by Murphy's Law, so don't solder anything until you've tested it. 

Success. Got power to the frogs, via the Tortoises. Oh yeah.  

And I did it on the 20% side of Murphy's law.  Thank you, Mr. B. And DG. And everyone else who replied.

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
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  • From: Dearborn Station
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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, February 9, 2016 7:30 AM

RR_Mel

Hi Rich
 
I designed my layout around a Walthers code 83 double crossover.  The two things I wanted the most on my layout was a double crossover and a working turntable.
 
The Walthers Shinohara Double Crossover was the first track laid on my current layout.  I tried everything to get it to work and after many frustrating hours of tedious fixing there wasn’t anything left of the double crossover but pieces.  I had so much trouble with derailments and electrical problems I ended up using two Atlas turnouts for a single crossover for many years. 
 
Still wanting a working double crossover I built my own from Atlas code 83 Custom Line turnouts and a Atlas 19° crossover and I have never looked back.  I’ve never had a derailment or an electrical problem with my homebrew.  No Juicer needed.
 
 
 
This is my “Mel homebrew” double crossover before installation.

Mel,thanks for that description and photo. I recall from your prior posts that you experienced difficulty with the Walthers Shinohara double crossover and that you eventually made your own double crossover with four turnouts and a crossing. Ultimately, I may have to do the same thing.
 
I went down to my layout and laid Atlas #6 turnouts over the double crossover. The double crossover is pretty compact at 19" in length versus 24" with the end-to-end single turnouts. The distance between the ends of the frogs on the straight through route is only 2.5" on the double crossover, but 6.375" on the pair of single turnouts. I like that greater distance because smaller wheelbase locos cannot stall due to dead spots.  
 
For example, my VO-1000 switcher measures only 2.5" from trailing axle on the front truck to lead axle on the rear truck. My RS1 switchers are only 3.0", and you need 3.75" to clear the dead spots, so my RS1 switchers stall as well.
 
Among my passenger diesels, only the E-units clear at 4.0", while the PA, F3, and F7 locos will stall due to shorter wheelbases. No problem with the all wheel pickup steamers. I haven't measured ny various Geeps and SD diesels.
 
Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Pa.
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Posted by DigitalGriffin on Tuesday, February 9, 2016 1:29 PM

You could paint on conductive paint onto frogs 2 and 5 and power the frog..  But then you are back to the complex wiring diagram that I setup for two tortoises + realy + 2 DPDT (or 1 rotary switch)

 

Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions

Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!

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    March 2015
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Posted by SouthPenn on Thursday, February 11, 2016 10:11 AM

Woulodn'tt be easier to install a 'no stall' set of capacitors to the DCC controller in the switcher??

South Penn
  • Member since
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  • From: 4610 Metre's North of the Fortyninth on the left coast of Canada
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Posted by BATMAN on Thursday, February 11, 2016 12:11 PM

SouthPenn

Woulodn'tt be easier to install a 'no stall' set of capacitors to the DCC controller in the switcher??

 

Just out of curiosity, what is the cost and time involved to do that? Over the years we tend to collect multiple small loco's, highrailers, critters and such. I think installing a frog juicer at a few problem areas would be easier than installing capacitors in a lot of different vehicles. But like I said before the technical side of the hobby is the area where I require the most help.

Brent

It's not the age honey, it's the mileage.

https://www.youtube.com/user/BATTRAIN1/videos 

You can never ever out-train poor nutrition.

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
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Posted by rrinker on Thursday, February 11, 2016 1:31 PM

 FAR easier and cheaper to power the frogs, even if you ended up resporting to a frog juicer. Unless you only have 2-3 locos.

 $5 relay controlled by the switch machine contacts for a reverse loop never even has time to short out, vs a $40 autoreverser that waits for the short then fixes it - why wouldn't you?

 

           --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
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Posted by SouthPenn on Thursday, February 11, 2016 7:18 PM

I took it that the poster only had one engine that was giving him problems.

South Penn
  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, February 12, 2016 5:48 AM

SouthPenn

I took it that the poster only had one engine that was giving him problems.

 

Well, my latest acquisition, the Bowser V-1000, was the last straw. Several of my short wheelbase locos, particularly the switchers, stall at slow speeds over the double crossover. The frogs on the straight through routes are perfectly placed to cause dead spots the same distance apart as the front and rear trucks on short wheelbase locos.

Rich

Alton Junction

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