NP2626 My other hobby was R/C Airplanes. The fact is that Almost and Ready to Fly airplanes have all but supplanted kits. It is my understanding (from those who feel they are in the know) that writing and producing instructions for kits is the reason that kits are dying a slow; but, sure death! I find this hard to believe. I've always felt it is a lack of interest in building by the majority that is causing this change. The fact that I find instructions to be confusing and sometimes providing conflicting information that made me stop reading them and relying instead on the plans when building airplanes. This doesn’t help with model trains. I’m finding that this thread has turned more into an admonishment for me to read my instructions, than as I intended, simply to discuss what “DCC Ready” means. Some of you really need to get off your high horses! We all make mistakes and this is universal! Learning from mistakes is one way in which we learn and it is very clear some of you think you do not make mistakes!
Some of you really need to get off your high horses! We all make mistakes and this is universal! Learning from mistakes is one way in which we learn and it is very clear some of you think you do not make mistakes!
No admonishment from me. I don't think I make mistakes...I know I make mistakes...
MC
WP Lives
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
I have seen the DC adapter in the parts page and some loco diagrams at the Bachmann website.
Have found a lot of useful info at the Bachmann site for the past few years.
I have some Bachmann locos.
The PDF's can be expanded a lot for detailed analysis. All part of research.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
richg1998 Many make assumptions with DCC. The Internet is loaded with DCC info if we don't need hand holding. If you are going to remove an engine shell, you will need electrical, mechanical experience. Two wires, DC is a lot different than seven wires or more, DCC. When we did engine conversions on cars many years ago, we learned by doing. Taking things apart. Making mistakes. I go to cruise nights and amazed what many are doing on car mods and don't even use the Internet. Today, many want others to do our research. Thats just the way it is. It is amazing how far model railroading has come, even before the Internet. Rich
Many make assumptions with DCC. The Internet is loaded with DCC info if we don't need hand holding.
If you are going to remove an engine shell, you will need electrical, mechanical experience. Two wires, DC is a lot different than seven wires or more, DCC.
When we did engine conversions on cars many years ago, we learned by doing. Taking things apart. Making mistakes. I go to cruise nights and amazed what many are doing on car mods and don't even use the Internet.
Today, many want others to do our research. Thats just the way it is.
It is amazing how far model railroading has come, even before the Internet.
Yes, just amazing. How did we ever live without the internet?
I remember, we had those things called books. And we talked and learned from people "in person".
And amazingly I did stuff like built a 1963 Nova convertible with a 325 HP, 283 cid V8, at only 19 years old, without the internet.
And I had a working model railroad in my basement too - simply amazing - it had Kadee couplers, hidden staging yards, multi train control, electrically controlled turnouts, all before the internet.
If all the computers died tomorrow, is there anyone left who knows how to build one from scratch and make it work? I design, build and restore houses for a living - and if need be I could build one from scratch with minimal tools and some additional labor.
It seems many today do not want to learn "how to do things", or how things work any more.
While the OP of this thread may have missed seemingly obvious plug on the circuit board, as I said earlier, I think this stuff has become sofisticated enough to expect better instructions from these manufacturers.
Personally, I strongly resent this new trend in computers that I shoud go buy a product, then search forums, message boards, and such to learn how to make it work.
Same applies to model trains.
Sheldon
NP2626 The jumper was not recognized by yours truly as a plug for a decoder and is not described as such in the instructions. That Bachmann stated there even was one was found at the Model Trains and Stuff website after the fact. I have found over the years that instructions tend to be so poorly written that I'm sorry, I tend to ignore them, much to my own detriment!
The jumper was not recognized by yours truly as a plug for a decoder and is not described as such in the instructions. That Bachmann stated there even was one was found at the Model Trains and Stuff website after the fact.
I have found over the years that instructions tend to be so poorly written that I'm sorry, I tend to ignore them, much to my own detriment!
I agree that the information provided by many of these compaines is very lacking. Maybe not a big deal years ago, but today, with all these elctronics choices, a little better info would be nice.
One of the best quality locos out there comes with ZERO paperwork - the Intermountain F units. Good thing they have customer service that is even better than Bachmann - I consider these two at the top of the customer service list.
Alton Junction
The jumper was not recognized by yours truly as a plug for a decoder and is not described as such in the instructions. That Bachmann stated there even was one was found at the Model Trains Stuff website after the fact.
I think maybe a quick Google search may have answered all the questions asked here concerning adding a decoder.
Exception noted.
I'm not sure we should conclude that Bachmann is completely without fault here. For anybody that's doing this for the first time, I'd say the odds are no better than 50/50 that they will recognize that piece of PCB as the jumper that needs to be removed.
Based of the thousands of these things they use, would it really be that big of an expense to make something that looked more like a jumper - with a label that says something like "remove for DCC"?
The instructions, while they show the socket, don't show the jumper as a separate part. Why not at least include a picture of the jumper in the instructions and tell the user that it needs to be removed to plug in a decoder?
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
Mark,
What can I say!
Take Care!
Frank
To the employess and officers of Bachmann, please except my sincere appology for my overlooking the DCC plug on your "DCC Ready" Alco S-4 switcher!
NP2626That I had to have overlooked the plug would seem obvious. This fact is irrelevnt to the topic of this thread
Huh?
You asked "Tell me where the plug is in the exploded view provided". I answered. How is that irrelevant?
It seems to me that any complaint against Bachmann here is unwarranted.
The loco comes with an 8 pin plug that has the standard DC jumper pushed into it. That is the modern term for "DCC Ready", IMO, since most producers now isolate the motor from the frame and install a circuit board with the plug. Just remove the jumper and push a decoder into the plug.
Of course, if you install a decoder that can't be pushed into the plug, but one that must be hardwired and soldered, then the factory circuit board must be removed and resistors may have to be installed if the decoder does not support the proper lighting.
No matter what type of decoder the owner wants to install, the Bachmann S4 is DCC Ready.
- Douglas
carl425 NP2626 Is the plug shown in the exploded view of the loco, with the plans supplied? Tell me where the plug is in the exploded view provided in this link: http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/dwg/dwgs/HO_ALCO_S2_DCC_READY.pdf It is right in the middle of the circuit board. If you zoom in you can see that the rectangular box has 2 rows of 4 holes in it. That's where the 8 pins go. It comes from the factory with a jumper plugged into the socket that looks like the back of a PC board.
NP2626 Is the plug shown in the exploded view of the loco, with the plans supplied? Tell me where the plug is in the exploded view provided in this link: http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/dwg/dwgs/HO_ALCO_S2_DCC_READY.pdf
It is right in the middle of the circuit board. If you zoom in you can see that the rectangular box has 2 rows of 4 holes in it. That's where the 8 pins go. It comes from the factory with a jumper plugged into the socket that looks like the back of a PC board.
That I had to have overlooked the plug would seem obvious. This fact is irrelevnt to the topic of this thread and it needs to be understood that I was successful in converting this locomotive to DCC operation any way, although at some extra work. The little boxes that trap the wires onto the circuit board tend to fail over time, so all my connections have been soldered and will last a long time.
Well, many are now. BUT, As a DC non sound operator the last thing I want is to buy a DCC ready diesel loco who's weight, and thereby pulling power, has been dramiticly compromised to make room for a speaker or two.
Well, you could add weight in the empty space a lot easier than we can remove it.
NP2626Is the plug shown in the exploded view of the loco, with the plans supplied? Tell me where the plug is in the exploded view provided in this link: http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/dwg/dwgs/HO_ALCO_S2_DCC_READY.pdf
hobo9941 "DCC ready" is a cruel joke and just a selling feature. I just bought two Bachmann GP38-2s, that are "DCC Ready". Sure, they have the 8 pin socket, but not much room for anything on top of the motor, except maybe a small silent decoder. So it might be "DCC Ready", but it sure ain't DCC and sound ready!
"DCC ready" is a cruel joke and just a selling feature. I just bought two Bachmann GP38-2s, that are "DCC Ready". Sure, they have the 8 pin socket, but not much room for anything on top of the motor, except maybe a small silent decoder.
So it might be "DCC Ready", but it sure ain't DCC and sound ready!
That's a great point. Isn't it time for manufacturers to design a loco with the space to install the decoder and sound system of your choice?
Long before they even offered it with sound, the Bachmann Berkshire had a sound ready tender - that's fine, it makes sense to only make one tender floor no matter what DC/DCC options you offer. But if it seriously compromises loco weight - no thank you.
riogrande5761 hobo9941 "DCC ready" is a cruel joke and just a selling feature. ....... So it might be "DCC Ready", but it sure ain't DCC and sound ready! I've done plenty of sound installs, but frankly, I'm tired of drilling and grinding and hard wiring. I don't really think it's a cruel joke. I mean, the term DCC ready seems to have been coined before sound became common, so lets be fair. Words mean things don't they? There is no "sound" in the term "DCC ready" - it has commonly meant for years that you could plug a DCC (yes, silent) decoder into an engine and control it with a DCC system. It's been a relatively recent phenomenon that more and more loco's have had provisions in them for speakers etc. And even more recently have some companies, such as Athearn, in a limited very recent number of engines provided accomodations for speakers in their older RTR chassis such as the SD45/SD40 and such. People shouldn't be offended when they buy a loco and find it difficult to shoe horn in sound. It's not written somewhere that it's a DCC right that if DCC is on the box there should be space for sound in there as well. Now if the box said DCC SOUND ready, then sure, I would agree, there should be space for a sound decoder and a speaker, absolutely - you'd have a right to accuse them of a cruel joke if there wasn't space.
hobo9941 "DCC ready" is a cruel joke and just a selling feature. ....... So it might be "DCC Ready", but it sure ain't DCC and sound ready! I've done plenty of sound installs, but frankly, I'm tired of drilling and grinding and hard wiring.
"DCC ready" is a cruel joke and just a selling feature. ....... So it might be "DCC Ready", but it sure ain't DCC and sound ready! I've done plenty of sound installs, but frankly, I'm tired of drilling and grinding and hard wiring.
I don't really think it's a cruel joke. I mean, the term DCC ready seems to have been coined before sound became common, so lets be fair. Words mean things don't they? There is no "sound" in the term "DCC ready" - it has commonly meant for years that you could plug a DCC (yes, silent) decoder into an engine and control it with a DCC system.
It's been a relatively recent phenomenon that more and more loco's have had provisions in them for speakers etc. And even more recently have some companies, such as Athearn, in a limited very recent number of engines provided accomodations for speakers in their older RTR chassis such as the SD45/SD40 and such.
People shouldn't be offended when they buy a loco and find it difficult to shoe horn in sound. It's not written somewhere that it's a DCC right that if DCC is on the box there should be space for sound in there as well. Now if the box said DCC SOUND ready, then sure, I would agree, there should be space for a sound decoder and a speaker, absolutely - you'd have a right to accuse them of a cruel joke if there wasn't space.
Well said.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
NP2626 I purchased a Bachmann Alco S-4 switcher which was termed as "DCC Ready", specifically and per the ad (Bachmann is pleased to offer the S4 in this DCC-ready model with factory-installed 8-pin socket for the DCC decoder installation of your choice). I installed a Digitrax DH123-D decoder and promptly burned out the head and reverse light! Obviously, the resisters for the lights were a part of the circuit board which I removed to make room for my Digitrax Decoder. I did not find an 8 pin socket, per the description above. So, I do not consider this to have been a "DCC Ready" locomotive. I also don't understand why Bachmann produces some of these locos (Alco S-4s) with DCC/Sound and some supposedly DCC Ready?
I don't have the model in question so I will defer to others as to exactly how the circuit board is set up, but in general most Bachmann locos do have an 8 pin socket with a jumper pluged into it as shown in the photo posted somewhere above.
Plugging a decoder direcly into that plug yields a working setup, lights and all, no other mods needed.
Or, in the case of the locos labeled "DCC Onboard" by Bachmann, there is already a DCC decoder pluged into that 8 pin socket - AND the jumper is included to allow removal of the decoder for the best possible DC operation.
Why does Bachmann make locos both ways, or really two out of three possible ways?
Easy - they know how many DC users are still out there, they understand their pricing position in the market, and they understand that not all DCC users want sound.
Many people are quick to say "but the DCC decoders work on DC" - well not really, or I should say not really well.
DCC decoder equiped locos do not work on my DC system. They do not like the Pulse Width modulated DC output of the Aristo Train Engineer throttles. Kind of ironic considering the motor control of a decoder is Pulse Width Modulated DC?
It seems unusual that this loco did not have a 8 pin socket, but not unheard of.
The DCC Onboard versions of the Bachmann GE 70T loco have a decoder made right into the circuit board - a little bit of a nuisance to convert to straight DC, but I figured it out.
I have removed the decoders from dozens of Bachmann locos (and a few other brands), so I am thankful that Bachmann sees the value in total cross compatiblity.
"DCC ready" is a cruel joke and just a selling feature. I just bought two Bachmann GP38-2s, that are "DCC Ready". Sure, they have the 8 pin socket, but not much room for anything on top of the motor, except maybe a small silent decoder. The frame weight is two piece, and the top piece has no holes in it. So a speaker firing down will not be heard. And the fan grills are not see through, so a speaker firing up in the back will also not be heard.Not much room in the cab for a speaker either. And not much room for a sound decoder on top of the factory light board. So, it looks like I'm going to be doing some or maybe a lot of grinding on the weights and doing a hard wire job on them. Might be room for a speaker in the fuel tank area, but will require drilling a dozen small holes for the sound to get out. So it might be "DCC Ready", but it sure ain't DCC and sound ready! I've done plenty of sound installs, but frankly, I'm tired of drilling and grinding and hard wiring.
Bachmann wants 35.00 for that PCB for S2/S4 replacement.
Bob Schuknecht NP2626 Is the plug shown in the exploded view of the loco, with the plans supplied? Tell me where the plug is in the exploded view provided in this link: http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/dwg/dwgs/HO_ALCO_S2_DCC_READY.pdf Isn't the plug the raised piece right in the center of the circuit board?
Is the plug shown in the exploded view of the loco, with the plans supplied? Tell me where the plug is in the exploded view provided in this link:
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/dwg/dwgs/HO_ALCO_S2_DCC_READY.pdf
Isn't the plug the raised piece right in the center of the circuit board?
Yes. Just pull off the top part to expose the socket.
Joe
It appears to me that the socket for an eight pin plug is shown in the upper right, under where it is printed CT004.00P01.8.
I don't know if it makes a difference, but the link you provided says it is for a S-2. I think in the original posts it was said that the loco is an S-4.