I am building a new layout (HO with NCE) which will be a 3 level shelf around my shed which is 9x6 mtrs.
My layout will run sound and non-sound engines, passenger trains, freight trains (consisted 3-4 units) , steam and yard switching, plus local industry switching ,
So there will be lots of trains running and a few people in a OP session as well, so I will need ample power. I want to add 3, 5 amp SB3 booster to each level....so heres my question
Should I join the boosters to the main track buss at each level separated by an EB1?
or
should I have the 3 boosters connected to each other by the control bus socket at the bottom level and just run the track buss all the way around and up to the top ?
IF i do it this way would there be voltage drop over such a distance to the top level? How would you guys go about this?
Thanks in advance
One booster per level should be ample power.
The only common connection between boosters is the control bus cable. If you're going to fabricate your own control bus cable, be sure to read the instructions carefully about crimping on the connectors. If you crimp one on wrong, that booster's output will be out of phase.
We have 4 boosters on our large HO scale club layout plus the main PowerHouse Pro Command Station. All track wiring is through PSX circuit breakers so the entire layout doesn't shut down if there's a problem.
If you don't already have it, the NCE DB5 user manual in .PDF format can be downloaded from the following site:
https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/200537709-DB5-5-amp-Dumb-Booster
Connect each booster to the track bus in the middle of each level, so the distance from booster to the furthest tracks is minimized. 9 meters is quite a run, but 4.5 meters isn't a problem. Of course, you must isolate each of the levels from each other.
Consider breaking each level into several zones, each protected by its own breaker. That way, the whole level won't shut down for a short in one zone. Be sure you get breakers that allow you to set the trip current below that of the booster.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
ok
So what do I do with the track bus?
Will i essentially run three seperate bus lines under each level connected to its own booster ?
or does it still stay a continuous run from the bottom level up to the top level without any gaps
You must have both rails gapped between boosters. You could put all 3 boosters in a central location and run the bus wiring up to the appropriate level, and then T off in both directions.
whats the reason for the gapped rails between boosters? they are connected to each other by the control bus (I'm just trying to understand)
Does that mean I need to put gaps/breaks in the track bus?
Essentially am I creating seperate bus lines for each booster?
what do you mean by "control bus" and how is that related to the track?
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
Where we plug in the flat cable from one booster to the other booster, Control bus is written above the socket on the booster , which links the boosters together.
Sorry if I confused you,
I assumed that if there has to be gaps in the rails between boosters, there needs to be gaps in the track power bus, so that each booster I use will supply its own track bus . Is that right?
tomcatI assumed that if there has to be gaps in the rails between boosters, there needs to be gaps in the track power bus, so that each booster I use will supply its own track bus . Is that right?
The diagrams in the SB3a manual (pg 6) seem pretty clear. Are you referring to the same thing when you say gap between the rails and gap in the track power bus? (perhaps i'm nit picking words, but there seems to be some confusion).
Don't understand why you said "gaps in the track power bus". When using more than one SB3a, you want each to provide power to separate sections of the layout (track) that are completely isolated from one another with gaps on both rails (possibly 4 gaps). Each isolated section of track is connected to the track bus terminals of a single SB3a. (the track bus connects to the rails. the rails have gaps).
The idea is that each SB3a can supply 5 amps of power in each section of the layout. Hopefully that is sufficent for the number of locomotives in that section. If there is a short, power will only be lost in that section of the layout while locomotives can still run in other sections.
Ok .
So I do just run 1 single bus line (for track power with feeders attached) from the bottom level to the 3rd level?
thats all I need an answer to
tomcat Ok . So I do just run 1 single bus line (for track power with feeders attached) from the bottom level to the 3rd level?..
So I do just run 1 single bus line (for track power with feeders attached) from the bottom level to the 3rd level?..
No. Each booster needs it owns separate track bus.
tomcat,
Go by the wiring diagram shown on pages 82-83 of the NCE Power Pro System Reference Manual.
For your installation, the PH Pro would be the first layout level, and the two PB105 boosters would be the second and third levels.
Note where they show two hash marks to indicate both rails gapped (insulated rail joiners). For your installation, these would need to be between each level so each booster's output is isolated from the others.
You could use PSX devices in place of the EB1 and EB3 shown on their schematic, but separate power supplies (PS15 or equivalent) for each component is critical. The PB3 has been discontinued, according to the NCE web site.
On our large HO scale club layout, we do not have a common ground wire between the PH Pro and PB105 boosters due to the distance they are separated, and this has had no apparent effect on the system for almost 10 years of operation, but each component is grounded through the electrical mains.
Do I need a PH Pro ? Dont I just need 2 PB105's and the power supplies?
I already have an SB3a booster.
it sounds like you have a PowerPro, bought an SB3a, that you're plan on running lots of trains in the future and that you may need additional boosters at that time.
for now, why don't you isolate each level of your layout by adding gaps in each rail as others have suggested and connect your single SB3a to each as shown on page 6 of the SB3a manual without the circuit breakers.
If you want to prevent a short in any one section from shutting down the entire layout or help isolate the short, you can add circuit breakers between the SB3a and each section as shown in the diagram. In the future, you can add more SB3a (and optionally circuit breakers) and each can power one or more isolated sections of the layout.
of course, you don't need to do any of this. You don't have to have isolated sections of track, you don't have to use circuit breakers and you don't have to use multiple boosters.
gregc it sounds like you have a PowerPro, bought an SB3a, that you're plan on running lots of trains in the future and that you may need additional boosters at that time. for now, why don't you isolate each level of your layout by adding gaps in each rail as others have suggested and connect your single SB3a to each as shown on page 6 of the SB3a manual without the circuit breakers. If you want to prevent a short in any one section from shutting down the entire layout or help isolate the short, you can add circuit breakers between the SB3a and each section as shown in the diagram. In the future, you can add more SB3a (and optionally circuit breakers) and each can power one or more isolated sections of the layout. of course, you don't need to do any of this. You don't have to have isolated sections of track, you don't have to use circuit breakers and you don't have to use multiple boosters.
Rich
Alton Junction
OK thanks to all for your your great info, I have worked out what I am doing now and how thing will be wired
,SO hears another thing for you
, I have searched and searched but cant find any advice about what booster I should buy if Im adding a booster to my exsisting 5 Amp system (NCE),
As I mentioned before I have a Sb3a but am not sure if I get another Sb3a or something else. DB3 perhaps?
The NCE web does not provide info on what booster to get if you already he a 5 Amp system? Any ideas all wise ones?
The NCE DB5 is the current one for a PowerHouse Pro 5 Amp system, but the SB5 should also suffice.
CVP Products in Richardson, Texas also makes boosters that work with any DCC system.
Here's a link to the NCE DB5 information:
And the CVP Products' Zone Master booster:
http://www.cvpusa.com/othersys_zmaster_booster.php
If you have already purchased the NCE SB5, then go ahead and use it -- no need to spend more money on something different.
HI cacole
I should hav been a bit clearer in my last post. I started out using the Sb5a on my last layout for a couple of years now . I dont own the Powerhose Pro 5 amp system.
So I guess I should have said Do I need to get the DB5 and connect it to the booster I already have ? sorry for confusing the issue.
If you already have the PH-Pro command station, then just get the DB5 and save $40 rather than buying the SB5.
tomcat HI cacole I should hav been a bit clearer in my last post. I started out using the Sb5a on my last layout for a couple of years now . I dont own the Powerhose Pro 5 amp system. So I guess I should have said Do I need to get the DB5 and connect it to the booster I already have ? sorry for confusing the issue.
Yes, connect the DB5 to the SB5 that you already have.
Edit Note: Connect the DB5 to the SB3a that you already have.
STOP! LOOK! It's time to stop all the confusion and tell us EXACTLY what hardware you have --- an NCE PowerHouse Pro, PowerCab, or something else.
Start over with a clean slate, stating by exact model number copied from the front plate of what you have so we know for sure what we're dealing with.
tomcatI have searched and searched but cant find any advice about what booster I should buy if Im adding a booster to my exsisting 5 Amp system (NCE) As I mentioned before I have a Sb3a but am not sure if I get another Sb3a or something else. DB3 perhaps? The NCE web does not provide info on what booster to get if you already he a 5 Amp system? Any ideas all wise ones?
Doesn't the diagram in the NCE SB3a manual (pg 6) describe how to expand a system using an SB3 as a command station with additional DB3 boosters.
cacole tomcat, STOP! LOOK! It's time to stop all the confusion and tell us EXACTLY what hardware you have --- an NCE PowerHouse Pro, PowerCab, or something else. Start over with a clean slate, stating by exact model number copied from the front plate of what you have so we know for sure what we're dealing with.
The PH Box is a Power Pro command station with an integral 5 amp booster.
The SB3a is a 5 amp "smart" booster that can be used as a command station but relies on a Power Cab as its throttle and programming track capability.
The CS02 is a command station without an integral booster.
To my knowledge, these are the only three NCE command station setups.
In my case, I have the PH-Pro command station with integral 5 amp booster and a second 5 amp booster, the DB5, connected to the PH-Pro command station. This gives me the capability to divide my layout into two booster sections which, in turn, divide the layout into seven power districts each controlled by its own circuit breaker.
OK.. I Started with the NCE starter system right out of the box = Powercab and a PCP with no booster
Added a SB3a smart booster which plugged into the back of the PCP which I connected the Powercab and a Procab.
Just want to add another booster, I just dont know which one !
I dont have a PH-Pro box or a DB5
Okay, thanks for clarifying what you presently have on hand.
You're going to need the SB3a smart booster powering the first level of your proposed triple-deck layout.
For the second and third levels, you can use the CVP Products' Zone Master Dual mentioned earlier; two separate DB5 or SB5a boosters; two separate SB3a boosters; or one DB5 and one SB5a -- the choice is yours.
Note, too, that the difference in the boosters is their power output: DB5=5 Amps; SB3a=3 Amps; SB5a=5 Amps; CVP Zone Master=two separate 4 Amp outputs.
But you definitely need a separate booster for each layout level, and each level must be totally separated electrically from the other levels through the use of insulated rail joiners.
I don't have one but I think that the SB3a is 5 amps, not 3 amps.
Rich,
The SB3a (discontinued) was 3 Amps output -- the newer version that replaced it is the SB5a, which is 5 amps output.
Tomcat said he has the SB3a.
cacole The SB3a (discontinued) was 3 Amps output -- the newer version that replaced it is the SB5a, which is 5 amps output.
The SB3a Smart Booster adds expanded and updated features to a Power Cab DCC system. The first and most noticeable feature is additional power (5 Amps) to run trains and accessories.
The original SB3 was 3 amps, the SB3a was 5 amps.