I have read with interest the recent posts about track voltage, because I too have only just come across what seems to be a limitation on my layout.
I have used all 22 gauge or better feeders under 3 feet and soldered rails, and no problem for years with my original Zephyr command station.....running two or more locos. Recently though I see a problem when using my sound cars with soundbug decoders and large 16 bit sound files. I play these through some seriously big and loud speakers in the cars, and wouldn't you know it, the sound drops out on turnouts because of the heavy (I imagine) voltage draw of the loud volumes. Now I am not imagining this...because the system works flawlessly with the smaller Soundloader 8bit files but the hefty draw of the soundcars and 4 speaker array is too much for the Zephyr on turnouts where contact is slightly bumpy. The demand is actually from 8 speakers (two cars) drawing for loud volume and two locos in a consist. There the glitches occur.
Anyway, my question: The wiring is not a problem, my track use is. But what about my using one of the Digitrax 8 amp boosters. Would that provide an improvement? I am not sure what a booster is or does. Thanks for any tips.
It's not a lack of total power. It's a total lack of power. If the cound cutsout and comes back on, you're simply losing contact over the turnouts. WHat kind are they? Is the frog metal or plastic? If it's metal, is the frog powered? If the turnouts are Atlas, do you have feeders on both rails at all 3 ends? I did that and ended up not needing to power my frogs via the wire I hooked up for the purpose.
If you have room, you can install a keep alive instead of reworking the turnouts. This will supply power over brief rail pickup interruptions so the sound won't drop out.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
A booster will not deliver more voltage. It will allow you to draw more current, run more locos, lots more. Big difference.
Overkill for your layout.
Randy gave you some good ideas, what to look for.
Just in case, Randy mentions stay alive. Look at the below link. There is another link way down the bottom of the page. I suspect you need to do a lot of DCC reading if this is new to you. Happens to many.
http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/mainnorth/alive.htm
Poor electrical pickup gets many.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
I agree with Randy, it's a loss of contact problem, not a not enough power problem.
Cisco Kid...Now I am not imagining this...because the system works flawlessly with the smaller Soundloader 8bit files...
Here are a couple of possible reasons why the other sound decoders did not give you any problems: It could be that the cars you have them in just have better electrical pickup. It could also be that the combination of on-board capacitance versus current draw of the older decoders give them enough keep-alive to keep the sound from dropping out.
I kind of agree about the problem being contact on the turnouts, but just so we know the whole picture, how many locos are you running in total, including sound engines idling? If you've got an "original Zephyr," I think that's a 2.5 amp system.
What kind of pickups do you have on these sound cars? If it's only 2 wheels on each rail, that's marginal at best.
And, how are the speakers wired, and what rating do they have? 4 speakers sound like a lot (pun intended) to expect one soundbug to handle.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Thanks, gentlemen.
No, my reading is up to date. I guess you would have to see what I am running to believe it.
As indicated in my orginal post, it is not a turnout contact issue in the ordinary sense. When one sound car and one loco are running, there is no drop out. When I run two soundcars with two locos consisted, that means I am drawing power for 8 large speakers at a volume you perhaps have not heard from a retail sound loco. Moreover, the decoders all have stay alive capacitors. No, I think you would have to witness it to understand it. The decoders are drawing a great deal of power, and a little hiccup over the turnouts is overwhelming the stay alive capacitors and system power to keep from dropping out the current. One sound car, one loco, full volume....not problem. One loco one regular Tsunami or QSI decoder....no problem. Two locos and 8 speakers with full dynamic range of the larger 16 bit soundfiles, and there is drop out.
So a power booster would not help though?
Thanks
No, a power booster would not help. it IS a contact issue, not a power issue. You are loosing power pickup contact longer than the keep alive can continue powering the big speaker setup. You need to either improve the pickup so there isn't a loss of connection, or use a larger keep alive.
Even if you had five such cars, your system can power them, even at the volume you like. It's definitely drop-out due to unreliable rail contact, or maybe a wiper issue, possibly thermal issue. Randy would be able to comment if it's a thermal issue.
If it were a thermal issue, it would happen all over the place, not just at specific turnouts.
If you have 8 speakers going, and the power drops out momentarily, when they reconnect, there may be a power surge that momentarily drops the voltage as the keep alive caps recharge.
Cisco KidSo a power booster would not help though.
It won't hurt either, so IMO it worth thinking about IF you beef up the feeders AND run a feed pair in parallel with the rails, with frequent droppers from the track onto the feed ring!
AWG 22 feeds (plus no ring feeding?) is a bit light for the use power levels you are now expecting to draw!
2 locos and 2 sound decoders with no motors is not straining 2.5 amps from the Zephyr. I have had as many as 10 powered locos, 5 with sound, running simultaneously on my Zephyr with no issues (other than traying to keep them from all crashing).
Whatever else, do not bother with the 8 amp booster. It looks like a bargain deal since it's only a few dollars more than the 5 amp version, but there aren;t any inexpesnive 8 amp power supplies out there. Most laptop supplies are 5 amps or less, for Digitrax you have to jump up to the big PS2012 which is expensive. The MagnaFOrce 615 from Tony's is often sold as an 8 amp power supply - it's not, by 8 amp load the output has sagged below usable levels, shown by their own tests. Plus you do NOT want 8 amps right to the track, 8 amps at 15 volts is 120 watts which WILL melt things if a short occurs.
Bottom line, this is poor contact through the frog area of the turnout, combined with the increased load depleting the (not really worth a whole lot) small stay alive cap that comes with the decoder. Use a larger keep alive, and/or fix the power conduction issues. With Atlas turnouts I've had very reliable operation simply by supply power feeds at all 3 sides. With power routing types like Peco Electrofrogs you need insulating joints at the frog diverging rails, but there are a few simple tweaks to make them more reliable (and power the frog). Peco Insulfrogs are tricky, many times it's not lack of power (the insulated frog area is VERY small), it's actually a short as a wheel tread spans the tiny sliver of plastic insulating the rails. Quicky fix there is clear nail polish to increase the insulated area.
It seems to me that it should be easy to connect a voltmeter across the rails and visually see if the voltage is drooping, dropping out, or staying constant.