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Why has DC power all of a sudden become ADC?

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Posted by 7j43k on Saturday, February 7, 2015 2:40 PM

richhotrain
I'm just saying, that's where the acronym, ADC, popped up and that is his definition.

 

Rich

 

 

Your point is noted.

 

The problem is that he says that it is far more than "his" definition.  He says that the term has "prolly" been around ever since the term "amp".  And yet, it does not turn up in a Google search--not as he defines it.

 

So, yes, it is HIS definition.  It is just not OUR definition.  

 

 

Ed

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Posted by Soo Line fan on Saturday, February 7, 2015 2:31 PM

Pretty much one and the same.Automobile Laugh

Jim

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Posted by rrinker on Saturday, February 7, 2015 2:27 PM

 That's what it stands for in the electronic world, too.

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Posted by Soo Line fan on Saturday, February 7, 2015 1:47 PM

In the automotive world, it stands for Analog to Digital Converter and some times referred to as a A to D converter. 

Second dtc parameter from the top: Click to enlarge.

Jim

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, February 7, 2015 11:47 AM

maxman

 

 
richhotrain
 
PM Railfan

ADC refers to nothing other than 'Analog Direct Current'. Not suprising most havent heard of this as 99% of us are model railroaders, not electricians. Ask an electrician what DCC is and he will be scratching his head. And before DCC ever became DCC.... what did you call it? You didnt call it anything because it didnt exist.

 

 

So, PM Railfan who first used this term a few weeks ago on the forum, says ADC stands for Analog Direct Current.  You can read his full reply on page 1 of this thread.

 

Rich

 

 

 

Yes, and in my 55 years of train modeling, he's the first.

 

I'm just saying, that's where the acronym, ADC, popped up and that is his definition.

Rich

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Posted by maxman on Saturday, February 7, 2015 11:08 AM

richhotrain
 
PM Railfan

ADC refers to nothing other than 'Analog Direct Current'. Not suprising most havent heard of this as 99% of us are model railroaders, not electricians. Ask an electrician what DCC is and he will be scratching his head. And before DCC ever became DCC.... what did you call it? You didnt call it anything because it didnt exist.

 

 

So, PM Railfan who first used this term a few weeks ago on the forum, says ADC stands for Analog Direct Current.  You can read his full reply on page 1 of this thread.

 

Rich

 

Yes, and in my 55 years of train modeling, he's the first.

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Posted by gregc on Saturday, February 7, 2015 6:24 AM

google turns up advanced DC thottles and advanced DC cab control besides others

I would doubt it refers to analog to digital converters (ADC) since the more common need in model railroading would be to convert a digital value into an analog (DAC) voltage to drive a motor.   Every decoder includes a type of DAC to convert a digital value for the speed to a pulse width modulated (PWM) signal to drive the motor.  (I guess that an ADC is needed to measure BEMF).

ADCs have been around at least as long as the phone system went digital back in the early 60s.

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, February 6, 2015 11:57 PM

PM Railfan

ADC refers to nothing other than 'Analog Direct Current'. Not suprising most havent heard of this as 99% of us are model railroaders, not electricians. Ask an electrician what DCC is and he will be scratching his head. And before DCC ever became DCC.... what did you call it? You didnt call it anything because it didnt exist.

So, PM Railfan who first used this term a few weeks ago on the forum, says ADC stands for Analog Direct Current.  You can read his full reply on page 1 of this thread.

Rich

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Posted by Lone Wolf and Santa Fe on Friday, February 6, 2015 11:41 PM

Mark R.
The only reference I can find for ADC with reference to our hobby is "Analog to Digital Converter"

In the television industry ADC is Analog to Digital Converter, a device which converts old fashion NTSC signal from a video tape into a digital cable signal. So in the model railroad hobby it would be equalivant to an onboard DCC decoder. But I think the original post refers to someone thinking Analog Direct Current, confusing it with AAD and ADD which are commonly printed on music CDs to identify which part of the recording process was analog and digital with AAD standing for Analog recording, Analog mixing, Digital master.

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Posted by 7j43k on Wednesday, February 4, 2015 6:07 PM

NP2626

 

 
7j43k

Now, stop wasting your time talking about something that doesn't exist.  And go play with trains.  Right this instant.

Ed

 

 

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Posted by NP2626 on Wednesday, February 4, 2015 5:25 PM

7j43k

Now, stop wasting your time talking about something that doesn't exist.  And go play with trains.  Right this instant.

Ed

 

Awh Daddy, do I haff to?

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Posted by 7j43k on Wednesday, February 4, 2015 4:15 PM

I just waded (if that's the appropriate word) through an acronym list for ADC.  Several hundred entries.

Did I find Analog Direct Current?

 

Uh, no.

 

Did I find ANYTHING similar?

 

Uh, no.

 

I did a google search for "analog direct current".

 

I found it on this site.  This one here.  And nowhere else.  In all the google world.  Which is pretty much the known universe.

 

Now, stop wasting your time talking about something that doesn't exist.  And go play with trains.  Right this instant.

 

 

 

Ed

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Posted by CSX Robert on Wednesday, February 4, 2015 3:37 PM

PM Railfan
...ADC is rolling waves (no straightness) while DCC looks like a cityscape (lots of straightness). But BOTH are DC...

DC power for a model railroad can have different forms - it can be "straight" if it is well filtered, in which case it will still vary up and down as the throttle is varied, but for a set speed it is a flat line.  It can have "rolling waves" if it is not well filtered (sometimes done on purpose to help with slow speed control of locos).  It can "look like a cityscape" if it uses PWM (pulse width modulation).  It can even be combinations of these, for example some throttles will use PWM or allow some unfiltered pulses through at low settings and switch to pure filtered DC at higher setttings.

 

DCC is NOT DC, but square wave AC.

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Posted by 7j43k on Wednesday, February 4, 2015 2:51 PM

I've been an electrician and electrical contractor for 40 years.  I've never seen the term "ADC" used in the trade.  There would be little need to, as DC is either extremely rare or extinct in the field.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone derived the subject term from "A DC".  As in "1.2 A DC" That would be 1.2 amps direct current.  I frequently see things like "15.2 A AC".  If the voltage is already pinned down, the only variable to be discussed is the current.

Actually, if such an acronym were desired, true direct current would be referred to as "DDC", I think.  It's either on, or off.  You know, like a battery in a flash light.  Once you vary the DC with a rheostat, you could then call it "ADC".  So a power pack could be an AC/DDC/ADC converter.  Seems pretty pointless.

The term seems to be an answer to a question nobody asked.

 

 

Ed

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Posted by tomikawaTT on Wednesday, February 4, 2015 11:51 AM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

 

It would be really useful to know where that quote came from? I suspect it might have been right here on this forum? - tomikawaTT, aka Chuck?

Sheldon

Not guilty!  I always spell out analog.

Maybe someone else decided to enshrine, "Analog DC," in a three letter acronym.  As a believer in clearly understandable communication I would never do so.  (I can think of a number of things that could be condensed into, "ADC," some of them unacceptable on a family-friendly forum.  Apropos of which, think of the possibilities in FFF...)

EDIT - two other possibilities for the A in ADC:  Ancient, Awful...  (Note that I would never consider either applicable to DC control.)

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - analog DC, MZL system)

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Posted by NP2626 on Tuesday, February 3, 2015 11:16 AM

Thanks for the clarification Riogrande5761!

NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Tuesday, February 3, 2015 11:05 AM

Oops - Sign I've edited my other post to make it more clear I didn't know who coined the term ADC

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Posted by farrellaa on Tuesday, February 3, 2015 10:35 AM

Big SmileI've had ADC since the 1970's. Mine is a pair of high quality ADC speakers made by Audio Dynamics Corp of New Milford, Connecticut. So there, it has been around for quite some time. BTW ADC is out of business now! My speakers still work and sound great!Headphones

   -Bob

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Posted by NP2626 on Tuesday, February 3, 2015 10:31 AM
From what PM Railfan says the acronym ADC means Analog Direct Current.  Since I am not an electrician, I have no idea how long it has been in use; or, even if it is in use.  I guess if DDC (Digital Direct Current) is a reality, it may be somewhat logical that ADC be used to describe DC, although DC may still be adequate.

I do see the acronyms DDC and DCC becoming very confusing!

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Tuesday, February 3, 2015 8:00 AM

Been in the hobby since the early 1970's and never heard of ADC.  Sounds like someone (not the starter of this topic) is trying to "coin" a new term.

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, February 2, 2015 7:06 PM

 I have the same system - always has been fully expandable. I've added a DT400, a DT402, and a used DT100 to my system. Somewhere in a box I have a Jump throttle I made too. And I've added an extra booster. While my layout is non-existant for now while I design a new one and remodel the basement to have nice walls and a drop ceiling that looks nice, not like it's been through a minor war, I am planning to send the DT400 and DT402 back to be upgraded to radio so i can run wireless going forward. The nice thing about Digitrax is that if you buy the non-radio throttle today, you can send it in later and have it upgraded tot he radio version for the price difference. IE, the radio version is $200 and the non-radio is $150. I buy the non-radio, 2 years from now I decide I want to switch to radio, so I can send it back and for $50 they'll upgrade it to the radio version.

 I rarely touched the Zephyr console after I got the DT400 way back when. On my previous layout, the unit was under the layout, not even easily accessible.

                   --Randy


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Posted by NP2626 on Monday, February 2, 2015 6:46 PM
Sheldon,
 
I don't know how interesting my layout is to people who operate at clubs or large home layouts as my layout is a one man operation.  However, my Zephyr system does have a DT 300 throttle plugged into Loco Net.  So, yes, I have two Loco Net Panels at two different locations where I use this throttle for switching chores that would be difficult to do from the Zephyr's location.

I am attempting to operate my trains with a Car Card system.  At this point my operations are rudimentary and I’m not certain I am all that interested in operations.  Still I am attempting to give the idea a shot.  My set-up has the capability of running up to three trains at a time.  However, I generally run one or two.  

NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Monday, February 2, 2015 4:26 PM

NP2626

Sheldon,

I have a Digitrax Zephyr, DCS50, the older version of the Zephyr purchased in 2002.  I do not have any wireless throttles, at this time I do not have any type of detection, CTC or signalling.  I hope to add signaling at some point in the future, we shall see if this ever happens. My turnouts are controlled by either Caboose Industries ground throws; or, Remote switch machines controlled from the old DC panel I still use mostly for this purpose. Some of my locos have been set for a top speed per the type of loco they are: switcher, road switcher; or road engine.  I have only consisted my F-7 A&B units. 

 

Interesting, do you typically run more than one train at a time? Do you have any additional throttle ports hooked up? Did the older Zephyr support that like the new one does?

Sheldon 

    

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Posted by NP2626 on Monday, February 2, 2015 4:00 PM

Sheldon,

I have a Digitrax Zephyr, DCS50, the older version of the Zephyr purchased in 2002.  I do not have any wireless throttles, at this time I do not have any type of detection, CTC or signalling.  I hope to add signaling at some point in the future, we shall see if this ever happens. My turnouts are controlled by either Caboose Industries ground throws; or, Remote switch machines controlled from the old DC panel I still use mostly for this purpose. Some of my locos have been set for a top speed per the type of loco they are: switcher, road switcher; or road engine.  I have only consisted my F-7 A&B units. 

NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Monday, February 2, 2015 7:09 AM

NP2626
There, we have it!  A definitive answer to the question!  ADC is real and been in use for a long while.  I can see the acronym ADC as being applicable and maybe even necessary, if there is such a thing as Digital Direct Current (DDC).
 
Since I am firmly a Digital Command Control user and look upon all control systems as simply a means of operating my trains, the realm of DC operation is out of my jurisdiction and holds little interest for me.  Good luck and best wishes to all you ADC and DDC users!    Geeked
 
Mark
 

Mark,

Which DCC system do you use?

Do you use wireless throttles?

Do you have any detection, CTC or signaling?

What about your turnouts, how do you control them?

Do you do much speed matching or consisting?

I have operated a lot of DCC layouts, some are better than others. But for me personally, signaling, CTC and prototype interlockings are very important. These things are equally complex with or without DCC, and with or without computerization.

My control system also includes ATC, or Automatic Train Control, just like the prototype had on many CTC controlled lines. If a train runs a red signal, it just stops.

My signaling, CTC and turnout controls work with DC or DCC and does not use computers.

Tell me about your controls.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by NP2626 on Monday, February 2, 2015 6:12 AM
There, we have it!  A definitive answer to the question!  ADC is real and been in use for a long while.  I can see the acronym ADC as being applicable and maybe even necessary, if there is such a thing as Digital Direct Current (DDC).
 
Since I am firmly a Digital Command Control user and look upon all control systems as simply a means of operating trains, the realm of DC operation is out of my jurisdiction and holds little interest for me.  Good luck and best wishes to all you ADC and DDC users!   
 
Mark

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Posted by PM Railfan on Sunday, February 1, 2015 11:16 PM

Hopefully this My 2 Cents worth will provide some clarity.

ADC refers to nothing other than 'Analog Direct Current'. Not suprising most havent heard of this as 99% of us are model railroaders, not electricians. Ask an electrician what DCC is and he will be scratching his head. And before DCC ever became DCC.... what did you call it? You didnt call it anything because it didnt exist.

Analog DC, or the term rather, has been around for quite some time. I see quite often the ill-worded "old style DC" or "straight DC" all the time. 'Analog' refers to the waveform of the DC electrical signal and is an accepted word of description in the electrical trade. 'Old' and 'straight' arent as they have nothing to actually do with DC power. Matter of fact 'straight' would be a better description of the DCC waveform, not the ADC waveform. Power isnt measured in 'old style' or 'straight', its measured or viewed by its waveform. ADC is rolling waves (no straightness) while DCC looks like a cityscape (lots of straightness). But BOTH are DC.

In the case of Model Railroading we pretty much use a form of DC power. But which kind? There are many forms. For the sake of discussion among old and new alike, and for clarity, ADC or 'Analog DC' has been used for many decades that i can recall. Ever since i was taught to read scopes. As hobbyists, not electricians, we just call it 'old' or 'straight' dc and leave it at that being the "accepted" descriptive terms. And when an old term like ADC comes up - we question it.

Lest yee not forget, power is power no matter what form it takes. Analog power is natural. Man makes AC, and also.... DCC. Never assume when in the Model RR realm when talking about power that if someone says DC they are talking ADC. How do you know it isnt an ill worded acronym for 'digital current'. Or one keystroke didnt quite make it to the screen mispelling DCC. Or could be someones initials. Who knows?! Using ADC brings clarity. Like it was meant to do when it was first told to me.

ADC is not a new term or a misused term. I dont know when, where, or who first used the term. Been around since man has been measuring power. Prolly as old as VDC, VAC, ohm, amp, etc etc etc. and certainly older than DCC.

Douglas

 

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, February 1, 2015 3:53 PM

Perhaps PM Railfan misused the term.

Rich

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Posted by Mark R. on Sunday, February 1, 2015 3:52 PM

The only reference I can find for ADC with reference to our hobby is "Analog to Digital Converter" ....

http://www.susa.net/wordpress/2012/10/picmosfet-pwm-model-train-controller/

 

Mark.

 

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Posted by NP2626 on Sunday, February 1, 2015 3:39 PM

Mark R.

 

 
NP2626

Here is one of the places I have seen ADC used.  The referenced term is in the first paragraph of this thread: 

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/240200.aspx

 

 

 

If you read through that thread, you will see the OP isn't familiar with many terms used. I believe he came up with that on his own assumption of there being DIGITAL DC versus ANALOG DC ....

Mark.

 

Mark, had this been the only reference to ADC I had seen, I would agree with you. However, I'm unable to remember exactly where I have seen ADC used before; but, assure you this is not the only time.

NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"

Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association:  http://www.nprha.org/

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