I learned about adding wipers to DCC/sound installs in steam locos from a skillful list-buddy of mine, a MMR from Australia named Laurie McLean. You may have seen some of his videos before, where this wizard of DCC works his arts on many a neat little loco, and I'll link to a couple at the end of these posts.
Here I want to document my wiper installs for a forum-friend here, NP2626, who is contemplated his own installs. This will be mainly pics, but feel free to ask for more details or explanations for what's seen in the pics. While not particularly photogenic, I did seems to improve some each time. I'll do the Westside C-25 first, then post my Sunset K-28 and K-36 in subsequent posts just to kepe things organized.
Here is a pic of my very first wiper on the C-25, a somewhat flawed effort to do two at once. It was too long and delicate, but worked until it suffered the ignominious fate of many wipers, snagging.
I went to the trouble of drilling and tapping a screw to mount the wiper base. Any more, I either CA them or use an existing screw. The base is simply a small bit of PCB tie material that provide a mount, insulation, and a place to solder the lead and the wiper. The wiper itself is formed from Tichy .010" phosphor-bronze wire (293-1101).
Here's how it looks today, with just one operational wiper on the loco. I've also had them on the 2nd and 4th axles, but right now it's running OK with just the one, so it's all good. The objective is to add pickups for the black/left side, which on most steamers isn't used at all, as they are insulated so as to only pickup on the red/right side.
And here's the tender...
For the tender, there are two objectives in adding wipers. First, you do the opposite of what was done on the loco, adding wipers on the red/right side of the trucks, as in most steamers there is no pickup on this side mirroring the way the loco is set up. But you should also think about doing the black/left side. It normally is set up to draw from this side, but this is done through the truck bolsters and is a perpetual source of grief/poor contact. Adding wipers on both side and hardwiring them solves both issues. When both loco and tender are done, this steamer has 16-wheel pickup.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
I used to do the same thing at one time on brass steam sound installs with excellent results.
Then I started using TCS Keep Alive modules. Solder two wires and no more need to install wheel wipers and all the extra wiring !
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
Next is my Sunset K-28, where the same general set of goals guided the install. Here's the underside of the loco and it has 3 wipers on the black/left side.
And the tender:
Finally is my Sunset K-36. Here's the loco:
Here's a closeup of the front mount on the loco.
And the rear wiper mount.
Note that the wipers here are Tichy .020 P-B wire. It's an experiment I probably won't repeat, as they're just not as flexible. They are more robust, though.
Mark R.Then I started using TCS Keep Alive modules. Solder two wires and no more need to install wheel wipers and all the extra wiring ! Smile, Wink & Grin
That works if:
A. Those are in the current budget.
B. There's room for them on board. In HOn3 narrowgauge, that's hard to arrange with many locos.
Here's a link to one of Laurie McLean's videos that show a wiper install on a HO UP 4-12-2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cvpveqBQnQ
For lots more on everything from SMD LED installs to animation, see these:
https://www.youtube.com/user/scoopmmr/videos?sort=p&shelf_id=0&view=0
Great idea for a thread, Mike! Thanks for doing this.
The TCS Keep Alives run from $21.50 to $26.35 and can be a part of their decoders. The Current Keeper from Soundtraxx is $19.95. These prices are from an online discounter.
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
You're welcome, Mark.
Yeah, the prices on keep-alives aren't outrageous, but space in a narrowgauge tender is...wait for it...priceless.
I'm certain someone will come along and tell us they stuffed everything in there anyway. More power to ya...but I reached my patience with stuffing just adding the Tsu, speaker and enclosure.
George at Sountraxx told me I could use the tender body as a speaker enclosure. My guess is that you would need to seal the joint between the body and chassie, to get this to work right. I think thi is because sound from the back of the speaker is out of phase with the soiund from the front?!?
Mark,
Yeah, that is possible. I won't argue with George, he knows his stuff.
He's absolutely right about the need to isolate the sound coming from the back from that coming from the front, which is what the speaker enclosure does.
But considering how many little openings there are in the typical brass tender, it could be a bit of a challenge. Sometimes things tend to rattle and buzz with brass, too. That can all be overcome. The sealing of the tender shell to the frame is probably the trickiest part. When I go to shoving all the wires, etc in to button everything up, having gooey stuff or a gasket to worry about would probably drive me nuts at that point in the process.
Mark R. I started using TCS Keep Alive modules. Solder two wires and no more need to install wheel wipers and all the extra wiring !
I started using TCS Keep Alive modules. Solder two wires and no more need to install wheel wipers and all the extra wiring !
Alton Junction
I've added the TCS Keep Alive modules to many Loksound and Tsunami decoders. They can be added to ANY decoder really. You just have to find the positive (use the blue light wire) and negative (input diode) connection.
As for finding room in a narrow gauge tender - I've installed a Loksound Micro decoder, speaker and an ESU stay alive module (not to mention lights) in a Hi-Rail truck .... I'm sure they would fit in your tender !
NP2626 George at Sountraxx told me I could use the tender body as a speaker enclosure. My guess is that you would need to seal the joint between the body and chassie, to get this to work right. I think thi is because sound from the back of the speaker is out of phase with the soiund from the front?!?
When installing a speaker in a brass tender, I always make a separate enclosure to mount the speaker in. The speaker is sealed to this enclosure. I then mount the enclosure / speaker to the floor of the tender. The size of the speaker enclosure is important. The speaker needs to be able to compress the air on the back to some degree to be optimally efficient, otherwise the cone is just vibrating in free air and resonating within the enclosure. The whole inside of a tender cavity (sealed or not) is not an ideal enclosure for a speaker.
Mark R.As for finding room in a narrow gauge tender - I've installed a Loksound Micro decoder, speaker and an ESU stay alive module (not to mention lights) in a Hi-Rail truck .... I'm sure they would fit in your tender ! Smile, Wink & Grin
Well, come on down. Have the border patrol call me if there are any issues...I'll have the iron hot, will even put some Canadian beer in the fridge.
Mark R.he whole inside of a tender cavity (sealed or not) is not an ideal enclosure for a speaker.
I suspect George thinks that way because Soundtraxx engineers the tender as part of the sound system on the Blackstones. Get away from that and the possibilities are a bit more hazy, especially with brass. But it seems to work plenty fine on my K-27 and C-19 locos.
Mark R. I've added the TCS Keep Alive modules to many Loksound and Tsunami decoders. They can be added to ANY decoder really. You just have to find the positive (use the blue light wire) and negative (input diode) connection.
Rich
mlehman Mark R. he whole inside of a tender cavity (sealed or not) is not an ideal enclosure for a speaker. I suspect George thinks that way because Soundtraxx engineers the tender as part of the sound system on the Blackstones. Get away from that and the possibilities are a bit more hazy, especially with brass. But it seems to work plenty fine on my K-27 and C-19 locos.
Mark R. he whole inside of a tender cavity (sealed or not) is not an ideal enclosure for a speaker.
I'm sure that would be fine if the interiors were DESIGNED for sound - the majority of brass aren't.
Using the entire tender shell as the enclosure would be like mounting your home stereo speakers in the living room wall and relying on the adjacent bathroom to be the enclosure ! Sure, they would work, and probably sound "ok", but it would be far from an optimal installation.
Sorry for veering off-topic - will save further discussion for a different thread ....
Mark R.I'm sure that would be fine if the interiors were DESIGNED for sound - the majority of brass aren't.
Precisely my point, thanks.
Mark R.Sorry for veering off-topic - will save further discussion for a different thread ....
Yeah, I didn't start the thread with the idea of making it one-up-manship a la mode. It was to illustrate something for a fellow forum member. This is the sort of thing that discourages people from posting much of anything, because someone jumps in with, "You should have done it differently and entirely better..."
Which usually works better in it's own thread, I'll agree.
Not sounding miffed here, really, but it's a good example to reflect on about why some things inadvertently (I'm sure) rub people the wrong way.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch...
Still hoping for others who use wipers to post up pics of their wiper installs, provided they haven't been discouraged from even bothering.
Again, my apologies for the hi-jacking Mike. Just so there's no hard feelings, here's a couple pictures of how I used to do it ....
Mark, Can I ask you to show us how you do it now?
NP2626 Mark, Can I ask you to show us how you do it now?
Read my first response in this thread ....
Mark R,
No, definitely no hard feelings. I know you didn't intend it as a hijack or put down. I just wanted to focus on the wiper aspect of things here, because it was a specific question about them that started this.
Looks good. Nice neat job, too, compared to my road-weary examples, which didn't look all that hot when newly done.
NP2626Mark, Can I ask you to show us how you do it now?
Mark/NP2626,
I think (other) Mark means that he does this sort of thing with keep-alives now. But I don't want to presume that.
I went back to see how you are now installing wipers, thinking I was going to see some real innovative engineering. Then it finally did dawn on me that your smarter than that and don't install wipers anymore, you just install the Current Keeper, Stay Alives, ect.
Other Mark
Mike, not meaning to undermine your ideas about providing extra contact. More contact can't hurt and because sometimes room is very limited in the loco; or, tender, better contact with the track is maybe the only alternative.
However, how is it that you get people to apologize after they derail; or, contradict the thrust of your threads? You must simply bring out the good manners in people!
The other Mark, again!
So, I don't believe George from Soundtraxx knew I was talking about a brass model, when he stated that I could use the tender shell as a speaker enclosure, as the materail the tender is made from was not specified.
This does beg the question, what is a good material to make speaker enclosures from?
I remember someone posting about experiments with that, making enclosures out of different materials. The denser and stiffer the better - you don't want the enclosure flexing with the sounds. I no longer have a link, but the experiments included enclosures from various plastics, metal, wood, and I think even a lead one.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Randy has good points on this, Mark. I will say that most speakers sold for this purpose now have a corresponding enclosure available at very nominal cost and this is often the low road to good performance. Otherwise, it's a lot like building your own stereo speakers. Looks simple, but the more you know about theory and materials, the more complex it can be.
NP2626You must simply bring out the good manners in people!
My objective isn't an apology. I don't think there was anything really here to apologize about.
Thread drift tends to happen unless you gently push back against it. And I really try to relate to things as being a member of a community that encourages people in any forum I'm on to interact, not counteract. The internet doesn't inherently provide much in the way of self-monitoring, so I think you have to intentionally consider how your words sound to others as well as to appreciate that things that irritate you often aren't personal.
So I tend to explain my concerns but rarely take the things that spark them personally. It makes it easier to disagree and still count folks among those who are willing to have a good conversation just as much if not more than a good argument. Lord knows there's too much of the latter and never enough of the former.
Mike, I was just "blowing smoke up your skirt" a little, the reality is you are one of the most cantankerous model railroaders here!
So, if it turns out I need to build an enclosure, what’s the consensus on the best material to build them out of?
Cantankerous, but not obnoxious...maybe that is what it is
Plastic works well. I've also seen wood work.