So one idea I'm throwing around is upgrading my N Scale layout to DCC. I already have the track wired properly for it, but I'm just running DC through it now. Is there a good starter system you all would recommend that isn't crazy expensive but allows for multiple locomotives with sound/lights?
Eventaully I'd like to have all of my locos have the sound/light module in them too. So with that, which sound module sounds the best and most realistic?
Two engines I have I'm not sure if they are DCC capable or not, they're fairly new, one is a GP35 from Atlas and the other is a Dash-8 from Superior by Bachman. I would like to upgrade those with DCC and sound, how difficult does that sound? Thanks guys I'm just trying to learn all of this stuff now. Appreciate the help as always!
I am in HO and have an NCE Power Cab, like it very much. It is able to run 4-5 sound locos and can be upgraded should you ever have the need. Remember it's the number of locos and other things you are running, not the size of the layout that requires more power. If you are only going to run three or four locos at once, no problem.
The only knock I have heard for sound in N scale is that getting a speaker into the diesels can be tricky and the small speakers lack quality sound. I haven't heard one, that's just from conversations here on the forums. There was a system mentioned recently that has speakers on the layout, but the sound seemed to follow the locos. It may be in a recent MR article, but I'm behind on my reading. Might be something to look into.
Goos luck,
Richard
I use Digitrax. They have the Zypher Xtra. It's a throttle and command station in one unit.The NCE is a good system as well. Both are expandable. Both systems offer a computer interface so you can use JMRI which is a free software. Google JMRI to find out more. Joe
Thanks guys I will do some research! You know a sound system like that which follows the engines would be nice and make me pretty happy, I'll have to do some research on that. Do you happen to remember anything about its name? Thanks!
SurroundTraxx. Great idea since small speakers are physically incapable of much low frequency sound reproduction. However, it does sort of lock you into an all-Digitrax system, because it relies on their Transponding technology to locate a given loco in order to direct the sound to the proper speakers. Now, they do have a pretty wide selection of N scale decoders to fit most locos, but sometimes you need other options to make it easier. Or to find ones that run better. There's a lot of overlap between decoder makers as far as specific board replacements to fit specific locos, but there are also a few that, say TCS will have that Digitrax doesn't, and vice-versa. You can run anyone's decoders on anyone's DCC system, but for a technology like Transponding, only Digitrax has it in their decoders, and even if you don;t care about detecting a certain loco, unless that other brand of decoder 'supports' transponding, it may cause it to not work if that other loco is on the rails.
If I were to switch back to N scale, I think I'd forego sound. I've been doing this since long before there were sound decoders, the silence doesn;t bother me. The ability to run freely, anywhere and everywhere, is my attraction to DCC.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I'll put in another plug for the NCE PowerCab. Works great, minimal physical footprint, the controller works with the full-boat NCE systems if you upgrade and there is a booster available if you end up needing just a little more power.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
joes2fst4u Thanks guys I will do some research! You know a sound system like that which follows the engines would be nice and make me pretty happy, I'll have to do some research on that. Do you happen to remember anything about its name? Thanks!
http://www.soundtraxx.com/surround/
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
One of the things you really need to consider is whether you will need more DCC system in the future. Some of the entry level systems are limited in their expandability/flexibility. Choose a system with plenty of power (at leat 3 amps), and that can be expanded by simply connecting more throttles. Some systems will allow only a limited number of extra throttles (how many operators can your layout use?) while others can handle far more than you would ever need. Also look into exactly what each system will need for expansion. Will expansion eventually mean you need to purchase a whole new command station or can you just wire in additional boosters? Also consider the user friendliness of the system. Will it take repeated treks through the manual and assistance from a local expert to learn a system or can you just turn it on and figure it out based on common sense? Each system is very different, especially the user interface. If you can, visit layouts using each of the major DCC brands and choose the one that fits you. Don't just buy the system everyone else seems to have simply because "that's what the club installed so I have to have that system to be able to run there." There are a lot of consumer products out there that gather a following based more on their market history than on their merits. Finally, look for a system that is robust enough to not need a vast service network. All of the major DCC brands have support networks although some systems rely on their system far too much! I'd rather have a car I can drive every day without problems than some wundercar that's always in the shop.
Hornblower
Hornblower has some good points, however, I urge a little caution with one. If you are a club member or operate on other layouts often or expect folks to come to join you on yours, a matching system is important. Different brands are not compatable to operate with each other. Do look over a number of systems, but unless one really stands out to your personal preferences over the others, what is local can be an important factor. Being able to work with others and ask them questions can be as important as other factors.
Good luck,
I have an NCE PowerCab system and I am very happy with it. One of the reasons I chose it was because the design of the face of the controller seemed easier to work with than something like Digitrax. I am all thumbs so looking at a square panel of identical buttons made my eyes glaze over. Having said that, I admit to being a dinosaur. You are obviously much younger and therefore likely to be much more able to adapt to different configurations.
As for speakers in N scale, you might want to explore the use of 'sugar cube' speakers like the speakers that are used in iPhones. I have only used them in HO but they are smaller than most speakers and produce excellent sound. Here is a link to one supplier with lots of information on them:
http://www.sbs4dcc.com/sugarcubespeakers.html
Again, I don't know if they have been used in N scale or not but they certainly deserve a look.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Another vote for the NCE powercab.
Outta the box, it's a nice little 2A command station / throttle (everything is in the throttle body), which you can expand to 5a with a SB5 booster (and, as with other systems, you can use multiple SB5 boosters). I think you can have 2 or 3 additional throttles with it outta the box, and the SB5 is good for up to 6.
OR, if you like how the Powercab works, but you need more throttles (or want other features it doesn't support, even with the SB5), you can upgrade into a Powerhouse Pro system (5A or 10A), in which case, your Powercab commandstation/throttle just becomes an extra throttle on the PH Pro (I don't know the limit, though I *think* it's somewhere in the 60s -- 60 or 62 or something like that).
-Dan
Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site
Get the NCE PowerCab. You won't be disappointed.
Thank you guys all so much! I will definitely check out the NCE system! I would only h ave about 3 locomotives running at a time at most on my layout. It isn't a big layout, L shaped and about 6' x 4' x 6' for the size single main line track so I'm not too worried about having enough power for it.
The PowerCab is well-suited to your layout and likely operations on it. You'll likely want to add a couple more plug-in points (UTP) so you can move to the other side of the layout easily. Other than that and the RJ cables to connect them, everything comes with the PowerCab.
Keep in mind that if you unplug the Power Cab to move it elsewhere, you are in fact shutting down the entire system.
Jack W.
Thanks guys that sounds like a good option.
Also what do you all think of this: The Bachman 36505 Dynamis DCC Controller
http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Bachmann-36505-Dynamis-DCC-Controller-p/bac-36505.htm
Personally I'm starting to lose faith in Bachman products, I've had two older motors in locomotives burn up from them and they just feel kinda cheap.
Don't bother. Limited expandability - it's a feature-reduced version of an ESU starter system - the ESU version has lots of expansion options, Bachmann left off some ports.
Stick with the Zephyr Xtra or PowerCab. Zephyr Xtra is 3 amps, can run 22 throttles, and you can use your existing DC power pack (or two of them if you have them) as 2 extra throttles right out of the box. Dedicated program trackw ith readback, and full expansion into however big a system you want.
jalajoieKeep in mind that if you unplug the Power Cab to move it elsewhere, you are in fact shutting down the entire system.
Good to know, as I wasn't sure how it handled memory. Probably not a big deal on a small layout and a good excuse to eventually add a smaller, throttle-only controller to utilize the walkaround capability via the UTPs.
My PowerCab is used on the programming & test track, so only gets used as a throttle on the main PowerPro-powered layout during ops session.
Randy reminded me of something else common to NCE, but that's different than Digitrax. NCE does NOT do DC. If that's a factor, that could also be a deciding point. Realistically, this is a feature I never felt at a loss for, because once DCC, like many folks are, there was no going back.
Using old DC packs as extra throttles with Digitrax is not the same as its ability to run a DC loco on the DCC track - each of those DC packs conencted to the 'jump' ports can be assigned any valid DCC address, to run ANY decoder-equipped loco. ANd one fof them can be assigned address 00 to run a DC loco, but it's not passing through the output of the DC pack. It't just assigning address 00 to one of the jump throttles.
That's neat, but I guess another sign that some folks just can't let go of DC, even when they're mostly DCC. Kind of reminds me of thoese turntables you can record LPs directly to your computer in a digital file. Not knocking vinyl, either, as I have plenty of it and appreciate its virtues -- yes, DC, has a few, too -- but it's a declining market. Of course, old DC powerpacks are cheaper than new DCC controllers, but the form-factor of most of 'em doesn't seem too attractive to walkaround ops...
Of course, if I had gone Digitrax, I could've kept one of my MRC CM20s on that 2nd cab wiring and fed the Digitrax box that as one of the DC throttles from what is now enough mothballed wiring for a whole 'nother layout that I abandoned in place. And I would've had walkaround control. Sounds attractive until I realize I'd be stuck trying to figure out my D-throttle each time I picked it up.
Guess that's why I roll with NCE
I know, it's hard to press the Loco button, and key in the address. Or turn the knob to the right to go faster, left to go slower.
jalajoie Keep in mind that if you unplug the Power Cab to move it elsewhere, you are in fact shutting down the entire system.
Yep -- there is that drawback. BUT, if you were to add a SB5 booster, then it kinda takes over as "command station" and allows you to unplug the Powercab throttle without shutting everything down.
Alternate is to just get a Cab04p (or other throttle) to use as the walk-around (and the Powercab stays at the middle).
Options abound, regardless of which system you choose
rrinker I know, it's hard to press the Loco button, and key in the address. Or turn the knob to the right to go faster, left to go slower. --Randy
Ooooooh, that sounds so modern. A lot like my NCE has always been, since circa 2007 anyway.
Maybe the places I operate all have the old school D-stuff? Theirs are all knob-selectors for the loco address and a bunch of tiny identical buttons with cryptic acronymns for labels -- at least that's what they trust me with, probably for good reason.
The funny part is everyone else I operate with are D-users, but when we operate on their layouts lots of time is spent with them asking each other how to do something. When they come over here and are handed NCE -- that I suppose started as a mystery to them -- and I rarely get asked anything about throttles.
mlehman rrinker I know, it's hard to press the Loco button, and key in the address. Or turn the knob to the right to go faster, left to go slower. --Randy Ooooooh, that sounds so modern. A lot like my NCE has always been, since circa 2007 anyway. Maybe the places I operate all have the old school D-stuff? Theirs are all knob-selectors for the loco address and a bunch of tiny identical buttons with cryptic acronymns for labels -- at least that's what they trust me with, probably for good reason. The funny part is everyone else I operate with are D-users, but when we operate on their layouts lots of time is spent with them asking each other how to do something. When they come over here and are handed NCE -- that I suppose started as a mystery to them -- and I rarely get asked anything about throttles.
Appearientlyt they are old THrottles - as I still have some!
I just love these so called Experts that use the OTHER brands and sit around and ditz Digitrax!
And I know - as I sell Both Brands!
And I know which one I will keep using and it isn't N
I love the comments about holding the Throttles as the OTHER brand users claim they are better able to hold the Throttles when in FACT the OTHER brand Throttles are Bigger Wider and thicker than any of the D throttles.
Again only way I found that out was I had to modify my Holster I made for the D Throttle as the N throttle wouldn't fit - had to make the holder wider as the N throttle was more than a 1/4" thicker than the D Throttle and TOP heavy to boot!
And the N throttle is for a Right Handed person as the Direction button is on the wrong side for a person holding the Throttle in their Right hand and doing uncoupling with their Left hand.
And NO my hand isn't small - so that joke is out!
Now everyone knows the story about the Throttles!
BOB H - Clarion, PA
Must be still using the old stuff, since at least 2004 (and it has to be earlier, actually, since I bought my system in 2002), thre was none of that knob twisting to enter addresses, there was a full number keypad to directly enter the digits. Oh, you can still dial up an address with the knobs, if you want to, for some silly reason. Quicker to just press the numbers.
Therein is the other nice thing - I did pick up one of the really old throttles on eBay. It's not that hard to dial in an address. I have sound locos, but I don;t care about all those extended functions that make moos and stuff - I need a headlight button, bell, and whistle, and the old throttle has that, so it is perfectly suitable to run trains. I wouldn;t try to program with it, too many compromises to make it all work with just 8 buttons. There does seem to be a somewhat mistaken impression that more buttons = more complicated. Quite the reverse, when every button does just one thing. No shift-key combinations, a button for every function. That's what makes the newer full cabs easier to use. The basic cabs are about as easy to use as anything, just dial in the address, big knob for speed, toggle for direction.
Nice fair review of MRC in the latest MRH - faults and all. Same one I always noticed - the throttles, while looking a lot like NCE ones, are pretty much impossible to use one-handed, as the knob is on the bottom. My DT400 and DT402 throttles, one handed, either hand, operation is super easy. Once an address is entered, I have no need to look at the display, and can just hold the unit in either hand, down at my side, adn spin the speed knob with my thumb, clickign it reverse direction. Easy. Probably the only real fault with the older DT100, the knob doesn;t click to reverse, there is a button. SO after I press a few times wondering why it doesn;t click, then I remember I have to press the direction button.
cmrproductsI just love these so called Experts that use the OTHER brands and sit around and ditz Digitrax!
Bob,
Didn't call myself an expert, just related my experience and impressions. Believe it or not, other folks might come to different conclusions even though they have the same set of facts as you do.
As for fitting people's hand's, sometimes larger works better, all depends on the person interacting with handheld blackbox. Consider your average camera these days, about the size of a pack of cigarettes! Give me something with some meat on its bones so I can hold onto it.
So, maybe it's only the old Digitrax I find so confounding? Well, that's what I've got to work with. First impressions do tend to point us to different paths, depending on how they go. I suspect NCE growth may be due in part to providing that better user experience upfront. Then Big D stepped up its game. That's the way it's supposed to work.
rrinkerProbably the only real fault with the older DT100, the knob doesn;t click to reverse, there is a button. SO after I press a few times wondering why it doesn;t click, then I remember I have to press the direction button.
Yeah, that one still gets me about 3 times and ops session. Darn thing won't move??? It's stuck in Neutral again. On the throttles I've been using, direction is via a three position toggle on top the throttle, but that may have been a mod, not sure. Who needs neutral if you don't have a transmission!!!
cmrproducts I just love these so called Experts that use the OTHER brands and sit around and ditz Digitrax! And I know - as I sell Both Brands!
First of all let's keep this friendly, people have different preferences and opinions and each one is something they like and is suited to them. I will probably go with whichever one I like the most and fits my needs the most. Second thing, who says who is more of an expert than someone else? So far I trust the first few guys that have been chatting with me as they have expertise in this area, so I would call them experts. And third, I hope you don't treat your customers like this.
Those are UT4's, the middle spot is brake. So you can theoretically switch without touching the knob. Switch from forward to brake, train will slow down and stop, switch to reverse, it will speed up gradually. That's not a mod, that's the way they come.
mlehman Who needs neutral if you don't have a transmission!!!
Haha I was wondering that same thing, let's see no transmission, no dynamic breaking, maybe it'll rev the engine if it has a sound decoder? Cool but I'd rather not bother with it still lol.