All,
The installations of the KA 1's in the Proto GP 60's are done. It is the same set up as the GP30. I gave up on the GP20 as it is just too tight in the shell without milling the wieghts. I have now installed about 20 KA 1/2's and Current Keepers and I have found that finding room for the Keep Alive's in the various shell was more challenging than the soldering on the connections.. My two car garage layout was built years ago as DC and while it has been modified numerous times I still had problems with stalling on switch frogs. I added some additional feeders when I shifted to DCC but the problem remained. I really did not want to change out the older Atlas switches so installing the Keep Alives seemed like a reasonable alternative. I have Athearn, Kato, Proto and Atlas engines and have put the Keep Alives in all except the Atlas which being heavier don't seem to have as much trouble on the frogs. With the Keep Alives, operating at slow speeds in and around the yards and sidings has improved dramatically and makes for more enjoyable operating. I still clean the track and wheels (afterall it is a garage) but I really like the results.
Thats my last two cents except to say thanks to all who provided information along the way.
Marty C
Just in case anyone might be interested I found a solution to adding the "Keep Alive" to the Proto GP30. I removed the engineer figures from the cab and installed a TCS KA 1 sideways under the headlight assembly on a shelf I fashioned out of a piece of styrene. The wire connections are as previously mentioned. I threaded the blue wire through the +14v hole and soldered it to the band end of the orange diode on the bottom of the board. The black wire is soldered to the hole marked ground.
Here is a picture of the installation. I'm not the best at soldering but it works.
Next to tackle are the GP50's and the GP 20. Thanks to all for your help along the way.
Just a follow up. After talking to the Soundtraxx support people and looking at the Tsunami's in the Proto GP 30 and GP 60 and the Intermountain, the connections for the "Keep Alives" are the same as the KT-1000. Blue wire to the band end of the orange diode on the bottom of the board and black wire to the small hole marked ground. I did the install on the Intermountain and it works fine. I have not yet figured out how to fit either the KA2 or Ka1 (or a current keeper) into the Proto's without significant cutting of weights but I'm still looking. I just wanted to post the new info in hopes it will help someone else.
Thanks again to all,
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
I received the KA2 and installed it on the TSU KT 1000 as we discussed. Blue wire to the orange diode on the bottom and Black/white wire to the ground pad. It works as advertised. Another challenge met. When I get energetic I will open up the Proto 2000 GP30 and investigate the connections on that factory installed board. Probably completely different again. I will post the results.
Thanks to you, Rich and others I learned a lot, including how to post the pictures. Thanks for the assist.
LoL .... no problem Marty.
Yes, based on what they are saying, your assumptions would be correct.
Based on "typical" electronics, we usually refer to "common ground" as negative (not always, but in most cases). On a decoder, common and ground are two different things - common is positive and ground is negative.
I don't know if you picked up on it or not - on Marcus' page, he continually refers to the anode as the negative and cathode as the positive connection ! Don't know about you, but that's not what I was taught in all my years of electronics. I sent him a query as to why ....
Post back here with your results.
Marty C Mark, I read the thread you sent. When I first started installing the Keep Alives in my GN tsunamis (factory installed) I tried connecting to the +14v pad and the common and all that did was keep the sound alive but not the motor. Marcus's page explains that the GN's are different and the connection should be to the diodes next to pads 12 and 11. That worked as advertised. I'm wondering why connecting to the +14v and ground pads on the KT would work when it didn't on the GN. I'm awaiting my next shipment of KA2's and will try a temporary connection as a test. Then I will tackle the board in the Proto. Thanks, Marty C
The GN-1000 are designed for the Athearn engines that use the 1.5 volt bulbs. If the KA2 is connected in the "normal" fashion (blue wire common and ground), it only receives a 1.5 volt charge voltage which is insufficient to do anything.
As for the pad being marked +14, I've read a mixed bag on that. It seems earlier versions of that decoder had a problem in that the pad wasn't functioning as expected. I had a couple of them I attempted to use that pad for common when installing LEDs and could not get them to work. Others claimed the same problem, while yet others used it just fine. Never did get a definitive answer as to what the problem was. Install your KA2 as per the directions on Marcus' page to be sure.
As a side bar, you keep contradicting terminology .... "common" on a decoder is the blue wire which is positive and "ground" or "function sink" is negative.
Marty, this is the thread I found ....
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/soundtraxx/conversations/topics/31443
Message 14 of 21 by Gerry Hopkins.
I just found this exact topic on the Soundtraxx Yahoo Group. According to their findings, you can indeed use the +14 pad and the ground pad.
The blue wire would connect to the +14 pad (or your common blue light wire) and the black wire would connect to the ground pad.
He should have no problem finding the plus and minus connection points.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Yes, the five black components in the middle are the diodes as the truck leads attach to the large pads in the middle of the board on either side.
Not sure if it's visible or not, but on each of the pair of diodes on each side of the board (ignore the one in the middle), one end of both will be connected by a common circuit trace from the truck wire pad. These two diodes will be oriented opposite each other with the positive of one and negative of the other connected to the common trace.
At the opposite end away from the common connection is where you pick up the negative (non-banded side). You can pick it up from either pair of diodes.
Damn - this is so hard to explain clearly .... I can point it out in two seconds !
I Googled the decoder and found a better photo. Actually found quite a few. The second photo definitely shows the diodes. Four of them will form the bridge. Get an Optivisor and check it out. Follow the traces with an ohm meter. The four diodes will be connected to the left and right rail pickups. Many times components have a prefix. C = caps. D = diodes.
The DC out will go to a couple caps for filtering. They will pretty good size.
If you continue to work at the component level you need both those items in your tool box.
Marty C Rich and Mark, OK here are thr photos of the top and bottom of the TSU KT1000 Marty C
Rich and Mark,
OK here are thr photos of the top and bottom of the TSU KT1000
Ok that is good for a start. The second photo shows what looks like five diodes. Four of those would form the full wave bridge.
Try to enlarge your photos for better resolution. Photo experts here will tell you how to do that. What brand, model camera are you using? Maybe a cell phone or smart phone?
As an example, I use a Nikon CoolPix AW100. 4608 x 1456.pixels. Pretty big but Photo Bucket takes care of them. Never had any issue with photos for Photo Bucket.
Just to add, some companies install a proprietary decoder and different looking than the decoders from SoundTraxx.
A photo of a decoder will usually be what users take and upload.
Marty C Thanks everyone . The board in the GP 30 is again completely different from either the AT or the KT. Lets hold off on the guessing until I can get the picture thing going. Rich, thanks for the tip n how to pload thephotos. Marty
Thanks everyone . The board in the GP 30 is again completely different from either the AT or the KT. Lets hold off on the guessing until I can get the picture thing going. Rich, thanks for the tip n how to pload thephotos.
Marty
If you are not into a lot of blah, blah in a discussion thread, some are, posting photos is a big help.
Form what you want for albums in Photo Bucket. It can get addictive and difficult to find photos after a while.
Don't move photos to what might be a better album. Just add the photo to that new album or the photo will go away from where you posted it. Photo Bucket does warn you.
If you find the photo you post here is not very good, just delete it from the forum and up load a better photo. This will come to you quickly.
Right now you cannot delete a discussion but you can modify the discussion and photos.
That diagram shows an AT-1000 board. Is that what is in the Proto 2000 engines ? That not what's in the Kato's - the KT-1000 looks completely different.
Strange I cannot find a picture of the interior of a factory sound equipped Proto 2000 GP30. (?)
I forgot about the five diodes.
Get a Photo Bucket account. Upload your photos there. Then copy and paste the photo into a forum. There are four links you can use. Use the one labeled, IMG.
It will make troubleshooting MUCH easier when using a forum.
http://photobucket.com/
This is the digital age. Take advantage of it.
I have done this with a digital camera and my iPhone and I am not a tech guru. I am 73.
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Your Decoder should look like this:
Click on pic for even more info and diagrams.
Take Care!
Frank
Rich1998,
Thanks for the tip.
Marty C Rich, I have previously studied the webpage you had suggested and it has great info but does not answer my question. Mark, I understand and will look on the bottom side for the array as it is not on the visible side Thanks, Marty
Rich,
I have previously studied the webpage you had suggested and it has great info but does not answer my question.
Mark,
I understand and will look on the bottom side for the array as it is not on the visible side
Thanks,
From what I can glean in the smallish online pictures, the four diodes are on the opposite side the LEDs are on - but again, I can't be sure.
If you could post a picture, that would be very helpful.
Post a photo of the decoder. Very easy to do.
A picture is worth a thousand words.