Thanks Mark.
Maxman.Yes, I have 2 on the reversing section. I probably only needed one. But, I am learning the hard way about electrcity. Be patient with this old fart. You and all the guys on here have been super. it is sometimes difficult and even with the best of intentions tough to convey meanings about such subjects. Sometimes what we try to convey by way of explanation is not percieved as sent.
Moses45Actually the biggest problem was I miswired one of the autoreversers.
You have more than one autoreverser? I thought there was only one reversing section.
Frank ...Actually the biggest problem was I miswired one of the autoreversers. Thanks for your help.
Quote:
Rinker and everyone else for that matter. Thanks for your help. I got it running now. The forum is always a great place to gather knowledge.
Would be nice to know for anyone who has been following this thread, for you to say How you got it running again, crossed wires? Insulated joiners?
Just a courtesy to others.
Respectfully!
Frank
Moses45 Rich. Thanks for your help. Rest assured I wont bother you again. I wired it exactly as your diagaram showed. God bless.
Rich. Thanks for your help. Rest assured I wont bother you again. I wired it exactly as your diagaram showed. God bless.
It was no bother at all, just disappointed that you went in a different direction.
Rich
Alton Junction
Should be able to get away with just gapping both ends of the track that runs through the bottom middle. No other gaps. Unless that stretch of track is not long enough to contain a complete train.
Both rails gapped on the left where that center track diverges, and the second set of gaps in that same track on the right about where the words "double gap here" are to label the circle. The gaps in that crossover would be unecessary.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Moses45,
Wow, I am disappointed to say the least.
We had this all worked out, or so I thought, in late February when we exchanged emails and track diagrams.
I had even showed you where to gap rails and how to wire the AR-1, but you obviously did not follow my advice.
This current track diagram that you posted on this thread is not the way that I diagrammed it.
My solution did not require you to gap the center of the crossover because there would have been no reverse polarity there. But the way you gapped and wired did create a point of reverse polarity there.
I must have been talking to myself. Oh well.
Not surprised that you are still having problems.
Mark R. You need double plastic joiner in the areas I've indicated below...
You need double plastic joiner in the areas I've indicated below...
Actually, he's fine where he has them(he actually has one set too many looking at it one way), though your method will also work. If his A's and B's are his feeders, then his problem is he has some feeders swapped.
You need double plastic joiner in the areas I've indicated below. Your Auto-Reverser will still be good where it is ....
The feeders to the internal loop ALL need to be fed AFTER the Auto-Reverse module.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
You do have a reverse loop, but it looks like you have accounted for that. It does look like you have some feeders swapped. This would be much easier to discuss if you numbered your turnouts or did something else to easliy identifiy areas on the plan but, I digress - start around the middle of the left hand side where you have "both tracks insulated here". The left hand track has "reverser" labeled on it, so I assume it is connected to a reverser, and "insulated here" before it gets to the next turnout. So far so good. As you follow the right hand track around, starting at the "both tracks insulated here" label, the "A" and "B" labels swap sides of the track.
Yes, you have a reverse loop. The turnout on the left side where it says "Both tracks insulated here" feeds a reverse loop that runs all the way around to the upper right corner.
By "when I try to use it," do you mean when you run trains over that turnout, or do you mean every time you power it on? If it's just at that turnout, an autoreverser is your solution. Otherwise, though, you've got a wire crossed somewhere and you'll have to find it.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Here is the layout. When I try to use it it shorts out.
]http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p711/iwasgr8/virginian_zps5c6624a2.jpg
MisterBeasley Extending out your original segment of a track diagram, does the track loop back on itself? That is, if the train heads to the right on the top track, does it return from the right on the bottom track? If so, that crossover is creating a reverse loop and you need an auto-reverser to run through the loop automatically without a short.
Extending out your original segment of a track diagram, does the track loop back on itself? That is, if the train heads to the right on the top track, does it return from the right on the bottom track? If so, that crossover is creating a reverse loop and you need an auto-reverser to run through the loop automatically without a short.
Yep, that would be a situation similar to the second or third diagram that I drew up above. While I showed connecting track on the right side of that crossover, the same thing would be true for connecting track on the left side of that crossover.
Show us more !
Moses45 I have a layout that includes the section below. It is 2 turnouts with 3 feet of flextrack between them. Depending on the switch position it shorts. Would an autoreverser on the straight track solve the problem. Do I need insulators at each end of the straight piece?
I have a layout that includes the section below. It is 2 turnouts with 3 feet of flextrack between them. Depending on the switch position it shorts. Would an autoreverser on the straight track solve the problem. Do I need insulators at each end of the straight piece?
Which way does it short?
As maxman pointed out, without a complete track diagram, it is next to impossible to give helpful advice.
If you are using Peco Insulfrogs for that crossover, there is no need for gaps and there will be no shorts. Period.
So, something else is wrong, either crossed feeders or a reversing section.
Your diagram included with your post shows the position of Rails A and B. To avoid shorts where there is no reversing section, you need to be sure that your feeder wires are not crossed. As an example, if your bus wires are colored red and black, use red and black feeder wires. That way, you are less likely to cross those feeders wires which will create a short.
A reversing section, on the other hand, will require gaps. You can easily identify a reversing section by drawing a two rail diagram with the rails colored red and black. If red joins black and black joins red, bingo, you have a ahort due to reverse polarity.
Take a look at the diagram that follows. The top diagram is yours. The next two diagrams show connecting sections to the right. The black dot indicates correct polarity. The red dot indicates reverse polarity.
The flow of electricity should not be hard for you to understand. A color coded two-rail track diagram would simplify your track laying greatly.
Hi, Moses45
My layout started out with the earlier Shinohara code 83 turnouts that were "power routing" I have since replaced most of them with the variety known as "all live" like the old Atlas Snap Switch.
When it all boils down those are the two styles. There are certain rules applied for "Power Routing" turnouts.
1) power must be fed from the point end only (throwing the points causes the diverging route to be the same electrical potential so if you have a feeder beyond the points without a gap you will have a short)
2) any rail that connects FROG to FROG (as depicted in your diagram) must be gapped. It can only be one gap OR you can have a gap close to each frog then you would need a feeder for the 36" of flex track between the turnouts.
If you indeed have Peco insulfrogs, these should be "all live" and should require no insulating gaps as they are shown in your diagram. Perhaps you have inadvertantly made a reverse loop?
Alan Gartner's site has a very helpful dissertation on turnout wiring.
http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches.htm
Study the diagrams here and it will all become quite lucid... Ed
Thanks Max. I am learning in little bites. I have a hard time picturing the flow of electricity thru turnouts. But, I have learned something from you. If 2 tracks are paralell and wired the same, then the switch should not short. It may be that at some point I may have to use insulators on my Peco TO's. It is a matter fo trial and error for me. Every time I screw up, I learn something.
Rich, these are Peco. I have removed all BUSS wires and am going around the layout section by section by disconnecting track and using alligatore clips to power each section. Each good section is then attached to the last good section. Then I isolate the next section and so on. Everyone has helped me out on the forum, but in the end you have to figure it out for yourself. I am a retired design engineer from a Fortune 500 company, and I am ashamed to say I never really understood electricity. But, I am lerarning.
These are Peco Insulfrog.
When you are building any track work, use a buzzer with a battery. When the buzzer produces a sound, you have produced a short. STOP, you need to put one track insulator some where. When you work with a piece of track that is considered to be "autoreversing" then, four insulators are needed. (This is a completerly isolated BLOCK!)
Bob
Website: http://bobfrey.auclair.com
Sounds to me like your using a type of turnout that feeds the rails beyond the frog based on the position of the points - Shinohara and some Peco are like this. The cure is to place an insulated joiner on both rails just beyond the frog and add appropriate feeders to the main where necessary.
maxman is right. If A and B represent the two rails, there is no reversing section. Are you crossing feeders again.
If not, what kind of turnouts are you using?
You only need a reverser if you have a ballon loop or other track configuration where a track loops back on itself. You have not provided a track plan where we could search for such a configuration.
It is more likely that you need some gaps or insulators installed between the turnouts. What type of turnouts/manufacturer are you using?