I'm a newby with DCC and sound decoders, but I'm ready to buy some new DCC equiped locomotives. Does anyone have any good experience with the QSI Titan? I'm wondering if it is worth it to purchase a DCC ready loco and install the Titan vs. getting a loco that has a Soundtraxx or other sound decoder already installed? I'm willing to spend a little extra money and do the installation myself, if the sound is that much better.
Also, most of the loco's would be first gen diesels, which would probably mean only one speaker for some of the units, which obviously wouldn't be stereo. I did read on the QSI site about how important the speaker installation dynamics are.
I was going to try a Titan decoder in one of my steamers. Until I really took a good hard look. The Titan U is a very large decoder that has wiring harnesses for 10 functions. Unless you can use the Titan A the U would be very very hard to fit into a first gen diesel. While I do have a number of QSI equipped locomotives that run and sound good. If the Titan U was not so big I would have tried it.
If you really want to try a sound instal, May I suggest a Loksound Select. They have very good sound and superior motor control. Easily customized using CVs where a stand alone programmer is not needed.
Buying a sound equipped loco is almost always cheaper and most sound very good right out of the box.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
I had a professionally installed two steam locos with Titan decoders and duel speakers. They sound great, but the motor control is horrible. I have one, that no matter what I do, I've tried every kind of voltage start setting and speed curve table, and to no avail, it jumps on speedstep 1 like a Tyco engine.
Not only that, but when I used JMRI Decoder Pro for programming all the CVs. On both of them, sometimes the settings didn't take, or it will lose other settings. It was a horrible experience trying get the Titans to a point where I was somewhat satisfied.
I will no longer be buying the Titans again. I have several older QSI quantems and they perform great.
Save yourself the headaches, and just buy the DCC with Sound.
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
I put a Titan U in a Bachmann EM-1, and it took hours of setting parameters to get the low-speed control decent. The tech manual is a must to do this because of the interactions, and I think this is a major drawback of the U. I know the problem was not with the engine, as it ran quite nicely with the original Soundtraxx (silent) decoder. Would help if QSI explained the parameters better, and had suggested settings for popular engines.
Hal
Go with a Soundtraxx pre-equipped. I have three of those and work really well. I also put a Soundtraxx Tsunami AT in a DC engine as well, and that works well too.
After installing around 35 chips and buying locos OEM equipped with chips, I would say go with Tsunami for diesel or steam. I have found that I get a LOT better sound when I upgrade the speaker install on most OEM sound equipped locos. I usually use 2 speakers with my installs/upgrades. The OEM speaker system on Atlas locos using their teepee is very good though. I like the F11 braking on Soundtraxx, that along with the momentum can make operating the loco seem realistic. I don't think the F11 braking is available on the value line some OEMs are using however.
Richard
For diesel, you might want to also consider Loksound. I bought a VO-660 sound chassis with a Loksound Select and the horn was very good, "playable", and the motor control was excellent. A similar sound chassis outfitted with a Tsunami decoder yielded a horn that was horrible and flat and a motor control that was not very good.
I'm more into great motor control than I am sound but the sound from the above Loksound decoder makes it a pleasure to listen to - in moderation.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
QSI's advertising (read "hype") far exceeds their capabilities. They are still using their original pitch-bent sound files and their documentation is poor at best.
The QSI Yahoo Group is thread after thread of problems and complaints and lack of support.
Now - That being said, I'm sure there are many happy individuals using the Titan decoders. Most threads on forums are usually complaints and problems .... not too many people posting thread after thread on how much they like a product. However, I tend to look at the amount of complaints and problems, and it seems as though a LOT of people have them with QSI decoders.
Kind of like the feedback system on Ebay. If a person has a lot of sales and only one or two negatives, I would probably still buy from them. But if a person has a large number of negatives, chances are pretty good that person won't see any of my business no matter how many positives he has.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
Hi Pirate
Check out the comparitive testing I've done with the Titan using soon to be released beta sound files:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MVphAIEq2A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHI_4wfbUKA
The Titan equipped ALCO has not had any adjustments regarding motor control. If you do decide to equip more than a couple locomotives with the Titan decoder I woulod recommend purchasing the QSI Programmer. It makes necessary adjustments and software updates to your Titan a snap.
Erik Fiske
I couldn't fix your brakes, so I made your horn louder
Mark R. QSI's advertising (read "hype") far exceeds their capabilities...Now - That being said, I'm sure there are many happy individuals using the Titan decoders.
QSI's advertising (read "hype") far exceeds their capabilities...Now - That being said, I'm sure there are many happy individuals using the Titan decoders.
I have a Q2 sound decoder in my Atlas HH660 switcher and it's a great running and sounding locomotive. The motor control is even slightly better than the Loksound decoders - i.e. <1 sMPH.
That video comparison there - sorry, Tsunami.
Time marches on, since the Tsunami was conceived, QSI had been through 3 generations of updates. ESU has been through 3 or 4 generations of updates. Simple momentum settings get engine load-up effects without resorting to manual notching ont he others, not Tsunami,. The others support CV2/6/5 for simple speed matching. Not Tsunami.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I have had two Titan-U's installed in two different locos. The first returned to me was the BlueLine A Class 2-6-6-4. Ran perfectly as returned to me, and it sounds wonderful. Slow speed is just great, exactly what I want for my heavy steam.
The second installation, delayed due to a lost-in-the-mail decoder, sounds every bit as good. However, I had to load up CV2 with a ton and three-quarters of voltage for V-Start.. But the loco is a Spectrum Heavy Mountain, and if there is one thing that gets cast around the forums about Spectrum steam, it is that they need a really good break-in. I haven't done that. Once I do, I suspect the V-Start voltage will be dialled down a great deal.
Crandell
I have 2 factory installed Atlas QSI in MP15s. Everything is great but the most important thing to me, the prime mover sound! This does not sound like a diesel in a locomotive! So from then on Tsunamis all the way ( I have now about 30). Even the MRC Brilliance for the SD40 & MP15 sound MUCH better than the QSI cell phone sound &, I am happy with the few I have of the MRCs too. I decided to give QSI Titan a chance, I ordered two. Sent them right back for 2 Tsunamis. Same unrealistic diesel sound. You just cant go wrong with Soundtraxx Tsunami. The best period. I do use QSI speakers. I use Tonys train exchange speaker info. You must build an enclosure or buy one for much better sound. Always add reverb to Tsunamis horns.
I have a couple Tsunamis in diesels. Never added reverb to the horns. How much should I add, and what improvement would I get? They sound OK as is.
rrinker That video comparison there - sorry, Tsunami. Time marches on, since the Tsunami was conceived, QSI had been through 3 generations of updates. ESU has been through 3 or 4 generations of updates. Simple momentum settings get engine load-up effects without resorting to manual notching ont he others, not Tsunami,. The others support CV2/6/5 for simple speed matching. Not Tsunami. --Randy Randy :I'm not shure I'M following ,are you saying tsunami is a good thing or are you saying its behind the times ? with all respect ...Jerry
The tsunami has several problems with the diesel lighting. Also they move before they notch up. (Non prototypical)
The startup on the QSI Titan diesels sounds fantastic. It's quite realistic. I even saw a video where they offered continous notching (which is necessary for some first gen diesels)
As others have said, QSI decoders are considerably harder to program. If you wish to work with them I recommend the QSI programmer, which makes things considerably easier (including setting low speed control)
Disclaimer: I have 5 Titans total...but they are all steam. Everything I saw reguarding diesels comes from videos and online reviews.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
So, is the QSI Programmer the cure-all to these QSI power issues? It seems like kind of a hefty price tag ($104) for something you think would be free. I mean, it's to fix their products, after all.
I'm saying they are a bit behind the times. When they originally released the specs for them, the competition was mostly themselves - those old DSD decoders had horrible motor control, not even high frequency drive so they tend to buzz, n goodies like an equilizer or reverb, etc. The Tsunami when annouced was light years beyond anything existing at the time. But then it was delayed a number of years, and the competition did not just sit still and wait.
In the Tsunami price range, I think both ESU and QSI have superior motor control, the lack of need to use a full speed table unless you are super picky is a great option lacking in Tsunami, the simple addition of momentum to either one fo those gets you prime mover loading which Tsunami doesn't do unless you manually notch, and replaceable sounds - that's a big one. Not necessarily the ability to edit individual sounds like a Loksound V4, just the ability to completely swap a sound se like Loksound Select and QSI. There's only one decoder for each form factor, rather than 8 or 9 each with different sound sets. Much easier for dealers, never needs to be out of stock. Plus some fo the Tsunami sounds are only available in some form factors, not all. Yes, this requires a proprietary programmer for each brand, but this is the sort of thing a dealer can provide as a value-add service - and many do, like Tony's and Ulrich. I've decided to standardize on Loksound, so it made sense for me to ge tmy own programmer, but if you buy Loksound or QSI from a dealer like Tony's they take a generic decoder and load it with your choice of sound sets from the library. For a reasonable charge you can send the decoder back and have a different sound set loaded. One example for me is the sunami steam decoder hs the whistle I need for one of my particular models in the Light Steam, but the loco is more accurately a Heavy Steam for the other sounds. Can;t do anything about it. With Loksound I cna fix that, as I did for my RS-3, the RS-3 sound set had the wrong horn, but their library contains the proper horn, with a few clicks, no sound editing, I was able to repalce the included horn with the proper one.
I know it sounds like a lot of money - wait - it is a lot of money. And for something they should be supplying in better documentation. i have two sets of the Walthers E units with QSI sound (fantastic, by the way). I tried to train myself using their documentation and was overwhelmed for many, many weeks. Still am. Look at it this way - QSI uses a two direction matrix to set up a data table for the CV's. So, one programs in a Primary and Secondary Index CV (C 49 and CV 50 and their respective values) and then the CV for effect (say CV 21 for consisting) and then the CV data value (say 252) all the while knowing that the correct CV 49 and 50 values are nowhere to be found. And then move on to CV 22 ....... you get the picture. If you will be using a lot of their Quantum decoders, then that $104 might begin to look like a good deal. Best of luck.
Pirate.
Once the decoder is set up you rarely have to change anything unless something happens to it that scrambles or corrupts the programming. Most of my 80 decoder equipped locos have never been back to a program track after they have been set up. If you do do your own sound decoder installations it is wise to revue the sound set before purchasing. Most DCC dealers can even program them for you after installation if you are not satisfied. I had gone more than ten years without any programmer and used my Power Cab for programming. If you are really up to a challenge try programming a loco with 3 decoders in it using a Lenz set 90 with version 2 software. Your talking 30 to 35 key presses to set a 2 digit address if you didn't mess up! Once I tried a Power Cab I never went back to any other programming system. There has not been a decoder (beside the cheap MRC decoders) that it would not program.
To me Erik's video comparison between the Soundtraxx and the Titan shows the Soundtraxx as a clear winner between the two. The Tsunami seemed to have a much deeper, fuller, more realistic sound. Maybe the Titan had better detail, but it didn't impress me as much. I'll agree that the horn on the Titan was much better. The test was supposed to have the same speakers in each, although the locos were different, RS11 vs. RS3 (or is it RS1?). So, I don't know if this test means anything or not?
As noted in the comments, it was the same prime mover sound in both decoders (wrong for the RS11). Actually a 244 is wrong for the other loco too which looks liek an RS1 not an RS3, but I digress.
I still say the Titan blew away the Tsunami, the Tsunami sounded like they had the microphone in a box when the recorded it, the notching up and intermediate sounds on the Titan sounded more like recordings of Alcos in use when compared to Youtube videos of vintage Alcos in operation (some present day on the Susquehanna RR - where at least one of the manufactueres got their Alco recordings). Perhaps the Tsunami sample is too post-processed, it just sounds flat. The Titan has more rumble to it, parhaps a little tweaking of the reverb and equalizer would improve the Tsunami, but there's no fixing the horn.
The main reason I thought the Tsunami sounded better in Erik's video comparison is it had much lower frequencies than the Titan. And since low frequencies in tiny speakers are hard to get, that was the main thing I noticed different in the comparison. Although Erik said he used the same speakers in each unit, we don't know anything about his speaker installation methods, and that could be critical. It's too bad he couldn't have used the same loco's with the same speaker installation.
Go with the Tsunamis, you won't be sorry. Thats all I use now (have 30+) diesel. They work great out of the package but can be adjusted for everything including the equilizer which is really neat once I got used to it. I would always add reverb to wistle (horn) function using a value of 1 (see manual - print out online). when I have a question I email soundtraxx & they answer them quickly & get the settings I want, like flashing ditch lights. They are easy to speed match. I just reduce the back EMF & thats usually all it takes. Their mobile decoders are a blessing too! QSI Titan is fine but that prime mover (cell phone sound) & programming hassles with additional stuff keeps me away. Regards Gary
franses Go with the Tsunamis, you won't be sorry...They work great out of the package.
Go with the Tsunamis, you won't be sorry...They work great out of the package.
I'm afraid that with my VO-1000 sound chassis, Gary...neither was the case. The only thing I thought that sounded good was the bell.
A lot of people made comments about the QSI's poor motor control.
For a long time the QSI's were shipping with Regulated Throttle Control (RTC) as the default throttle control. This is a special chip mode which adds BEMF with other abilities to aid in consisting locomotives realistically without them fighting one another.
The problem is the BEMF parameters have to be manually adjusted for each locomotive. And probably most people didn't realize this when they ordered it.
When I ordered my titan's I noticed the manual had an adendum (note) that the standard mode will be standard throttle control (STC) and not regulated (RTC). STC works like a regular DCC decoder without BEMF. Putting them into my engines, I had ZERO issue getting them to creep at 1->2 smph in STC. With some tinkering RTC ran even better.
For the QSI fans out there, I have several I would like to get rid of that I replaced with Tsunami's. A couple of things.
1. Soundtraxx will reprogram the chipset for whatever sound file you want, so it's like sending it back to the dealer for a QSI.
2. The speaker size, style and enclosure are extremely important for good sound and I've improved OEM Tsunami sound a bunch by upgrading the speaker install. With QSI, I still don't get a realistic sound, even with 2) 1.25 speakers.
3. You can program QSI with JMRI just like Tsunami's. Not the sound files though.
4.Tsunami has more form factors for easier installs.
I will throw in my 2 cents. I like both. But I also love the versitility of the Titan/QSI that I can program the decoder to what ever I need it to be. Doing installs for people makes this so much easier to keep a stock of 1 decoder instead of a ordering peicemeal one at a time for each install.
Just My 2 Cents!
Sam
Since a lot of people have decided to make this an opportunity to push Tsunami decoders again, I will jump in here.
First, I will agree that many of QSI's older decoders were very hit and miss with their sound. Much of the Quantum line still is, but as to the Titans, if you have the new sound files, they are incredible. I have 5 Tsunami equipped locos, 3 Protos and 2 Genesis and I will tell you for how much extra I paid for the sound, I am less than impressed. Tsunami is definitely overdue for a hardware upgrade. The fact that they offer decoders with the same specs in both HO and N scale says it all. Their decoders simply do not provide enough watts to produce enough sound to have the horn loud enough when the prime mover is notched up. They are also the only high end decoders that you can't upload new sound files without returning them to the Factory! The QSI has 2 full watts vs. Tsunami's 1 watt or less and the Titan is 2 or 3 generations past the Tsunami, offers stereo sound and 4 times the available lighting functions making the Tsunami look very long in the tooth.
I personally am not sure where the concerns over programming motor control comes from. Everything in every QSI decoder has always been easily changable with JMRI. And even without JMRI, NCE has special programming menus built in to help program QSI decoders. I suspect that the issues, particularly with CVs losing settings and complicated CV values are when using Digitrax. There are very few complaints about programming on the NCE forum while the Digitrax forum has 1000s of QSI complaints. I always had similar problems when using Digitrax, but that went away with a switch to NCE and now I can even program speedtables on QSI units while the locomotive is running in a consist on my mainline. So, as an additional consideration about choosing the QSIs, I would say if you are using Digitrax without JMRI, I would probably choose to compromise on sound and go with the less advanced Tsunami.
I f
davidmbedardHow about you compare a QSI EMD sound file with a Tsunami sound file? David B
I just got my first titan with an EMD prime (645) It's nothing short of excellent. It doesn't have the special sound processing of Tsunami. So you can forget the reverb and custom speaker settings. But you get both manual (sound of power) and automatic notching modes. There's even a CV that will force the engine to rev up x.x seconds (CV56.6 on QSI) before the locomotive starts moving.
I do however miss the manual notching F Key assignment that Tsunami offers (CV116). QSI's Sound of power is supposed to replace this, but it uses the throttle button to set the engine notch. When you turn it back off (F9), your engine will jump to your last sound of power throttle setting. (So you have to remember to set it back where it was before you turn it off) For example: You leave engine at speed step 16. You turn on sound of power (F9) and turn up the throttle to 64 to climb a grade. You then turn off sound (F9 again), well your engine will start accelerating to speed step 64.