Hello, everybody!
I'm new here and just entered this hobby for a few months, so please forgive me if any question I asked is too simple.
I bought myself a full brass IMON HO "QJ" steam locomotive model several weeks ago and mabye some of you know, it's a simply DC motored analog SL.
I really would like to add one DCC sound decoder into it but after I deseperate the locomotive, I found there's NO main control board inside to accept the decoder.
And here is the inside view of the tender:
You can even find the holes for the sound decoder I guess?
The DCC sound decoder for "QJ" is an 8-pin one made by a Chinese brand DXDC, and after some research online, I found this item:
http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH90616
It seems that this boarder has an 8-pin decoder plug in, so could it be used as the main control board for the SL?
What should I do to connect the motor/lights original from the SL to this board?
Any one could help please? :)
Thanks a lot in advance!!
Cheers,
Yufei
I have several questions before I can recommend a decoder for your locomotive. 1. Does it have an open frame motor or a modern can motor? 2. Do you know the amp draw on straight DC?
You don't need a plug in for a decoder in fact you are better off hard wiring the decoder and lighting. The amp draw of the loco will determine how large the decoder will be. You can put the decoder and speaker in the tender or decoder in the loco and run just 2 wires to the speaker in the tender. With the decoder in the tender there will be at least 5 wires to run to the loco. Brass locos pick up rail power on one side of the loco and one side of the tender and is transmitted through the draw bar. I use micro plugs between the loco and tender and do not rely on the draw bar. Some brass locos also have a cam that can be wired to trigger the chuff sound. I would recommend looking at either the ESU Select decoder or the QSI Titan. The ESU decoder has really impressed me lately.
http://www.esu.eu/en
http://www.qsisolutions.com/
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
Hi Pete!
Thank you very much for the reply.
The motor of this loco is the Canon EN-22, and here is the picture of the motor.
I believe it's a modern can motor, right?
And here is the basic status of it:
I guess mine is the 12V one.
As for the amp draw on straight DC, sorry I don't know how to measure that.
Could you tell me please?
In most plastic steam loco, the main board is installed in the tender so I can just put the 8-pin decoder onto the board and attach the speaker all into the tender.
But there seems no access hole opened on the tender of this brass model, so I planned to put the decoder and speaker all into the loco so that I can also avoid to hide the wires to tender if I put decoder or speaker there.
Again, I thought that if I try to soldier the Athearn adapter board to the motor and the light wires, I can easily put my 8-pin sound decoder exclusively designed(I mean sounds recorded from some real "QJ" loco). Will that work please?
What do you think of my ideas? :)
Thank you!
The cannon motor is a good one and should only draw at max stalled around 1/2 amp. The board from Athearn is comparable in size to a board replacement decoder is is very large. I am not familiar with the decoder you want to use but if it has a plug with wires you would probably be better off cutting the plug off and wiring it in. It would save you tons of room and actually less wiring and fewer connections that can cause trouble. As for making access for wires into the tender that is easy. I have done it to quite a few brass locos. What I did on one of my brass switchers was to put the speaker in the tender and ran 2 wires with a micro plug through 2 drilled holes in the floor of the tender. The decoder and headlight LED is in the loco and the speaker is in the tender. http://s1081.photobucket.com/albums/j348/locoi1sa/Brass%20B6/
This loco has decoder and speaker inside the tender. I had to trim some brass sheet from under the coal bunker to pass the wires through. http://s1081.photobucket.com/albums/j348/locoi1sa/F3c%202-6-0/
Any combination will work for you. If you are dead set on using an 8 pin plug then I would look into scrounging an older Life Like plug with solder pads that they put in their GP7 and GP9 locos or any good DCC shop would have a smaller plug you could use.
Hi Pete Thanks a lot for your explanation and advice. I decide to wiring the decoder directly and would like to try to put both decoder and speaker inside the loco boiler to avoid wires between loco and tender, and drilling access holes on tender as well(since the "QJ" is a quite big monster and should have the space to hold them). One more question: I'd like to install double head lights on the "QJ", and after some Google search, I found this circuit plan for the single head lighting: http://users.tpg.com.au/barrygoo/ModelRail/KensModelTrains/Models/DCC-LEDNoFlicker.jpg (From here: http://users.tpg.com.au/barrygoo/ModelRail/KensModelTrains/Models/Brass_Mikado_2-8-2/index.html
Hi Pete
Thanks a lot for your explanation and advice.
I decide to wiring the decoder directly and would like to try to put both decoder and speaker inside the loco boiler to avoid wires between loco and tender, and drilling access holes on tender as well(since the "QJ" is a quite big monster and should have the space to hold them).
One more question: I'd like to install double head lights on the "QJ", and after some Google search, I found this circuit plan for the single head lighting:
(From here:
Could you please give me advice of double head lighting circuit? I have totally no experience with the electric affairs myself...shame... Sorry for that and thank you so much for your time and experience sharing! ;) Cheers, Yufei
Could you please give me advice of double head lighting circuit?
I have totally no experience with the electric affairs myself...shame...
Sorry for that and thank you so much for your time and experience sharing! ;)
Yufei, a couple of things: the decoder should not be near a heat source if at all possible. Keep it away from the motor!!! The decoder will produce heat, and it will need to dissipate that heat. If you wedge it between the boiler mass weight and the boiler shell, it may be hard for the decoder to dissipate heat effectively. Problems. Secondly, brass and metal locomotives are sometimes poorly balanced. It can affect traction with a steam locomotive model. Placing a speaker and decoder in places where they seem to fit best may not help a steam model that is already poorly balanced. Ideally, you want the weight of the mass above the drivers evenly distributed so that all the drivers contribute maximally to the tractive effort your model can provide.
Crandell
Yufei.
The links you posted is for an older Soundtrax decoder that did not behave very good with LEDs. I have no experience with the decoder you want to use. Only the manufacture can tell you if LEDs will work with it. There are many resources on the net for wiring LEDs and decoders.
http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/nswmn2/DCC.htm One of the best DCC sites.
Thank you, Crandell and Pete!
Your advice is very useful indeed!
Anyway, I'll try to put both decoder and speaker inside the boiler firstly to see if the loco runs ideally.
If not, I'll move the speaker to the tender and you can see the tender has already got hole-opened floors there. :))
I'll report the result after trying, maybe this weekend.
Thank you again!!
locoi1sa Brass locos pick up rail power on one side of the loco and one side of the tender and is transmitted through the draw bar. I Pete
Brass locos pick up rail power on one side of the loco and one side of the tender and is transmitted through the draw bar. I
Pete, does that not mean the frame is Hot, other words the motor is not insulated?
Yufei, if the motor is not insulated from the frame you will cook the decoder as soon as you give it power. I will leave it to one of the more advanced people here to help if the motor does need to be insulated. I have never worked on brass engines.
Speaker in the boiler, where are you going to put the speaker holes? There is a reason there are holes for speakers.
Have and to the site.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
Ken.
The can motor pictured by the OP should be insulated from the frame. The older open frame motors usually has one brush holder non insulated and the motor frame is attached to the frame. Yes. Most brass locos have a hot frame and the tender chassis will also be hot. That is why you will see the plastic KD coupler boxes to insulate the coupler.
Thank you all for your suggestions indeed.
Really appreciated!
I have gathered all items I need and will start the work tomorrow evening,
Will report the achievement later on.
Thanks again!
DCC installation finished successfully!
Heres the video and thank you all for your help! :)
[media=x,800,600]http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNDM0MDg0MDA4.html[/media]
haneto DCC installation finished successfully! Heres the video and thank you all for your help! :)
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNDM0MDg0MDA4.html
I have repaired your link by adding url tags at each end and eliminating the media ones.
I note that the chuff rate for your steamer is half-speed. You will have to find the CV's to control chuff rate and double it by essentially doubling the current entered value.
Very nice steamer, and it looks very much like you have succeeded with your decoder and speaker installations. Congratulations!!
Good looking loco and nice job on the decoder instal. Two thumbs up for you.
The loco seems to jump start. Can low speed be adjusted? Also Crandell noticed the chuff timing. This could be a pain sometimes to get right. I did not notice if the headlight was on.
Keep up the good work.
Thanks a lot for the encouragement!
I did not notice the chuff sound myself, either.
Will find the CV and try to adjust that.
And about the low speed status, it's also a problem that annoying me.
I seperared the loco after installing at first and found the head light wire standard in the way so that the axis between motor and gear box is disturbed.
But after the adjustment, there's still no much obvious improvement.
Any other suggestions please?
This decoder was actually designed for Bachmann,s plastic QJ so maybe it does need some adjustment.
By the way, the head light function is no problem.
But since there is a big metal weight in the front of boiler, so I couldn't change the lamp with LED.
But have to leave it in the original condition.
And the reverse light cannot light up because there's no lamp in it and there's no hole for lamp or LED pass through the base.