can you power a tortise with an AC and if using DC does the switch have to have a center off position
KHM60 can you power a tortise with an AC and if using DC does the switch have to have a center off position
No, you need DC for a Tortoise.
And no, you don't need a center off if using DC. The Tortoise is a stall motor machine, and the continuous power keeps the points thrown against the stock rail.
Tortoise instructions are here: http://www.circuitron.com/index_files/INS/800-6000ins.pdf
And Tortoise application notes are here: http://www.circuitron.com/index_files/Page635.htm
Regards
KHM60can you power a tortise with an AC
Yes. You must add diodes with AC.
KHM60and if using DC does the switch have to have a center off position
No. These are "stall motors".
All your questions are answered in the downloadable instruction sheet on the Circuitron site.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
maxmanNo, you need DC for a Tortoise.
Unless you add the steering diodes to an AC source as noted on the Circuitron instructions (Option 3).
cuyama maxman: No, you need DC for a Tortoise. Unless you add the steering diodes to an AC source as noted on the Circuitron instructions (Option 3).
maxman: No, you need DC for a Tortoise.
Of course, you are correct. But then the Tortoise is technically being DC powered, is it not? I guess I assumed the question was more of a what power supply do I need, rather than what can I do to make the current power supply I have work.
All of my Tortoises are powered by DC, and I use DPDT switches but not the type with the Center Off position.
Rich
Alton Junction
thanks for the responses going to go find an old transformer that puts out dc constant
I am using a wall wart that can be set for different voltages dc. I have mine set on 9.6 v, and it handles the 11 tortise I have installed. Might have to kick it up to 12volts if I add much more to it. Used to be able to get them at Radio Shack, don't know if they still have them or not.
what is a wall wart
A wall wart is that ubiquitous little device that plugs in the wall to power everything from TVs, to computers, to appliances. You can find one to me your specific requirements and trim the end of the wires to connect to your device.
Wall Wart = Plug pack = power transformer with mains pins so it plugs into a mains outlet at the wall. kinda sticks to the wall = wall wart . alogical huh!
Alan Jones in Sunny Queensland (Oz)
cuyama KHM60: can you power a tortise with an AC Yes. You must add diodes with AC.
KHM60: can you power a tortise with an AC
That is misleading. What you have actually said is you can use AC if you use a diode bridge to change it to DC.
The tortoise operates on DC only.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Phoebe Vet cuyama: KHM60: can you power a tortise with an AC Yes. You must add diodes with AC. That is misleading. What you have actually said is you can use AC if you use a diode bridge to change it to DC. The tortoise operates on DC only.
cuyama: KHM60: can you power a tortise with an AC Yes. You must add diodes with AC.
We may be arguing semantics. Here is what Circuitron, the manufacturer, has to say:
3. AC WITH STEERING DIODES: This system utilizes a standard AC Transformer in conjunction with two diodes to provide half-wave rectified DC to the switch machines. One side of the transformer output feeds a layout bus wire as in (2) above. The other lead from the transformer is connected to two diodes, each of which then powers a panel bus which is connected to the SPDT switches. Note the polarity of the diodes. Only one wire runs from each panel switch to the respective TORTOISE. Since the system is supplying only half-wave DC, the voltage of the transformer should be 14 - 16 volts to compensate.
KHM60 what is a wall wart
Circuitron offers its own wal wart to power the Tortoise. Scroll down to the bottom of the page on the link:
http://www.circuitron.com/index_files/Tortoise.htm
"Misleading"? Surprised folks want to argue a simple point. The Original Poster asked about AC as if he had an AC power supply available and hoped to use it. The Circuitron documentation offers a way to use AC.
I merely pointed that out.
" Since the system is supplying only half-wave DC, the voltage of the transformer should be 14 - 16 volts to compensate."
I rest my case.
It's still an AC pwoer supply powering the 'system' when using the steering diode method.
Never a bunch of people more caught up in semantics than model railroaders. OK, what EXACT technical details, the Tortoise motor uses DC only. But you can control them from an AC power supply using steering diodes. All the non-DCC controlled ones on my friend's layout operate this way with a 12V AC power bus around the perimeter of his layout.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Yep, when all is said and done, what the OP needs to know is that he needs a DC power supply and that a Center Off switch is not necessary.
ANd here we go confusing people about electricity again, no, he does not need a DC power supply he can use his AC supply and a couple of diodes.
No center off, that is correct.
rrinker ANd here we go confusing people about electricity again, no, he does not need a DC power supply he can use his AC supply and a couple of diodes. No center off, that is correct. --Randy
Randy,
What I am saying is that, for the OP's purposes, it is best to advise him that a DC power supply is the answer for him.
I don't know the OP, but I would bet that he doesn't even know what steering diodes are. I was merely trying to simplify things for him.
Geesh, for such a simple initial question, this thread has really gotten contentious.
LION powers his with AC current which passes through TWO transformers to drop the voltage to 12 vac, and then passes through TWO rectifiers, so that I have THREE wires out. One wire is (+)12vdc; the second wire is (-)12vdc, across these two conductors is 24vdc. The third conductor is ground, and that is HEAVILY grounded to the building ground system. (ask me to show you THAT sometime!--This ground conductor follows around the entire layout.
In my switch control machine there is both +12vdc (Green) and -12vdc (Red) Single pole double throw (micro) switches select one or the other with the output on the switch common.
This output controls panel indicators, the switch machine, any wayside signals connected to the switch machine, and any extra relays for routing track power or local signal logic as may be required at that location. ONLY ONE WIRE connects the control to the controlled.
In case of power failure we have a 100KV generator on a five second standby.
And you thought *I* could make a simple railroad! HA!
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
100KV generator ? Do you power it with a hydro dam or a coal plant?
Phoebe Vet 100KV generator ? Do you power it with a hydro dam or a coal plant?
Actually, it is Diesel powered. Our primary boiler is coal fired, our old #1 boiler does not pass inspection any more, and I am not sure we will put any money into it. We just installed a new gas fired back-up or summer boiler. It has more rated HP than the coal boiler, but burning coal saves us about $200/day on our heating bills.
Once upon a time (think 1910-1920) we *were* the power company for the city of Richardton.
In the 20s MDU came in with real, genuine AC power, but we kept our DC running into the 1960s, albeit we also used AC from MDU.
I was looking at the breakers up on the power pole on the street. 100Amps each... But then that is on the 4000 volt side of the transformer ☺
Presently our normal power loadings are about 20-25 KW; but on Sunday when the church is all lit up loadings go up to about 45-50 KW.
ROAR
Are you positive that you don't mean 100 KW ?
Phoebe Vet Are you positive that you don't mean 100 KW ?
Right. THAT is what I mean.
LOL That's what I thought.
But, I had a part time job flying line patrol for Niagara Mohawk Power company years ago. I have actually seen 100 KV lines.
In fact, in over 25 years of using stall motors for turnouts I have come to prefer the AC power method. Why? Because if one wants to control a turnout from several different locations it only takes one wire from each of the locations directly to the turnout. This might not sound like much but consider the situation where one has a massive yard with multiple control panels for it. Each panel can control the turnouts indpendently. One does not have to run two wires for each turnout between each panel. I tried that once - not fun. The panels do not have to be the same type. I have mixed panels with traditional SPDT with single button route diode matrix type. Way cool.
Someone will be sure to point out that the tortiose is supposed to have constant power, but this has not been a problem. When I first installed a trial system using this manner of control not one operator noticed it. There were zero instances of point creep. I might even be leary of putting constant power on them, because as someone else already pointed out it would be half wave power. That could cause heating issues. If one is going the DC route get the most pure filtered DC power supply availalble.
Texas Zepher If one is going the DC route get the most pure filtered DC power supply availalble.
If one is going the DC route get the most pure filtered DC power supply availalble.
I use MRC Railpower 1370 power packs as the source for all of my Tortoises. I have four of them evenly distributed throughout the layout to power 60 Tortoises.
TZ, when you say to get the most pure filtered DC power supply available, what exactly does that mean? If the MRC Railpower 1370 power pack such an animal?
Since the Tortoise motors stall at the end of travel, if the DC isn;t filtered they will tend to amplify any AC 'buzz' that comes through. Two ways to reduce this are to lower the voltage (they don;t really need a full 12 volts to oeprate well - 9V works good, or 12V with some series LEDs for indicators) or to filter and smooth out the DC power to it truly is smooth (as close to a battery as you can make it). The Railpower power pac is not filtered DC. Very few DC power packs filter the output, because the slight variation int he unfiltered DC helps start and runt he loco's motor at a slower speed. Taken to a more extreme level are the power packs which deliberately add in an AC pulse component for pulse power. Super sophisticated pwoer packs DO use filtered DC and then inject a variable AC pulse for starting.
ANyway, with respect to a Tortoise, the quietest operation would be from a well-filtered power supply, but a more simple one isn't going to hurt them. Try running a Tortoise on a 9V battery - pretty quiet despite the dozen gears in the internal gear train.
what size walwart for 16 tortoises' 500ma 800ma 1500 ma thanks