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DCC In Rivarossi 4-6-2

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  • Member since
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  • From: Southern California
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DCC In Rivarossi 4-6-2
Posted by New Haven I-5 on Saturday, June 4, 2011 4:27 PM

I have a Rivarossi 4-6-2 (newer model with red box & plastic packaging) that I'd like to add DCC to. I think it has a can motor, and it doesn't have the older motor that stick out of the cab. How would I go about doing this?

- Luke

Modeling the Southern Pacific in the 1960's-1980's

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  • From: Western, MA
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Posted by richg1998 on Saturday, June 4, 2011 5:45 PM

Right now I have to figure you have not done any DCC so far. No mention if it has a 8 pin or 9 pin DCC connector inside the tender. It can be considered easy for various values of easy.

Remove both wires from the motor. Take say a Digitrax DZ125 and connect it like below.

Red, right rail

Black left rail

Orange plus motor lead

Gray negative motor lead

To determine plus and minus leads for motor before connecting the decoder, connect a 9 volt battery to the motor and look for forward movement of the drivers.

White and blue headlight if bulb. 1k resistor in series with one lead if LED. Which lead the resistor is in is not important.

Insulate all leads.

http://www.mrdccu.com/curriculum/Lighting/LED.htm

Real ALL is stuff if not familiar with DCC.

Rich

 

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by richg1998 on Saturday, June 4, 2011 5:54 PM

New Haven I-5

I have a Rivarossi 4-6-2 (newer model with red box & plastic packaging) that I'd like to add DCC to. I think it has a can motor, and it doesn't have the older motor that stick out of the cab. How would I go about doing this?

Red and plastic packaging does not tell much about the l;oco. Is this from a LHS or private sale? Do you have any paper work with it?

Have you opened the tender?

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by New Haven I-5 on Saturday, June 4, 2011 6:03 PM

It has all paperwork. It has tender pickups and no 8 or 9 pin plugs.

- Luke

Modeling the Southern Pacific in the 1960's-1980's

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Western, MA
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Posted by richg1998 on Saturday, June 4, 2011 6:15 PM

The eight pin connector might be in the loco. Have you opened the loco? Does the paper work show the inside of the loco?

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

  • Member since
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  • From: Southern California
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Posted by New Haven I-5 on Saturday, June 4, 2011 6:27 PM

I've opened it and there's no 8 pin connector that I can see.

- Luke

Modeling the Southern Pacific in the 1960's-1980's

  • Member since
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  • From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
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Posted by cacole on Saturday, June 4, 2011 7:10 PM

Does the tender have to be connected to the locomotive for it to run?  Rivarossi made several incarnations of their steam engines over the years -- some had no electrical pickups from the tender, some picked up power from one rail through the tender and transferred it to the motor through a small spring wire that was part of the drawbar, and some had electrical pickups in the tender only for a backup light.

If your model is one of the ones that will run without the tender, a small decoder such as a TCS M-1 can be installed in the locomotive and mounted to the top of the motor with double-sided white foam tape. 

Before more detailed instructions can be provided, we need to know which version you have.

When you say "newer model" do you mean one made in China after Rivarossi was bought my Hornby of England?   If so, all bets are off because I have never owned one of them.

 

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Posted by New Haven I-5 on Saturday, June 4, 2011 8:08 PM

It has to have the tender to run.

- Luke

Modeling the Southern Pacific in the 1960's-1980's

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Posted by cacole on Saturday, June 4, 2011 9:29 PM

A little more information, please:

Are the instructions in English, Italian, or "Chinglish" -- i.e., Chinese English that reads like someone just looked up each word in a Chinese/English dictionary without regard to any grammar rules.  For example, "Just hold push hammer and power it."

Does it say "Made in China" on the box or on the bottom of the loco, or anywhere on the instructions, or  "Made in Italy"? 

Is there a silver colored wire on the bottom of the tender drawbar that must make contact with a metal pin on the back of the locomotive?

Are there any wires at all between the locomotive and tender?

Does the tender have a working backup light?

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Posted by New Haven I-5 on Saturday, June 4, 2011 10:34 PM

Instructions are in Italian & it is made in Italy. The silver wire you are speaking of is there. Also, there's no backup light & no wires going between the tender & locomotive. Thanks!

- Luke

Modeling the Southern Pacific in the 1960's-1980's

  • Member since
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Posted by AustraliaJim on Sunday, June 5, 2011 6:11 AM

Luke, a Rivarossi Loco in a red box with plastic insert can still be twenty years old! I've converted quite a few Rivarossi loco's like you've described with the motor in the boiler and motor in the cab. I've found the best decoder is the Lenz Gold with the Power 1 Module. All the "older" Rivarossi loco's suffer from poor power pick-up. The Lenz Power 1 Module will help this greatly but I also fitted extra power pick-ups to the drivers and all the tender wheels. Also add weight to the loco and tender, this will also help with power pick-up. My favourite Riv loco 4-6-4 streamlined Hiawatha will run 6" over a paper towel on the tracks without stopping or the head light blinking. One more thing Luke, it is a time consuming task to fit decoders to older Rivarossi loco's and make them run well. Unless the loco is your favourite or it's a hard to get model I would seriously think of selling it and buying something newer with a decoder already installed. I had about eight Rivarossi loco's, I now have two!

Cheers

 

Jim

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Posted by cacole on Sunday, June 5, 2011 9:06 AM

Okay, your description indicates that what you call a "newer" locomotive is in fact very old.  The tender wheels pick up power from one rail, and the locomotive's drive wheels pick up from the other rail.

The most troublesome part of this scheme was the spring wire under the tender drawbar not making good electrical contact with the metal pin at the rear of the loco, but there's not much that can be done to correct this problem short of adding some type of additional wiring between the locomotive and tender.  

For decoder installation, you need to remove the boiler from the frame.  This is usually accomplished by removing the front pony truck and a long screw under it that goes up through the cylinders and into the boiler.

There will be 4 black wires soldered to the tabs at the back of the motor.  The motor is already isolated from the frame, so nothing special is required to install a decoder.  Two of those wires are for power pickup from the locomotive wheels and tender, and the other two go to the headlight.

Unsolder and remove the wires from the motor.  A small decoder such as the TCS M-1 should be used.  Solder the decoder's orange and gray wires to the motor tabs; orange to the right side and gray to the left.

Separate the black wires that were soldered to the motor and try to determine which ones go to the headlight.  Two of the wires probably go down toward the wheels and the other two go forward on the top of the frame -- these latter two are the headlight wires.

Solder the decoder's black wire to the wire that goes down to the left side of the frame, and the red wire to the right side wire.

The headlight is a 16 Volt incandescent bulb that needs no resistor.  Solder the decoder blue wire to one, and the white wire to the other.  Insulate this solder splice with heat shrink tubing.

Stick the decoder to the top of the motor with white double-sided foam tape or Kapton tape, and reassemble the model.

 

  • Member since
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Posted by bavrail on Sunday, June 5, 2011 12:00 PM

Here is a link to some info on installing a decoder into an Atlas/Rivarossi 4-6-2

http://www.raybob.boche.net/  - Click on DCC pages and then on the Atlas/Rivarossi 4-6-2

 

 

WS

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Posted by cacole on Sunday, June 5, 2011 9:03 PM

That link is to an N scale model, which is NOT the same as the HO scale one at all.

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Posted by bavrail on Monday, June 6, 2011 11:23 AM

Since the original post never mentions HO and I happen to model in N, I provided the info I had. I guess I will not respond to any more posts so I don't get chastised.

WS

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Posted by Fastball on Monday, June 6, 2011 11:29 AM

Hey Bav,

I'm an N scaler too and you can respond to my posts all you want!

-Paul

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Posted by richg1998 on Monday, June 6, 2011 1:53 PM

bavrail

Since the original post never mentions HO and I happen to model in N, I provided the info I had. I guess I will not respond to any more posts so I don't get chastised.

Don't take it personal. The are quite a few clueless here who come in and do not know how to properly ask a question. Kind of sounds like some who ask, My train does not go. What is wrong with it? Notice all the lack of info?

Usual best to ask them for details before commenting. I "assumed" a relatively new loco. I sure was off.

Many have no idea of what is required in DCC and try to jump right into a DCC install. Yes, some installs are easy, for various values of easy. Some cannot even get the shell off the loco or tender and have to be led by the hand.

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: The Villages, Fl
  • 59 posts
Posted by bavrail on Monday, June 6, 2011 6:34 PM

Paul and Rich. Thanks.

WS

  • Member since
    May 2011
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Posted by Fastball on Monday, June 6, 2011 11:44 PM

There should be some sort of check box system on the message box so if you are talking about HO then you check the HO box, N scale then check the N box, Lionel then check the toy box, etc.  Then there won't be any more misunderstandings.

-Paul 

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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, June 7, 2011 6:39 AM

 Or people just need to remember that while HO has the most, it doesn't have ALL and it's important to specify when asking about parts, maintenence, or things like decoder installs since it DOES matter.

            --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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