NCE Doesn't Run

[tstage]

Steve,

I believe it will test both 8- and 9-pin decoders - no matter what brand it is.  Here's a helpful link for enhancing the NCE decoder tester from Tony's Train Exchange web site.

Tom

[HAZMAT9]

Thanks for the info Rich, does it just test NCE decoders or is it versatile on others? 

[richhotrain]

Sorry, I just noticed it is out of stock at Hobbylinc. 

Here it is in stock at MB Klein and even cheaper.

http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=decoder+tester&Search.x=16&Search.y=8

Rich

[richhotrain]

HAZMAT9

Well folks my Atlas Trainmaster is finally rolling though the front headlight isn't (the rear light works).  So I maybe have another loose wire to look at.  I carefully soldered the black wire in with an 18W soldering tool, this is a royal pain! 

Will now look into my Athearn bluebox GP-60, I did check and I made sure to isolate the frame from bottom clip w/ 3 strands of electrical tape.   At least I know now that my system is working correctly!  Will look into Rich's idea of getting the decoder reader....great advice. 

Of course I'll be back if I can't get the bluebox loco to work   Thanks Again, Steve

Steve,

Great news.  Congrats.

Here is the NCE Decoder Tester for $21.

http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/nce/nce219.htm?source=froogle

Rich

[HAZMAT9]

Well folks my Atlas Trainmaster is finally rolling though the front headlight isn't (the rear light works).  So I maybe have another loose wire to look at.  I carefully soldered the black wire in with an 18W soldering tool, this is a royal pain! 

Will now look into my Athearn bluebox GP-60, I did check and I made sure to isolate the frame from bottom clip w/ 3 strands of electrical tape.   At least I know now that my system is working correctly!  Will look into Rich's idea of getting the decoder reader....great advice. 

Of course I'll be back if I can't get the bluebox loco to work   Thanks Again, Steve

[Stevert]

tstage

Since you installed the decoder into an Athearn Bluebox locomotive, did you check to see that the trucks were isolated from the chassis before installing the decoder?

Tom, you must not be familiar with Athearn Blue Box locos.  On those locos, by default, the left-hand power pickup is routed from the truck to the frame. 

That's why insulating the lower brush clip is so important, and why the black wire in harness on the DH123AT the OP is using connects to the light bar that's riveted to the frame, etc.

So no, if the frame is isolated from the left rail, and you haven't modified the loco to make it so, then something's wrong.

[richhotrain]

tstage

Steve,

Since you installed the decoder into an Athearn Bluebox locomotive, did you check to see that the trucks were isolated from the chassis before installing the decoder?  If they aren't, your decoder may have also gone *poof!*

Do you know anyone close to you who has a "knowable" working DCC-equipped locomotive that you can borrow?  At least you'd then be able to confirm that your Power Cab is working properly.

Tom

Better yet, invest a few bucks in a decoder tester.  NCE sells one for under $30.  It works on all decoders, not just NCE. 

Test the decoder before installation to make sure that it is good, and test it again if the installation fails to make sure that you didn't burn it up.

Rich

[richhotrain]

HAZMAT9

Well Pete it's definitely been quite a day!  I'm hoping that this knocks out the problem since I did still have no response with my other DH123AT chip for my bluebox Athearn.  I'll solder it in the morning and give it a go. 

Steve

Anything short of soldering the wires to the decoder can be problematic.   Simply wrapping the bare wire around the decoder connector or using those little plastic tabs can result in loose connections and a "cannot read cv" message.  Don't ask me how I know.

Rich

[tstage]

Steve,

Since you installed the decoder into an Athearn Bluebox locomotive, did you check to see that the trucks were isolated from the chassis before installing the decoder?  If they aren't, your decoder may have also gone *poof!*

Do you know anyone close to you who has a "knowable" working DCC-equipped locomotive that you can borrow?  At least you'd then be able to confirm that your Power Cab is working properly.

Tom

[HAZMAT9]

Well Pete it's definitely been quite a day!  I'm hoping that this knocks out the problem since I did still have no response with my other DH123AT chip for my bluebox Athearn.  I'll solder it in the morning and give it a go.  Even if I have to come back I still feel that I'm pretty close to solving this either way.  Many thanks to everyone for bearing with me through all this and the great suggestions and advice.  The MR forums have always been a great source of knowledge and I've made some great friends here.  Either way on what I find, I'll send a post out on Tuesday with the results.  Best Regards,  Steve

[locoi1sa]

  Well Steve.

 You found the problem. That is great news. Fix that if you are able and you should be all set.

      Pete

[rrinker]

 Black wire is definitely needed. Here is a page which shows the pinout and which wire is which on the 8 pin connector: http://www.loystoys.com/info/nmra-plugs-and-sockets.html

 Position 3 next to the black wire is traditionally left empty, so that if you plug the 8 pin plug in backwards, nothing will get damaged - your loco will just run the wrong way - notice plugging it in backwards flips the motor leads as well as the track pickups. The track pickups have no effect on direction, however the motor wires being flipped will result in the loco moving backwards when the throttle says forwards.

 The black wire is one entire side, not one truck, so no black = no power to the deocder = no movement, no lights, no programming, no nothing.

                                             --Randy

 

[maxman]

HAZMAT9

I think I may have found a problem.  On the DH123P decoder I have the following soldered on the chip: white, yellow orange red, grey, blue.  It appears that the black wire may have come off.  There is a navy blue and green wire that look like function wires that are not connected and loose. 

In any event does this chip (to someone who knows it) have 7 wires soldered in (which would include the black)?  It seems that between the yellow and the suspected black wire is a blank.  I'm assuming that the black wire is a truck wire....but wouldn't one truck still work?.......just want to make sure before I solder it on.

If the black wire is not connected, then nothing will work.

[maxman]

HAZMAT9

I tried reversing the plug, no go.  It went in about half way and that's it.  Based on the config with the other wires it would munch up against other plugs and would never fit right with the existing wiring.  The orignal way the plug was in, it fit perfect.  No luck...worked on this all day and I'm just about at my end wits.

Just because the decoder appears to fit only one way does not necessarily mean that it is installed correctly.  I have a couple Atlas engines where I have installed decoders and they require an extender to go between the decoder and the existing light board.  An extender is basically a plug with 8 male pins on one side and 8 holes on the other side that accept the pins on the decoder.

The light board should have a little X mark or other identification that will tell you which is pin number one.  The decoder should have some corresponding marking or identification that identifies pin one on the decoder.

I'm not saying that this is what is causing your problem, but I suggest that you go back and check just to make sure.

[richhotrain]

According to the instructions for the DH123P, the black wire is the left side pick up and the red wire is the right side pick up.

The Violet and Green leads of the harness are not used by this decoder

[HAZMAT9]

I think I may have found a problem.  On the DH123P decoder I have the following soldered on the chip: white, yellow orange red, grey, blue.  It appears that the black wire may have come off.  There is a navy blue and green wire that look like function wires that are not connected and loose. 

In any event does this chip (to someone who knows it) have 7 wires soldered in (which would include the black)?  It seems that between the yellow and the suspected black wire is a blank.  I'm assuming that the black wire is a truck wire....but wouldn't one truck still work?.......just want to make sure before I solder it on.

[locoi1sa]

  Steve.

 Can not read CV means that there is a problem with the decoder or locomotive. 14.8 volts AC on the track is good. Wheels and track need to be clean and dry, Decoder needs to be plugged in solidly. All the factory wires to the light board are good and solid. Did the loco work on DC before the decoder was installed? Check the wires to the motor. If there is no motor attached then you will also get the Can Not Read CV on the power cab. Try to remove the decoder and put the jumper plug back in and see if it runs on DC. Make sure the power cab is removed from the system before turning on the DC.

     Pete

[HAZMAT9]

I did attempt all this on a short section of clean new track at the first sign of problems, no go.  I checked a/c voltages on both the layout and on the short piece of track....it read around 14.2V, so there is juice, just not reading the decoder.  This is occurring on two engines not just one.  The wheels are clean, I made sure of this.  The factory setting is 03 though I double checked and re-programmed by hitting "select engine and typing in "3."  The manual says not to use "03" though the display will default to this value.  In any event, I tried all sorts of zeros and three combos just to make sure.

[rrinker]

richhotrain

Also, for what it's worth, all Digitrax decoders are shipped with CV01 set to 03, not 3.

Rich

 

 

 

 

 The difference between the two numbers being that NCE confusing bit that 03 is a 'long' address and 3 is a 'short' address. RP for default decoder addresses is SHORT address 3.

 So make sure you key in ONLY 3 and NOT 03. However, if it cannot read the address in program mode, something else is going on. Switching to program track mode should NOT result in an error message that says the main track is turned off - of course it is, it will only do one or the other. Of course if you attempted to select Program on the Main - you can't read anything when doing Programming on the Main.

                            --Randy

 edit: ok I give up, for whatever reason it put my text in teeny tiny size, yet the next size up is far larger than it was. Oh well. Also selecting text and changing the font seems to duplicate the text,e ven though the edit area showed one copy, when I posted this there were THREE! Bug report!

[richhotrain]

I have an NCE 5 amp system with a Pro Cab, so I am not familiar with the Power Cab.

However, I would not assume that just because the Power Cab is not able to program the decoder that it is not "seeing" the decoder.

Trying to operate the Power Cab on a short section of test track makes sense.  Dirty track or wiring problems or whatever can cause the system to malfunction and not be able to read CV's including the manufacturer and version.

Also, for what it's worth, all Digitrax decoders are shipped with CV01 set to 03, not 3.

Rich

 

 

 

 

[woodone]

If the Power Cab can't read the decoder it will not run a locomotive or will it program it!

Try a short section of flex track and hook up the Power Cab track output wires to this flex track.! Make sure the track is CLEAN. Now put the locomotive on the flex track. This short section will remove any layout problems( errors)

Try to read the decoder, it should read back the manufactures ID.   Digitrax's number is 129.

If you can't read the decoder it means the Power Cab is NOT seeing the decoder. Check the wheels to make sure that they are CLEAN. You did not say or I did not read, as to whether this is a new locomotive or one that you have run on DC.  I  have seen locomotives that would run on DC but will not run with a decoder because of dirt on the wheels. 

[HAZMAT9]

I tried reversing the plug, no go.  It went in about half way and that's it.  Based on the config with the other wires it would munch up against other plugs and would never fit right with the existing wiring.  The orignal way the plug was in, it fit perfect.  No luck...worked on this all day and I'm just about at my end wits.

[HAZMAT9]

I'll give the plug a try and maybe reverse it if I can.  The loco is DCC ready.....I just plugged in the decoder and it should be ready to go.  It was an Digitrax DH123P into an HO scale Atlas Trainmaster.  I'll give the plug a try.  I'll let you know if I'm lucky.  Thanks!

[blabride]

Steve,

I get the "cannot read decoder" quite often with the Powercab but it will still let me program and run the locos. Is there a DCC ready loco you could borrow? I have found the two powercabs I have work flawlessly as long as the decoder equipped loco works. I bet your problem is in the decoder's or decoder installation.

[yankee flyer]

Hazmat

As for as saying, that the plug in will only plug in one way I'm not so sure.  About three years ago I was trying to install a plug an play and I thought some one said that It could be installed back wards an that you would get a light but the decoder would not work. Supposedly the decoder would not be hurt.
Ever since I have only hard wired decoders.
There is something else that gives me trouble. From time to time I have a problem reading a decoder and have found by checking the track plug to the back of the panel receptical, that there is a loose fit. The weight of the wires may disturb the connection.
Something else, my first loco ( Bachmann SW8) by pushing the #6 I believe, twice quickly the loco would not run untill you pushed a # again.

Good luck.  

Lee

[HAZMAT9]

I thought I'd try the "unlock" feature to unlock the decoder it said "reading cv15" ran through a bunch of numerics then gave the message "unable to unlock."  Not sure if this is pertinent.  I re-checked the decoder in my Atlas...only fits in one way right?  I can't see anything that would warrant a problem.  Don't know about programming anything...just went through the "quick start" to see if it would run and that's where I'm at.

[selector]

If you know for certain that you have it hooked up in all respects, power is on, and the tracks get normal voltage via the wires, and you know for a fact that the decoder is properly installed and functioning, and if you select address "00", and do a full CV8 Programming on the Main (or Ops Mode) reset by making its value 8 and hitting enter (or whatever the procedure is with NCE), and nothing happens, no jerk, no blinking engine lights, and it still won't respond, you are not emitting DCC signals to the rails.

Crandell

[HAZMAT9]

I hit esc X4 and got to "program track"....I selected option "1" STD and this is where I got "no main -  can not read cv" at this point I hit enter and nothing happens.  I tried putting in different combos of "3" still  nothing.

[maxman]

Connect the wires to your 3 foot long test section.  Connect the meter across the rails and see if you are reading the 14.8 volts.

Now put the Atlas unit on the same test track and see if you are still reading voltage.  If you don't read any voltage, then there is a short in the engine.  If you do still read the same 14.8 volts, then the decoder is not accepting a command from the PowerCab.

Did you do the decoder install yourself with a new decoder? If yes, the decoder should have come with a default address of 3.  If someone else installed the decoder, was the decoder programmed with the engine number?  If you are not sure of the decoder address you can try to reset the decoder.

You can also remove the loco shell and use your meter to check if the decoder is receiving voltage from the track.  And you can probably also check to see if there is voltage between the decoder and the motor.  Just be careful poking around to not cause a short across the decoder.

[ClinchValleySD40]

If you got the message "can not read cv", the system is not seeing the decoder.   When it gives you that message, what happens if you push the enter button?

Try selecting 03 instead of just 3.